Large rescue society refusing to hand over collie to breed rescue

M

Moobli

...
Joined
13 June 2013
Messages
6,142
Visit site
I have always found it really odd how some rescues refuse to hand dogs back to their breeders or to other rescues who might be better placed to find them a new home.

Today I heard about a border collie who, when assessed, showed some dog-dog aggression so the large multi-breed rescue have decided he is not suitable for rehoming and have earmarked him for euthanasia. An experienced breed specific rescue have stepped in and have offered to take him in, assess and do any training required to get him ready for a new home but the large rescue have refused. It now in the hands of lawyers.
 
They feel the dog is not safe to be in public society - if they pass it on (and while the breed rescue may feel they are experienced the rescue may not have total faith in them) and it kills a small dog in someone elses hands how would that look? I think there are far worse things than a kind euthanasia and plenty of dogs with no issues dying for lack of homes. Of course it may be a very simple problem resolvable by the second rescue but they have no 'right' to the dog and why they would spent money on lawyers is beyond me..
 
Sadly it seems that some rescues are full of self important people who really don’t have a clue about much! Often these are people who are ‘enjoying’ their role whilst holding everyone else at bay. The secret (or not so secret) of any group of people is good team work, and respect linked to more than a smidgen of knowledge not those who may have ‘created’ a role for themselves. Breed specific rescues, of whatever breed or type usually have a wealth of experience behind them and access to others with even more experience who frequently share the knowledge they’ve gained over very many years for free. General ‘rescues‘ just don’t have this capacity and are frequently over extended and inflexible. Most accredited breeders will expect to be consulted if a dog of their breeding requires to be rehomed and some will insist that an agreement to this effect is signed when they sell a puppy. Hopefully the lawyers will sort it out in a sensible manner no doubt though it will cost the rescue money which should be sent on welfare.
 
It’s Mayhew animal rescue.

https://themayhew.org/

I’m erring on the side of thinking that this is the best outcome. Dog on dog aggression is always going to be very tricky to handle if it goes beyond grumbling at unwanted attention. I don’t want to be out walking my dog and have some DA dog come barrelling over and take a pop at mine. My view is maybe coloured because there are two local psycho collies who are fortunately always kept behind a gate, but who would kill passing dogs if they could and one would also go for visitors too, so it has to be shut away if someone visits. They give me the willies.

There are many, many dogs with less serious issues that desperately need good homes, best concentrate on turning them around.
 
It's quite common I think. Not just with aggressive dogs , which I often feel would be better pts, but generally some of the large rescues seem reluctant to work with breed specific rescues, its a shame.
I have also experienced the reluctance to contact breeders when volunteering for a breed rescue. I assessed a dog who was going into rescue and I saw the papers, not a breeder I knew- I will stick my neck out and say dogs from top breeders rarely end up in rescue, but I thought it was worth contacting them. The rescue said not to, but I persuaded owners to anyway and breeder did assist with rehoming.
 
Off topic, sorry OP, but I follow a rescue on FB who bring dogs over from Ireland. They are currently spending a fortune with a specialist behaviourist tryibng to rehab a dog with both DA and human aggression, albeit the human one is caused by nervousness. I know another person on here also supports the charity, and she may have a different view to me.
The dog has been in rehab for 3 weeks and has improved a lot. As long as you have a bag of treats you can approach it, although it is always on a lead or behind a fence. It needs a very experienced handler, secure field, no off lead, no dogs and no children foster home before it goes back for another stint at rehab. This hasn't been found so it is now back at boarding kennels. How many people want to rescue a dog with all those needs and not have a dog already?
Just what is the point of this? This rescue brings dogs over from Irish pounds, I can't believe that they couldn't spend funds in a more appropriate way to help more dogs.
 
gallopingby said:
Sadly it seems that some rescues are full of self important people who really don’t have a clue about much! Often these are people who are ‘enjoying’ their role whilst holding everyone else at bay. The secret (or not so secret) of any group of people is good team work, and respect linked to more than a smidgen of knowledge not those who may have ‘created’ a role for themselves. Breed specific rescues, of whatever breed or type usually have a wealth of experience behind them and access to others with even more experience who frequently share the knowledge they’ve gained over very many years for free. General ‘rescues‘ just don’t have this capacity and are frequently over extended and inflexible. Most accredited breeders will expect to be consulted if a dog of their breeding requires to be rehomed and some will insist that an agreement to this effect is signed when they sell a puppy. Hopefully the lawyers will sort it out in a sensible manner no doubt though it will cost the rescue money which should be sent on welfare.
Click to expand...

