Laminitis :-(

[RubysGold]

This evening Roo had a wee and it is back to normal colour (having been red on Monday) that has got to be good news!!
She has eaten 3 scoops of hifi lite today and I've left her with another two scoops tonight, so even if she still eats no hay, she has eaten more today then she has in days

Hga, I think I will try apple juice in the water, I will ask the vet about the oil. Have heard milk thistle is good, will ask the vet on Friday
Why can't she have fast fibre, what is in it that I need to avoid (so I can check other things)

Thanks blackvelvet. I think it is going to be a long road and I will have to change a lot of management aspects for her

 

[TGM]

Can you get your hay analysed? Not too expensive, and if your hay turns out to be fairly low sugar then soaking isn't so crucial.

 

[_HP_]

Can you get your hay analysed? Not too expensive, and if your hay turns out to be fairly low sugar then soaking isn't so crucial.

This...

Good news that she s perking up a little. It could be that the prascend is doing its job and making her feel better.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

This evening Roo had a wee and it is back to normal colour (having been red on Monday) that has got to be good news!!
She has eaten 3 scoops of hifi lite today and I've left her with another two scoops tonight, so even if she still eats no hay, she has eaten more today then she has in days

Hga, I think I will try apple juice in the water, I will ask the vet about the oil. Have heard milk thistle is good, will ask the vet on Friday
Why can't she have fast fibre, what is in it that I need to avoid (so I can check other things)

Thanks blackvelvet. I think it is going to be a long road and I will have to change a lot of management aspects for her

You need to find out if the liver is struggling as straw in feeds which makes the liver work extra hard, which you don't want at the moment, trouble is dengi lite is also straw based

Straw products caused ammonia build up in the blood and can give brain fog.

http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/product/yea-sacc also helps stimulate the appetite, Add Yea Sac to her feeds to stimulate a flagging appetite and aid hind gut digestion




One of the highest people in livery issues in horses is Terresa Hoyland of D&H

 

[Pinkvboots]

global herbs restore is very good for a liver tonic especially those with laminitis, I am glad she has eaten something x

 

[RubysGold]

The vet came yesterday. she said that she is more concerned at the lack of food then the laminitis for now. And I have to get her eating. She picked some grass and mixed it into the hay, that worked. For the following two hours she was eating hay :-D she was still eating when I left but didn't eat it all, I think she just needs time to get used to eating again.
The vet took some blood to check. She text me today saying her protein levels have gone back up. Such a relief. She is certain that it's a reaction to the danilon.

Have given her some more chaff this morning mixed with her hay so hoping she continues to eat. Going to the feed shop to see what else I can mix in to tempt her.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

That is a good sign, still crossing my fingers for your little girl

what about a few sugar free polos crushed up or mint supplement

Treats for the Laminitic Horse or pony

A swede
Nuts - Brasil are really good, but almonds too.
Dried fruit of any kind - the chewy banana slices for example are a hight treat value because of the flavour - but 6 slices are realy a small piece of banana so it's Ok.
Mint pellets
cut down and wilt nettles as a treat
I use sugar-free Polos, Hilton Herballs
dodson & horrel equibites as a treat
sugar free polos tho they have aspartame in and you have to be careful as aspartame has some very nasty side effects

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Laminitis is such a strange condition. When I was younger it was always associated with overweight ponies who had to much access to rich grass but that theory was turned on its head by my mare who is not a pony, was not overweight and it was the middle of winter so definitely not grass related. My mare goes down with laminitis if she is stressed in any way and trying to keep her in is the biggest stress factor for her therefore she now lives out 24 / 7 all year round, unmuzzled and hasn't had laminitis for almost 10 years. OP your horse can get over this and have a healthy future if you can find the trigger for the laminitis and eliminate it. Haylage is a massive no for my mare and I buy poor nutritional hay that is weed and dust free. All mine are good doers so it helps with them as well. Good luck with your horse.

 

[Beausmate]

I don't dare to use haylage because that was, in this case, the trigger. She was on haylage and it was far too rich for her. I know this haylage is designed with laminitis in mind but if it's the cause in the first place then maybe best avoided. Unless I could soak it, maybe?

It's not so much the fact that it is haylage, most of it is down to the grasses that it is made from. Ryegrass is incredibly high in sugars, old fashioned meadow grasses are pretty low. I'm not sure what Marksway use in their lami-friendly haylage, but I would be surprised if there is any rye in there.

 

[BlackVelvet]

I think the worst thing about laminitis is what works for one persons horse probably won't work for yours, its such a complicated condition! Mine was stupidly fussy about hay and sometimes took offence to a batch of hay and went on food strike which is strange for a piglet! Alot of the things that encourage horses to eat are sweetened so not suitable for lamis! Keep us updated on her progress!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I think the worst thing about laminitis is what works for one persons horse probably won't work for yours, its such a complicated condition! Mine was stupidly fussy about hay and sometimes took offence to a batch of hay and went on food strike which is strange for a piglet! Alot of the things that encourage horses to eat are sweetened so not suitable for lamis! Keep us updated on her progress!

