Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Our local Equine Crem/fallen livestock collector has put a fb notice out that they are still operational.
Laminitis with no improvement
- Thread starter PSD
- Start date
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
If you were happy with the hunt there will be other compassionate licensed slaughtermen (sorry!)
If you say whereabouts you are we can possibly give you a number. I know two who cover the east side of Cheshire, for example.
.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
They definitely had a welshie withchronic lami issues a few years ago, I saw him at one of the meet ups, can't remember his name though or whether that was his only diagnosis.
PSW I'd not be at all happy with her from that photo
PSD
Well-Known Member
don’t be sorry! I had my old boy done by the hunt as the cost was too high for the vet and cremation as he wasn’t insured (that sounds awful when I read it back) however Tilly is insured so I would have the vet do it.
it’s so heartbreaking even having this conversation, had my first vet been competent I may be telling a different story right now. Time to face reality I think.
Equi
Well-Known Member
Don’t get hung up on what ifs, it’s possible it could have went this way anyway. What I will say though is make your decision and make it firmly. I’d be inclined to call and say she’s had a horrible night and you would like to have her put to sleep, not ask what advice they can give about what they would do, that opens the door for them to persuade you to do something else. It’s heartbreaking cause we do sometimes get invested in other people’s threads and I hate when things don’t go well for them big hugs op.
big hugs op.
PSD
Well-Known Member
Don’t get hung up on what ifs, it’s possible it could have went this way anyway. What I will say though is make your decision and make it firmly. I’d be inclined to call and say she’s had a horrible night and you would like to have her put to sleep, not ask what advice they can give about what they would do, that opens the door for them to persuade you to do something else. It’s heartbreaking cause we do sometimes get invested in other people’s threads and I hate when things don’t go well for them
that’s what I’m afraid of, being persuaded to keep going because I don’t want to let her go obviously but it isn’t about what I want now.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
The only way you could be persuaded would be if you were set on the insurance paying for it.
If the vet says no, call a slaughter man. It will cost about £250
This is hard PSD but you know in your heart what needs to be done. My thoughts are with you.
.
PSD
Well-Known Member
my vet did mention if the sinking worsened then there wouldn’t be any other option but to PTS
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
so sorry but i think its time. you just tell your vet what you want done, dont ask him because some vets will keep going much too long IMO....be strong for her and know you are doing the right thing. i have been through making the decision a few times and although it is not easy you have to think of the horse's quality of life, i have never regretted my decision even though i miss them terribly, i did what was right for them and i think you know in your heart what is right for your girl. hope you manage to get this sorted quickly, hugs xxx
chaps89
Well-Known Member
I've been reading this thread but not commented yet.
And I hate to be commenting now on a practical note - please check your insurance documents (as they aren't likely to be open on Easter Sunday for a call) about them covering the cost of pts.
To my knowledge I'm not aware of any insurers who cover that actual cost. Although if your vet says the horse meets the BEVA guidelines for euthanasia (essentially that nothing else can be done and it's inhumane to keep the horse alive any longer) then they may well pay out for the value of your horse and possibly something towards the disposal costs dependant upon your policy.
I'm sorry to be so black and white in such an awful situation, I just didn't want you to have a shock when the paperwork side of things is sorted.
I'm afraid to say I wouldn't be postponing making the final call either. Better for her to go whilst she still has a little sparkle left than when she reaches absolute agony when her pedal bone penetrates the sole, which doesn't sound far off.
The other thing I would consider is quality of life if she were to recover. Say she did pull through from this. It feels unlikely she'd be able to live a normal life out in the field.
So unless you are lucky enough to have a grass free track livery nearby, you'd potentially either have to send her away or accept she's likely to have to be stabled alot with an awful lot of micro-management going forwards to prevent a re-occurrence.
And that is hard work and expensive for you and not likely to be alot of fun for her.
I really feel for you, you've tried so hard and I'm sorry it's come to this.
And I hate to be commenting now on a practical note - please check your insurance documents (as they aren't likely to be open on Easter Sunday for a call) about them covering the cost of pts.
To my knowledge I'm not aware of any insurers who cover that actual cost. Although if your vet says the horse meets the BEVA guidelines for euthanasia (essentially that nothing else can be done and it's inhumane to keep the horse alive any longer) then they may well pay out for the value of your horse and possibly something towards the disposal costs dependant upon your policy.
I'm sorry to be so black and white in such an awful situation, I just didn't want you to have a shock when the paperwork side of things is sorted.
I'm afraid to say I wouldn't be postponing making the final call either. Better for her to go whilst she still has a little sparkle left than when she reaches absolute agony when her pedal bone penetrates the sole, which doesn't sound far off.
The other thing I would consider is quality of life if she were to recover. Say she did pull through from this. It feels unlikely she'd be able to live a normal life out in the field.
So unless you are lucky enough to have a grass free track livery nearby, you'd potentially either have to send her away or accept she's likely to have to be stabled alot with an awful lot of micro-management going forwards to prevent a re-occurrence.
And that is hard work and expensive for you and not likely to be alot of fun for her.