Specialist rescues may have a wealth of experience but large rescues call on experienced behaviourists to assess problem dogs and their testimony will be sought by the courts. Many experienced owners 'think' they know how to deal with a problem dog, until they meet a really dangerous one.
 
This is what the breed rescue have to say ...

Our dear friend Colin Morath placed his boys benji and barney into the mayhew under temporary care for 8 weeks while undergoing treatment for cancer. Unfortunately Colin passed away so the boys became the legal responsibility of the mayhew. Colin's ex wife was able to take barney as this was Colin's wish, but Colin felt benji was a bit too energetic and he thought the mayhew would find him a loving home. Unfortunately, this is not the case. During his assessment, it is CLAIMED, he was aggressive towards another dog. We have no proof of this being the case. Benji has NEVER bitten or attacked before entering this rescue. There is a 24 hour injunction in place thanks to the Border Collie Spot's legal team and they're hoping to extend that in court tomorrow. The Border Collie Spot have a place for Benji but the mayhew will NOT release him into their extremely capable hands.
 
CorvusCorax said:
It's probably a legal issue. If it's a large rescue it will probably be a registered company or charity. If something goes wrong, they would be ultimately liable in a court of law.
Click to expand...

That is very likely the case.

If the breed rescue were to take responsibility and sign a disclaimer to the effect that the responsibility rests with them I don’t see the issue. Apparently this dog has shown no aggression in the past and dog reactivity or aggression is much less of a rehoming issue than aggression to people imo (where I would side with the large rescue’s decision).
 
Yes, the Mayhew have legal responsibility.
The assessnent was done and the results recorded.
So theoretically, if they released him from their care and he went on to injure or kill another dog, they and the assessor would be liable/subject to costs in a legal case.
They knew, but rescinded their responsibility anyway.
'Apparently' won't cut it in court.
I don't see what is hard to understand about this.

In this ever-more litigious society, people really do need to start condidering the legal obligations surrounding dogs.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
I'd be surprised if dog aggression is the only issue, it's not normally a reason for PTS. What charity is it?
Click to expand...

The Mayhew. I’d also be surprised if a dog was pts for dog aggression but some charities seem to cherry pick the easy dogs to rehome to inflate their rehoming figures.
 
MurphysMinder said:
It's quite common I think. Not just with aggressive dogs , which I often feel would be better pts, but generally some of the large rescues seem reluctant to work with breed specific rescues, its a shame.
I have also experienced the reluctance to contact breeders when volunteering for a breed rescue. I assessed a dog who was going into rescue and I saw the papers, not a breeder I knew- I will stick my neck out and say dogs from top breeders rarely end up in rescue, but I thought it was worth contacting them. The rescue said not to, but I persuaded owners to anyway and breeder did assist with rehoming.
Click to expand...

I agree that responsible breeders will always take dogs of their breeding back if necessary but occasionally an owner may surrender a dog to rescue through embarrassment, convenience and god knows what else. I was involved in a case where a breed rescue refused to relinquish a papered dog back to the breeder despite him offering to pay, to have the bitch spayed or assess her for a working home.
 
Last edited:
Moobli said:
And how depressing is that ?. Too many being bred, not enough suitable homes, so their individual lives become less valuable.
Click to expand...

It really is. Like you say, the decent breeders don't tend to have dogs going into rescue (Or maybe that was MM). My mum has had rescued collies for her last few dogs, and they have been great.
 
Clodagh said:
It really is. Like you say, the decent breeders don't tend to have dogs going into rescue (Or maybe that was MM). My mum has had rescued collies for her last few dogs, and they have been great.
Click to expand...
Sadly from my time in breed rescue, most collies given up are farm bred.
 
Moobli said:
The Mayhew. I’d also be surprised if a dog was pts for dog aggression but some charities seem to cherry pick the easy dogs to rehome to inflate their rehoming figures.
Click to expand...

