Keeping in in bad weather

[pistolpete]

Ours are kept in when there is a storm (maybe 4 days for the whole of winter) as we have no shelter in the field and its exposed on the side of a valley so the bad weather whips straight through it. However they have been out every day in this ice, thankfully we have a salted yard and sandy soil so no deep ruts, without fail though they are all waiting by the gates by 12:30/1pm when usual bring in time in winter is closer to 4pm. That being said Dex still bronced a lap of the school with me during his saddle fitting....

Hacking on the other hand I haven't been able to do in weeks, from our yard you can access endless hacking either by going up the lane (quite the camber and very slippery), through a twitten (unuseable all winter as it gets deep mud) or up one of two chalk paths (death trap in the icy conditions).. so whilst we are usually very lucky, the freeze is a no-go. I have been feeling quite bad about that but have pretty much just given up riding until it all thaws out, its no fun anyway when you're cold.

I agree I’m miserable riding in the cold!

 

[Mrs B]

I don’t understand this at all, we’ve probably had considerably more snow than most people who write on here, had to properly dig out access to all doors, field gates etc, but horses do NOT damage frozen grassland in deep snow.
When it starts thawing is when they do the damage; like now, when people are saying their horses are allowed back out(?!); but if been turned out THROUGHOUT, the demented galloping nonsense doesn’t happen.
Ok, horses’ll always play and run some, and lovely to see them enjoying snow, but it’s when horses have been housed up they go stir crazy, start injuring things (including themselves!) on release.
It sounds more like yard staff don’t want the hassle of changing rugs, digging out gates, ensuring field water and trekking through snow, but if owners are able to do all that, what’s the problem?
I love riding in snow, always have, and much safer on a horse whose experience enables him to deal with it.

Sounds like you're in the US or similar?

That's fine if you have dry snow - mine stays in for a day if the snow is shallow & wet as it immediately packs into 4-inch wedges, which can only be prised out with a hoof pick.

 

[Marigold4]

I lived and worked in Sweden on an arab stud. Horses out in the snow everyday, in at night. I rode most days in the snow - it was amazing!

 

[SEL]

I suppose I should give a little more background. This part livery yard had out no salt or sand down in the car park. Hadn’t salted the mounting block. When I asked if it could be done the answer was you shouldn’t be riding! The schools (2) were both not frozen but there was no thought about getting any of the horses out anywhere. I just think it’s so sad for the horses to get so wound up.

Once on a livery yard I turned up with a bag of the sandy salt stuff and quietly gritted the path from my stables to the verge on the path to my field. The staff were furious because they said if everyone did that they'd have to turn out. The fields were deep snow so very safe, just the tarmac that was horrible.

So my 2 went out but they were the only ones in a yard of 40. I did say to the staff it was 100% my responsibility and I'd do both ends of the day.

 

[94lunagem]

I totally agree those of us who have the luxury of making our own decisions, not driven by other liveries/yard owners, are fortunate.

Mine live out and stayed out, I’m usually firmly in the ‘they won’t melt’ brigade but I did stick light rugs on between Saturday morning for the rest of the week while we were -6. They have loads of natural shelter and I made sure they always had plenty of hay which I don’t normally put out in normal weather. Fields were well frozen underfoot but as they were in their normal routine they didn’t have anything to get silly about.

I gritted various paths around the yard before it snowed and kept it topped up all week. I’m also fortunate that I have both a hot tap and a kettle in my yard kitchen so I didn’t have to lug water further from the house.

I think a key factor in mine being out is that they stayed out, I’m not sure I’d have fancied bringing in and out, even on a gritted path. I can understand those with horses who wouldn’t stay out for the duration deciding to leave in.

 

[I'm Dun]

Theres a huge difference between not turning out for a few days due to extreme conditions, and having them in all winter with no turnout at all. With livery yards its always a compromise. If you have decent winter turnout apart from when its thick ice or snow, then that's a compromise I think most people could live with.

 

[nikkimariet]

Having been at a yard which stopped turn out early on in the year I can say it is really rubbish To ride Rooni was great and he’s a bit of a fair weather child so he didn’t care about being in whilst the weather was awful. He is used to the odd day in here or there.

But when the sun was shining and the sky was clear and we’re waiting for fields to dry/thaw that was when I did feel dreadful… I would have done anything to even let him have just 30 minutes in that boggy muddy pit

My issue was that he became borderline dangerous to hand walk. A lamb in the stable but as soon as you ventured from the barn…! Farm machinery + ungated yard = not worth the risk eventually. Not to mention it was hard work doing a full stable twice a day.