I really feel for you, you've tried so hard and I'm sorry it's come to this.
MuffettMischief
Well-Known Member
God I really feel for you. I have to agree that PTS is the best and kindest option now for your horse and yourself, you have tried so hard so don't feel like you haven't given your horse a chance. Its so difficult in situations like this when they still have their bit of spark. Hugs xxx
HashRouge
Well-Known Member
I've only just caught up with this thread and I just wanted to say Pictus how sorry I am for everything that you and your lovely horse are going through xx
PSD
Well-Known Member
Thank you all for your lovely comments and support. I am having discussions with the vet and farrier today.
here’s an up to date photo of her bad food, what do you make of it? It looks pretty poor to me but I don’t know what I’m looking at. What I’m trying to say is when it looks like this, is there any glimmer of hope for a recovery? Not that i think there is much point of hoping now because as I say I know in my heart the answer hence the discussions with vet and farrier. Does this look like a foot that is going to have sole penetration if I continue trying? Again I’m not saying I am going to continue, it’s more for information purposes that I ask.
here’s an up to date photo of her bad food, what do you make of it? It looks pretty poor to me but I don’t know what I’m looking at. What I’m trying to say is when it looks like this, is there any glimmer of hope for a recovery? Not that i think there is much point of hoping now because as I say I know in my heart the answer hence the discussions with vet and farrier. Does this look like a foot that is going to have sole penetration if I continue trying? Again I’m not saying I am going to continue, it’s more for information purposes that I ask.
Equi
Well-Known Member
There is nothing there anymore. I don’t know if it’s just the photo but there is a lot of wall there and that may just be because there is so little sole left. I’m afraid I’d be very worried about her entire hoof falling off.
be positive
Well-Known Member
I think the question you have to ask is what 'recovery', if it does happen, will mean for her, if it is months more box rest, a life with no turnout, no riding and continual worrying for you then you know the answer that is kindest for her and also yourself.
That foot does not look very stable to me but I am not a vet or farrier, the one thing that my NF had going for him was his soles were so thick and tough the pedal bone was stable, it went against him from the abscess point of view as the horn quality did not make it easy to get the abscess moved, it also allowed him to get out and back to a relatively normal life fairly quickly, he had about 4 months of full box rest but once recovered made very fast progress as his feet were so tough, for me he was a constant cause of concern for the rest of his life, when he finally went down with it again I called it a day rather than go through more months of box rest, it was a very hard decision, the vet thought he still looked very bright but when the injection went in he went very quickly and peacefully and we knew the time was right, it is never easy to make that call but knowing you have done everything you can does make it easier to live with.
That foot does not look very stable to me but I am not a vet or farrier, the one thing that my NF had going for him was his soles were so thick and tough the pedal bone was stable, it went against him from the abscess point of view as the horn quality did not make it easy to get the abscess moved, it also allowed him to get out and back to a relatively normal life fairly quickly, he had about 4 months of full box rest but once recovered made very fast progress as his feet were so tough, for me he was a constant cause of concern for the rest of his life, when he finally went down with it again I called it a day rather than go through more months of box rest, it was a very hard decision, the vet thought he still looked very bright but when the injection went in he went very quickly and peacefully and we knew the time was right, it is never easy to make that call but knowing you have done everything you can does make it easier to live with.
Errin Paddywack
Well-Known Member
You have a terrible decision to make but please don't put it off any longer. Your mare's face in that picture shows a horse in a lot of pain. Speaking as one who has left the decision much too late in the past and bitterly regretted it, get it done as soon as you can. It is one of the hardest decisions to make but also one of the best. Look after yourself, you have all my sympathy.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Removed
Last edited:
PSD
Well-Known Member
I’ve just had a chat with the vet and farrier together on a group call.
long story short, they have both agreed that the imprint shoes should at least be given a go. They said there’s nothing to lose by trying them and we will know in a very short period of time if they are going to help her or not. I feel fed up by it if I’m honest and as much as I want to put her out of pain, I also want to put my trust in the professionals who know what they’re dealing with, if these shoes don’t improve her condition then she will be pts. My farrier said even if the vet suggests something else after this he will advise against it as he doesn’t feel there is another other option now. He said the shoes are not going to put her in a more compromising position and he’s also said he’s not concerned at this point about sole penetration. I feel they’ve both been fantastic up to now and that I should perhaps try this one last effort.
my mind is a bit numb at the minute with it all, I fail to see how imprints will improve her at this point but at least I know I will have tried absolutely everything possible for her.
long story short, they have both agreed that the imprint shoes should at least be given a go. They said there’s nothing to lose by trying them and we will know in a very short period of time if they are going to help her or not. I feel fed up by it if I’m honest and as much as I want to put her out of pain, I also want to put my trust in the professionals who know what they’re dealing with, if these shoes don’t improve her condition then she will be pts. My farrier said even if the vet suggests something else after this he will advise against it as he doesn’t feel there is another other option now. He said the shoes are not going to put her in a more compromising position and he’s also said he’s not concerned at this point about sole penetration. I feel they’ve both been fantastic up to now and that I should perhaps try this one last effort.
my mind is a bit numb at the minute with it all, I fail to see how imprints will improve her at this point but at least I know I will have tried absolutely everything possible for her.