No I think the worst thing about Laminitis is : it claims so many innocent lives

 

[BlackVelvet]

No I think the worst thing about Laminitis is : it claims so many innocent lives

I think you took my post the wrong way, i am more than aware how devastating laminitis is however i want the OP to stay positive!!! I'm sure many people have success stories which is what she needs to hear right now!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I think you took my post the wrong way, i am more than aware how devastating laminitis is however i want the OP to stay positive!!! I'm sure many people have success stories which is what she needs to hear right now!

No it is ok I did not mean it to sound offensive, I lost my mare to Lami so a bit touchy on this as she was my mare of a lifetime.

 

[ester]

It's not so much the fact that it is haylage, most of it is down to the grasses that it is made from. Ryegrass is incredibly high in sugars, old fashioned meadow grasses are pretty low. I'm not sure what Marksway use in their lami-friendly haylage, but I would be surprised if there is any rye in there.

I think their high fibre one is a mix (but no ryegrass) and they do a timothy only lami approved one too.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I do think laminitis can have a lot to do with the horse's peace of mind and too many horses in this country are kept in a completely unnatural way. Stabled for long periods then turned out at grass which their digestive systems are not used to, given large quantities of hard feed etc. I realise not everyone has the luxury of being able keep their horse in a natural environment but I do think the way we keep them contribute to their health problems.

 

[touchstone]

I fed Horsehage safely to my laminitic for at least a decade, they do two versions that are suitable for laminitic, the blue bags are ryegrass which is cut later and higher fibre, and Timothy grass.

Ordinary haylage can be like rocket fuel, so often trigger laminitis.

I'd give a small net a try and see if there is any reaction such as raised pulses, but I've known several laminitics that do well on it.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Been thinking of you and wondering how Ruby is???

 

[RubysGold]

Thanks hga
She is still on box rest but doing well
I have got her back onto eating soaked hay. It took a while, she was on 4kg of hifi lite a day at one point as it was something she would eat. now she has 8kg of hay over 24 hours and eats most of it :-D

She is moving around the stable a lot better and the oedema is getting smaller. The pulse is still there in the worse leg but not in the other so hopefully we will soon be able to go for a little walk or something

Vet and farrier are both coming together on Monday

 

[_HP_]

Glad she's improving...
Has she had xrays yet....if she has rotation, she won't improve fully until that is corrected and may be doing more damage.

 

[Crackerz]

Lami is such a big worry! I used to work at the Lami clinic and have such an insight to the care needed. You can tell a big difference in recovery once they get the correct care They say 'what works for one horse may not work for yours' but in the case of lami recovery, i truly believe it does.

Hope she is well soon!

 

[gothdolly]

I have a 24 year old welsh sec A who has cushings and got laminitis for the first time last year. Its really hard work managing him now and he cannot even see a blade of grass without his muzzel on. He had rotation on all 4 feet, and developed laminitis whilst stabled with a hoof abscess. That was what led to the cushings diagnosis.

Rubysgold I hope your mare continues to improve. It took 3 months before our pony could walk out of the stable but he is back in light work now.

 

[RubysGold]

HP yes she had xrays after the first week. The vet and farrier were both pleased with them as there was no rotation.

Crackerz I didn't realise there was a laminitis clinic, is that at one of the huge vet practices?

Gothdolly am pleased yours has recovered, I don't know whether I will ever ride roo again. She was almost retired beforehand so will see

 

[Crackerz]

It's independent www.laminitisclinic.org and they are also The Laminitis Trust www.laminitis.org

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

HP yes she had xrays after the first week. The vet and farrier were both pleased with them as there was no rotation.

Crackerz I didn't realise there was a laminitis clinic, is that at one of the huge vet practices?

Gothdolly am pleased yours has recovered, I don't know whether I will ever ride roo again. She was almost retired beforehand so will see

Lot of vets down here do clinics like this one https://www.facebook.com/3001481602...00148160212/10153247946275213/?type=3&theater

could you speak to your vet or another practice, as they don;t mind you attending even if not a client down here. We have been to a Laminitis and liver one

Damn just realised my vet had one last night and we missed it https://www.facebook.com/whvcequine/

 

[RubysGold]

Vet and farrier both coming tomorrow.
I hope that they might let her walk out but I don't know, will see what they say

This is probably a ridiculous thing to say, but when she is better, will she ever be able to eat an apple or carrot again??? I've never let them have loads, but occasionally I have taken some to the yard. I know I will always have to be very careful of diet but is it a never ever now

 

[gothdolly]

Our pony has his prascend tablet in half a small carrot daily, the rest of his diet is very carefully managed, but the carrot was the only way to get the prascend into him.