Fortunately we are now back in a situation where I’m calling the shots. There was probably 2 days they didn’t go out? Even my sandy soil fields have got ruts and craters but it was more the extreme wind/rain that swayed my decision.

 

[nikkimariet]

Theres a huge difference between not turning out for a few days due to extreme conditions, and having them in all winter with no turnout at all. With livery yards its always a compromise. If you have decent winter turnout apart from when its thick ice or snow, then that's a compromise I think most people could live with.

Exactly. Some of my friends haven’t turned out since the beginning of November now.

 

[southerncomfort]

I live on a hill at about 320m above sea level.

We get some pretty extreme weather at times and the previous owners in their wisdom, decided to locate the stables at the bottom of a steepish slope. The school is halfway up, and the paddocks are at the top.

The slope is surfaced with road planings and loose stone so, although we do our best to clear snow, we can't remove it all, and whatever is left freezes over at night.

When it's like that, I can get them out ok, but I can't then bring them back in down the slippery slope.

And I can't leave them out in deep, frozen snow (in a very exposed field) overnight, when it's too deep and hard to dig for grass and the mini shetland struggles to walk in it.

I tell you this just to demonstrate that our circumstances are all different, our yards and situations are all different.

We all have to make compromises during extreme weather unfortunately.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Mine will stay in quite happily. They are very good about it. Miri can be a little fresh if she’s in a few days but you wouldn’t notice a change in Mim.

At home, it’s our land so we can manage it as we choose. They are out 24/7 unless it’s relentlessly wet and then they want to come in.

On livery though, their yard, their rules. Mine will fit in with whatever the management decisions are. It give me peace of mind that they will go with the flow either way, and that they’d both box rest m too if it was needed.

I do have the luxury of bringing my horses home if I feel they need more turnout.

 

[Gloi]

Hurrah. The yard had melted enough for YO to put my lad out today. Said he was chilled about it.
He's had to move stables for now though. The pipe to the waterer had frozen but has now burst and soaked his own stable.

 

[Kirstineridesagain]

My share is out in all weathers either his mates. They’re Icelandic and even foul Scottish weather is peanuts to them.

My new mare will also be living out 24/7. But depending on exactly where she will be she will have the option of going inside when she pleases. I like that way of doing it - a big, open barn plus field, preferably like a pony paradise with slopes, trees and interesting bits. The square, flat fields look very uninspiring to me (but any turnout is better than none).

 

[pistolpete]

What can be done when your yard makes absolutely no provision for the winter weather and refuses to put horses out

See to me this is the crux. It’s like feeding or cleaning allowing some movement. If part of your deal is staff turn out and bring in then surely they could take them to the school or walk them around the field and back. Something!

 

[Kirstineridesagain]

I get the whole being at the mercy of the livery yard thing. Where I’m putting my in-foal mare, no extra feed will be given, for example. So even if I think she looks scrawny (hopefully not) she can’t be topped up with anything other than hay. Every yard has their pros and cons and quirks. But turnout should hopefully be a given, regardless of weather, at most yards.

 

[Barklands]

I live on a hill at about 320m above sea level.

We get some pretty extreme weather at times and the previous owners in their wisdom, decided to locate the stables at the bottom of a steepish slope. The school is halfway up, and the paddocks are at the top.

The slope is surfaced with road planings and loose stone so, although we do our best to clear snow, we can't remove it all, and whatever is left freezes over at night.

When it's like that, I can get them out ok, but I can't then bring them back in down the slippery slope.

And I can't leave them out in deep, frozen snow (in a very exposed field) overnight, when it's too deep and hard to dig for grass and the mini shetland struggles to walk in it.

I tell you this just to demonstrate that our circumstances are all different, our yards and situations are all different.

We all have to make compromises during extreme weather unfortunately.

This is very similar to the issue with my place. I own my yard, I’m not subject to anyone else’s rules but the design of the yard means when even when gritted it becomes like an ice rink again as the water flows down onto it - particularly when snow has been thawing in the day time.

A lot of you saying well mine are out 24/7. We will be out showing again in March/April so were brought back in again in December after having been roughed off from October. Meaning that they were stabled when all the snow came so we couldn’t even get them across the yard. Everyone’s circumstances are different so I don’t think it warrants the judgy comments for those who have had horses stuck in and have had what has overall been quite a cr*p past week.