Last edited:
FFAQ
Well-Known Member
When I was training one of my case studies was a very bad laminitis case whose feet looked worse than that (but the laminitis may have gone on for longer). The vet had to nerve block for me to trim as the horse was in such pain that she couldn't pick her feet up. From the beginning we agreed a 2 week limit. If the horse wasn't more comfortable within 2 weeks of the first trim we would pts. She'd had glue-ons previously but in her case they made her less comfortable. We were expecting to see bone from the x-rays, and if that had been the case she would've been pts there and then. However, the bone hadn't come through and thankfully the horse was immediately more comfortable after the trim and was then put in hoof boots with therapeutic pads 24/7.
This mare was never sound enough to ride again but did live for another 4 or 5 years before an injury ended her life.
I am absolutely not saying either way what you should do OP. My case study was right on the edge of ethical in my opinion. Sometimes if there is solar penetration it can be recovered but the question is whether it is ethical to do so. I honestly don't know what I would do if it was one of mine. All I can say is my thoughts are with you and it is clear you would do anything for your beautiful horse. Whatever you decide you can definitely be sure you've done everything you can! Massive hugs to you xxx
This mare was never sound enough to ride again but did live for another 4 or 5 years before an injury ended her life.
I am absolutely not saying either way what you should do OP. My case study was right on the edge of ethical in my opinion. Sometimes if there is solar penetration it can be recovered but the question is whether it is ethical to do so. I honestly don't know what I would do if it was one of mine. All I can say is my thoughts are with you and it is clear you would do anything for your beautiful horse. Whatever you decide you can definitely be sure you've done everything you can! Massive hugs to you xxx
Dusty 123
Well-Known Member
To be honest to me it sounds like the vet and farrier are trying to get money out of you . To be honest her foot looks very damaged to me I say imprints probably would not work.
Last edited:
AmyMay
Situation normal
I think that’s very unfair, and pretty much uncalled for under the circumstances!
PSD
Well-Known Member
my farrier isn’t benefitting at all from carrying on as I’m paying for the cost of the imprint shoes and he’s even providing me with a receipt to show how much they are costing. As for the vet, they may well be “getting money out of me” but that’s what they would do regardless as they want to try everything. If that was the case, they wouldn’t be saying the imprint shoes are the last thing to try as there are other options but they aren’t willing to put her through it.
however I do agree that the imprints probably won’t work, but at this stage I have nothing to lose. The vet and farrier will know in a short space of time if they are going to work or not
Dusty 123
Well-Known Member
Sorry for being rude I probably should have read over it before I posted it
PSD
Well-Known Member
you wasn’t being rude you just shared your opinion. It’s easy to see they could be making money and it’s a worry I have at the back of my mind but for now I do feel like that they are just wanting to try the imprints as there’s nothing to lose and it’s the last realistic thing we can try.
However I’m not at all hopeful they will make any difference at this point
be positive
Well-Known Member
I think this vet and farrier are possibly trying a bit harder because they were not involved at the start, they may be feeling you were let down badly by the other professional and want to ensure they are not missing out anything that can be done, there could be some personal reward but it will be more about trying to right the wrong than for financial gain, they should not be trying to prove the other vet was wrong but to show there are good vets out there who will do their absolute best.
PSD
Well-Known Member
I fully agree. My vet is one of the best in the area and he takes particularly keen interest in lameness and feet. They’ve both been fantastic up to now I cannot daily then which is why I’m trusting them and giving the imprints a go. My farrier reckons you see improvement immediately in a lot of cases
holeymoley
Well-Known Member
Looking back at the photos of the sole- the red marks are the seroma. This is where the pedal bone is pressing on the sole. There’s very few mm’s between that space and the bone. I also can’t decide whether or not her bars are too long- has she had a lot off the heel? This factor could improve her comfort levels. However, if you feel that the imprints won’t work I’d personally let her go while she still has some spark. The full body photo of her looks like she’s holding herself in pain. It’s a truely awful situation to be in and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone xx
PSD
Well-Known Member
this foots due a trim this week so I’m not sure if it’s had significant growth but he did lower them last trim.
obviously I’m not expert so I don’t know if the shoes will work but I just can’t see it t this point. As you say the soles are so thin now so I fed this won’t be of benefit to her at all, but it’s worth a shot. Then I’ve done everything I possibly can and I can be at peace with that when she does go. She is in pain though for sure, her ulcers have probably returned too. Here you can see how tucked in she is (this was last week) bless her heart.
Mule
Well-Known Member
She has such a pretty face.
Auslander
Well-Known Member
It's a tricky one to respond to, as I don't want to give you false hope - but imprints made a world of difference to the EMS mare here that was nearly PTS a few years back as she had such severe laminitis. Fitting Imprints and Equipak CS made her loads more comfortable, so we could treat the EMS and sort out her weight without her being in agony