 

[Echo Bravo]

My welsh sec a has EMS, she went down with laminitis a year ago Feb on frozen ground thats when after blood test as she still stabled with it 12 weeks later it has taken 12 months to get her right still has a bit of a cresty neck and fat bum. I tried the soaked hay soaking it over night and during the day what I didn't realise that it depends on your hay how much sugar it still holds when soaked, so she is on timothy haylage as very low in sugar and Winergy low energy + healthy hooves, her weight has dropped she is sound although she had rotation in off fore.

 

[_HP_]

Vet and farrier both coming tomorrow.
I hope that they might let her walk out but I don't know, will see what they say

This is probably a ridiculous thing to say, but when she is better, will she ever be able to eat an apple or carrot again??? I've never let them have loads, but occasionally I have taken some to the yard. I know I will always have to be very careful of diet but is it a never ever now

There's no reason, once you have found the cause of the laminitis and treated accordingly, that she shouldn't make a full recovery and be able to enjoy a carrot or two. Carrots are mainly water and not nearly as bad as they are made out to be and are very useful tools in getting medication in ☺

 

[DanceswithCows]

Nobody ever likes my laminitis advice because it runs counter to everything we're fed about it, but here's what I've learnt and you can take it or leave it:

1 - Starvation makes things worse. I found this out from my own weight-control history, tried it out on the horses (and my oxen, incidentally, which suffer the same problems) and it worked. If they are not getting truly, properly FED (as in, nutrition not bagged feed) it makes their bodies desperate which encourages gorging and it triggers imbalances, leading to point 2. What they need is an ad-lib supply of either healthy (not short and stressed) native (No ryegrass), unfertilised pasture or the same but in hay form. It's really essential they never run out and get hungry during the critical times of year.

2 - minerals, minerals, minerals (and salt). IME, most things come back to imbalances. I see it as vital that anything in danger of lami has free access to salt and minerals, really good minerals, not the blocks with only a handful of things in. I use a dried seaweed supplement, and sprinkle a general purpose vitamin mix on it aswell so everything's available.

3 - painkillers encourage movement and therefore damage. Might sound mean, but the pain mechanism of lami makes them lie down and resist damaging their feet so they recover quicker. On the plus side what you save in vet bills and whacky feeds you can devote to getting them more of the right grass and hay and minerals!

4 - Let them lose weight in winter. It's natural. Same ad lib hay system, no extra feeding (unless they end up like skeletons, but that's unlikely unless they're ill!). Then there's leeway come spring.

5 - space to move. it's kind of a by-product of giving them enough grass to keep it healthy and not stressed anyway, but it's important to keep them fit and active obviously and they will do this happily by themselves in this scenario.

I've rehabbed the fattest equine I ever saw in the flesh this way without any extra exercise. When I got a mule, I suddenly got paranoid and threw all this out of the window and locked them up in a starvation paddock for spring. they both ballooned and the shetland got lami. In horror I went back to my old regime and in the space of a few months they had slimmed right back down and are both normal and perfectly happy again. Good luck!

 

[amandaco2]

Painkillers are also anti inflammatory so needed to reduce the inflammation thus helping improve perfusion. In the acute stage they are needed

Nobody ever likes my laminitis advice because it runs counter to everything we're fed about it, but here's what I've learnt and you can take it or leave it:

1 - Starvation makes things worse. I found this out from my own weight-control history, tried it out on the horses (and my oxen, incidentally, which suffer the same problems) and it worked. If they are not getting truly, properly FED (as in, nutrition not bagged feed) it makes their bodies desperate which encourages gorging and it triggers imbalances, leading to point 2. What they need is an ad-lib supply of either healthy (not short and stressed) native (No ryegrass), unfertilised pasture or the same but in hay form. It's really essential they never run out and get hungry during the critical times of year.

2 - minerals, minerals, minerals (and salt). IME, most things come back to imbalances. I see it as vital that anything in danger of lami has free access to salt and minerals, really good minerals, not the blocks with only a handful of things in. I use a dried seaweed supplement, and sprinkle a general purpose vitamin mix on it aswell so everything's available.

3 - painkillers encourage movement and therefore damage. Might sound mean, but the pain mechanism of lami makes them lie down and resist damaging their feet so they recover quicker. On the plus side what you save in vet bills and whacky feeds you can devote to getting them more of the right grass and hay and minerals!

4 - Let them lose weight in winter. It's natural. Same ad lib hay system, no extra feeding (unless they end up like skeletons, but that's unlikely unless they're ill!). Then there's leeway come spring.

5 - space to move. it's kind of a by-product of giving them enough grass to keep it healthy and not stressed anyway, but it's important to keep them fit and active obviously and they will do this happily by themselves in this scenario.

I've rehabbed the fattest equine I ever saw in the flesh this way without any extra exercise. When I got a mule, I suddenly got paranoid and threw all this out of the window and locked them up in a starvation paddock for spring. they both ballooned and the shetland got lami. In horror I went back to my old regime and in the space of a few months they had slimmed right back down and are both normal and perfectly happy again. Good luck!