If you’re out competing regularly it’s not exactly feasible for them to live out the whole time. I have no shame with this - mine seem to like their creature comforts anyway

 

[Boulty]

We have ice and snow from October to April and temperatures down to -30°, it's not a problem turning them out. To me it appears insane to keep horses in just because of a little ice and snow. Barefoot horses tolerate ice and snow pretty well, if really really icy you can always put on studded boots, if shoed we put on snow soles and studs. The only time they stay in is when there's a proper snow storm.

Heya which stud & boot combo do you use? Do you find it works ok even if there’s some non icey parts? Do you ever have issues with them studding themselves if lying down or rolling?

I’ve got one who needs boots on frozen ground and is generally fine in them but he did struggle a bit for grip on the days we had total sheet ice in places but he’s got no common sense and if he can injure himself with something he will! Debating studding the boots if this happens again but don’t want to then give him no grip on stuff like the matts which had been cleared of slush so didn’t freeze as badly. Aaaand also don’t want him to cut himself with them.

They were still out as currently nowhere for them to be in (I’m going to be honest and say if it had been an option (it wasn’t) I probably would have preferred to confine mine in a smaller, surfaced area that wasn’t rutted and was cleared of ice for the worst couple of days when they had to ice skate to get to the water just because of various ongoing health issues). They do have a very long matted section that they mainly stayed on which was ok most of the time (did get a bit slippery on the worst couple of days) but obviously they had to step off to pass each other and the path to the water isn’t matted as it drains super well so doesn’t normally need it.

 

[pistolpete]

Heya which stud & boot combo do you use? Do you find it works ok even if there’s some non icey parts? Do you ever have issues with them studding themselves if lying down or rolling?

I’ve got one who needs boots on frozen ground and is generally fine in them but he did struggle a bit for grip on the days we had total sheet ice in places but he’s got no common sense and if he can injure himself with something he will! Debating studding the boots if this happens again but don’t want to then give him no grip on stuff like the matts which had been cleared of slush so didn’t freeze as badly. Aaaand also don’t want him to cut himself with them.

They were still out as currently nowhere for them to be in (I’m going to be honest and say if it had been an option (it wasn’t) I probably would have preferred to confine mine in a smaller, surfaced area that wasn’t rutted and was cleared of ice for the worst couple of days when they had to ice skate to get to the water just because of various ongoing health issues). They do have a very long matted section that they mainly stayed on which was ok most of the time (did get a bit slippery on the worst couple of days) but obviously they had to step off to pass each other and the path to the water isn’t matted as it drains super well so doesn’t normally need it.

I wouldn’t leave studded boots on a pony unattended. Especially not a known self harmer

 

[Starzaan]

I refuse to keep horses in unless it is genuinely dangerous for them to be out. In the last twenty years that has been one day, and even then, they all went out until 12 and then came in as the wind got dangerously high.

I just don’t understand why you would. Horses who are turned out consistently in stable herds, tend not to be silly when turned out, so snow or ice shouldn’t ever be an issue.

If I couldn’t turn out all day every day, I wouldn’t have horses. It’s a hill I will die on.

 

[scats]

Land recovers remarkably well. My horses are affectionately nicknamed the ‘hooligans’ due to their field exploits, yet every spring the grass comes back through with no issues and the land flattens itself back out (we haven’t rolled them for years)

We do fence off extra muddy bits, and move around as much as possible, but it’s largely impossible to protect fields fully anymore given the type of winters we are having.

If land owners are so terrified of their land being trashed, then they really shouldn’t run livery yards. Or they should provide decent non- grass alternatives. My old yard had 5 rubber surfaced turnout paddocks that were of various sizes. It meant that you could at least get horses out every day, or twice a day, for a couple of hours at a time.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It’s been the ice here which has kept many horses in locally. Proper sheet ice like a skating rink as it rained yet again on sodden land just before the big freeze. Absolutely lethal to man and beast,

I was lucky that I did have a pedestrian route from the house to the stables that I could keep open, which just bypassed the massive glacier which formed on 90% of the yard which was frozen water run off from the fields. I gritted another narrow safe track from stables to the field, but their main access gate was unusable due to ice.

I had some grit stocks, but unsurprisingly it was soon sold out everywhere. I was fine for my modest needs.

Not my yard, but on a no through road not far from home. Like this for several days. Frozen field run off. Would you lead your horses over that?



As to being lectured that horse won’t go silly in the fields if they are kept turned out, someone please tell my two Cushing’s oldies (who mostly stayed out) that they oughtn’t to have gone mad having a hoolie to celebrate the frost coming out of the ground

 

[Ahrena]

I’m lucky to keep my horses at home and I’ve been able to get them out every day.

We’ve had a heavy covering of snow for 8 days. It stopped the ruts in the field freezing too badly despite the cold and I was pleasantly surprised that the track didn’t get too icy. The yard was snow shovelled and gritted.

Now it’s finally melted, they’ll stay on the all weather track for a couple of days whilst it drains a bit. Keeps them moving and socialising!

I do reserve one of my flat paddocks for days when we have a heavy frost so they have somewhere to go that’s safe as I do worry about frozen ruts. They can’t churn it up when it’s frozen and they’re always so delighted with the extra grass they tend to stay quiet anyway!

Still, not overly looking forward to getting on my spicy youngster after 9 days off so she will get a hard lunge session first to iron out the yee-haws

Edit to add - I also have a habit of dumping my mucking out on the concrete stretch to the fields to create a path that doesn’t get icy. Pain in the backside to clear up once it melts though and presumably a much smaller area then a livery yard so I can see why that’s not an option for commercial yards! If the path to the fields was sheet ice and I couldn’t make a safe path, I would keep them in. That’s pretty much the only time I would not turn out at all (box rest excepted)

 

[Flowerofthefen]

My two had two days in. The day after the rain started and the following day as it was just to wet to turn out. Luckily after that it froze so they have been out in the morning every day. It's a bit wet this morning but forecast is for fine weather for the foreseeable so hopefully the fields will start ti dry. There are so many factors as to why or why not someone doesn't turn out. I have a friend who's ponies go out every day whatever the weather. She doesn't mind them standing at the gate. Another friends horse comes in in Oct and won't go back out til spring. Not because she wants him in, the horse won't go out!! It's different for everyone and you just have to do your best.

 

[pistolpete]

I also think if appropriately rugged and enough ad lib hay they’re potentially warmer in the field than in the stable as they can move to keep warm!

 

[Spirit7]

I suppose I should give a little more background. This part livery yard had out no salt or sand down in the car park. Hadn’t salted the mounting block. When I asked if it could be done the answer was you shouldn’t be riding! The schools (2) were both not frozen but there was no thought about getting any of the horses out anywhere. I just think it’s so sad for the horses to get so wound up.

At least your loan got out under saddle anyway!

 

[scats]

I think needing to keep in because of dangerous conditions is a different deal to keeping in to protect land. If the yard is too icy to safely get ponies out, I keep in. Having once broken my arm on the ice (trying to help a pony get up- not mine- who had slipped on the same patch of ice) I am very wary of icy conditions myself.
Last week I kept my eye on the forecast. If it had been one or two days of frozen weather and then back to normal, I’d have kept been more likely to keep in, but I have to weigh up what’s best for Polly with her PSSM and a week in the box would have caused her no end of issues. Fortunately our yard itself wasn’t icy, so I could get them to the fields and I can feed as much hay as I want out there.

I think common sense has to prevail.

 

[Asha]

As TP has mentioned around us it rained heavily then froze, so the land just froze all the rutts hard. Mine are all fairly sensible but theres no way id risk them bruising their soles / breaking a leg for the sake of staying in for a bit.
My 3 foals / 1 yearling all have access to a field shelter with a hard standing area. This has open access to the fields. When the ground was frozen and icy the other day they stayed on the hard standing. They got very bored, but it was completely their choice. Mucking the field shelter out has been amusing. The'yve all tried climbing in the wheelbarrow, one tried to pinch my fork. The others ran off with the plastic shavings bag and terrorised the others with it.. I put an extra bucket on the hardstanding for warm water to make sure they where drinking. They would stand in it.
So as bored as they where they stayed put. Now its defrosted a little they have started to amble out back into the field again.

 

[humblepie]

Years ago, I did the mucking out the stable to make a safe walking track but I don’t think many yards would be happy with that even if tidied up properly afterwards. The previous yard I was on was very precious about how the fields looked to visitors and the turnout got more and more restricted. Another yard near us advertises all year round turn out but their horses seldom go out over the winter. They have a big arena, purpose built lunging arena and an indoor school and are generally pretty full.

 

[Exasperated]

There seems to be a holier than thou attitude from those who were able to turn out. Our yard was like an ice rink - we also have standing water in the fields which also turned into solid ice. Ground was also rutted and frozen solid. Would I have liked to turn my horses out rather than keeping them in for a week? Absolutely. Do I think one week in is better than 6 months box rest if they were to do serious damage or break a leg? Absolutely. Did I spend every day hand walking them round and round the barn instead? Yes.

As perfectly summarised above - we can only do our best.

?? I believe this thread was started by someone concerned about effects of compulsory confinement, joined by plenty others with the same concerns, because the practice seems to have become widespread on livery yards, and is creating significant hardship - for some.

If already satisfied with whatever cold weather solutions you have for your horses, it’s not really relevant - eg. various people have said their horses dislike going outside in bad weather, do not become excitable from containment, or their specific animal or situation is too dangerous to attempt - reasonable, and since nothing to the detriment of your horse or you as owner - all alright.
Eg. If a sinkhole opened in your field, you wouldn’t “defend” keeping your horse stabled for its safety, so when confident and happy that your stabling decisions are in the best interests of your horse, explanation and justification are completely irrelevant, unnecessary.

The conversation started with owners who are NOT happy.

Specifically not happy at being compelled to house their horses full time, for the “reason” that snowy / frosty paddocks are dangerous, and / or that horses turned into such paddocks will ruin the grassland.

Both those assertions are extremely simplistic, misleading, and unsound - illogically so, given that subsequent permission seems conditional upon a thaw.
Bizarre: snow-melt generates more seriously slippery, greasy surfaces to release all that unnecessarily-created, pent-up energy onto, surfaces then more easily churned up - an undesirable and less safe consequence, all round.

Some owners even told they shouldn’t ride their horses - unbelievable, since that is the blindingly obvious and time honoured way of ensuring stabled horses get outside for activity.

So where has this perception come from? Where are yard staff at with this?

Beats me. Not so long ago horse keepers did all possible to get horses turned out or ridden or driven or SOMETHING to keep them sane and their metabolisms healthy, and in other countries likewise.

No surprise so many knowledgeable and conscientious owners are unhappy, when nonsensical “management” is actively creating unnecessary risks and stress for both humans and horses - when, in so many of the reported cases, a workable alternative is plain to see and achieve. And if that doesn’t apply to you, count your lucky stars, because it’s certainly impacting others!

 

[Asha]

?? I believe this thread was started by someone concerned about effects of compulsory confinement, joined by plenty others with the same concerns, because the practice seems to have become widespread on livery yards, and is creating significant hardship - for some.

If already satisfied with whatever cold weather solutions you have for your horses, it’s not really relevant - eg. various people have said their horses dislike going outside in bad weather, do not become excitable from containment, or their specific animal or situation is too dangerous to attempt - reasonable, and since nothing to the detriment of your horse or you as owner - all alright.
Eg. If a sinkhole opened in your field, you wouldn’t “defend” keeping your horse stabled for its safety, so when confident and happy that your stabling decisions are in the best interests of your horse, explanation and justification are completely irrelevant, unnecessary.

The conversation started with owners who are NOT happy.

Specifically not happy at being compelled to house their horses full time, for the “reason” that snowy / frosty paddocks are dangerous, and / or that horses turned into such paddocks will ruin the grassland.

Both those assertions are extremely simplistic, misleading, and unsound - illogically so, given that subsequent permission seems conditional upon a thaw.
Bizarre: snow-melt generates more seriously slippery, greasy surfaces to release all that unnecessarily-created, pent-up energy onto, surfaces then more easily churned up - an undesirable and less safe consequence, all round.

Some owners even told they shouldn’t ride their horses - unbelievable, since that is the blindingly obvious and time honoured way of ensuring stabled horses get outside for activity.

So where has this perception come from? Where are yard staff at with this?

Beats me. Not so long ago horse keepers did all possible to get horses turned out or ridden or driven or SOMETHING to keep them sane and their metabolisms healthy, and in other countries likewise.

No surprise so many knowledgeable and conscientious owners are unhappy, when nonsensical “management” is actively creating unnecessary risks and stress for both humans and horses - when, in so many of the reported cases, a workable alternative is plain to see and achieve. And if that doesn’t apply to you, count your lucky stars, because it’s certainly impacting others!

You are certainly living up to your username

 

[Exasperated]

You are certainly living up to your username

Yep, wonder why that might be?