Why would they not, though? Realistically there are very few members of the public who either want to, or have the capability to, rehome a dog that isn't 'easy'.
Look at how many threads there have been over the years about people who have been rehomed a completely unsuitable dog because the rescue wanted it out the door, it can be stress and misery for the dog and the new owner alike.
If a dog has a recorded bite history or aggression towards other dogs or a poor assessment result, and then something happens when the dog is in a new home, legally, the rescue is toast, the judge will say 'you knew'.

Perhaps a better idea would be for the public to be made aware that breed specific rescues exist and that they may be the better option in the first instance.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Why would they not, though? Realistically there are very few members of the public who either want to, or have the capability to, rehome a dog that isn't 'easy'.
Look at how many threads there have been over the years about people who have been rehomed a completely unsuitable dog because the rescue wanted it out the door, it can be stress and misery for the dog and the new owner alike.
If a dog has a recorded bite history or aggression towards other dogs or a poor assessment result, and then something happens when the dog is in a new home, legally, the rescue is toast, the judge will say 'you knew'.

Perhaps a better idea would be for the public to be made aware that breed specific rescues exist and that they may be the better option in the first instance.
Click to expand...

Excellent, valid points. I can’t argue with that.
 
I've just had to do a complete 180 on the subject, personally, it's never just as simple as 'oh, Fido had a bad day', and everything has to be recorded to the n'th degree.
 
Moobli said:
Sadly from my time in breed rescue, most collies given up are farm bred.
Click to expand...

Mums collie before this one was farm bred. She rehomed it from a small terraced house with a single mum and about six kids. They really did love the dog and she hadn’t been ill treated but she had neuroses that were hitherto unknown ! She calmed right down in a calm quiet house with plenty of exercise but would never have been many people’s cup of tea.
 
Bear in mind as well that contacting the breeder is all very well but what if you contact the breeder and they are not a 'good egg' but actually put the dog or public in more harm? Many 'breeders' I wouldn't let have any of my dogs nevermind expect them to be responsible in re homing them.
It is a sad story, perhaps this is more, perhaps there is not but I can't see a charity 'making up' an aggressive incident just for the fun of it...
I also have plenty of experience of small 'breed specific' or 'experienced' rescuers being quite dodgy - e.g. the lady who takes dogs nobody else wanted , had 100 dogs and ended up being done for welfare with dead bodies on site etc- I bet she would have said she could 'take the dog on' and been horrified to be told no. An extreme example but just one of them.
 
Honestly.....If more rescues were responsible about the temperament of the dogs they are rehoming it might be easier to recommend rescues as an option for the majority of people. Having met multiple dogs recently that quite frankly were a danger to the public either through severe dogs aggression or reactive fear aggression from smaller rescue setups I would be very hesitant to recommend saving a dog from rescue as a baseline anymore. Not to mention the severe and expensive health issues in several that the new owners were also not expecting.

Dogs are chosen to be companions for the vast majority of people imo. Most people do not have the ability to handle a challenging dog or enjoy the degree of management involved with severe dog aggression or reactively.
Downplaying a dog's issues is very irresponsible and to be quite frank there are not enough responsible homes out there for the degree of damaged dogs in rescue. Not every dog is mentally healthy due to their past experiences or degree of socialisation. Its awful...but its true. We cannot save every dog, there are to many being produced and not enough suitable homes.

Plus downplaying the likes of dog aggression leads to absolute shitshows after when they maul/kill another dog in the dog park/dog beach etc ....and the new owners are then in a situation where that's never happened before and add in the disclaimer of they are a "rescue". Because that encourages the general public to consider a rescue for their next pet.

Dog aggression, in particular, is a massive challenge to manage and the stakes are incredibly high for slip-ups..especially in the larger breeds who tend to inflict massive trauma or kill their victims.
I won't even go into the human aggression stuff...

I'm not at all surprised to hear that rescues won't rehome to each other, especially in a larger responsible rescue.
There are a lot of very interesting setups out there under the names of "rescues" and hoarding is a common issue among those who do want to "save" animals.

I have to admit I'm not particularly impressed with the fact that this collie rescues tactic is to try and deny the fact the dog may have reacted in his assessment. That would immediately raise massive red flags in my mind for the level of sensibility over emotion involved.

If they were more upfront about the fact that the dog might be reactive... but should be given a chance despite his issues because kennels are stressful on dogs and collies are sensitive souls who do very poorly in a kennel situation I'd have a lot more sympathy .... but flat out going nope the big rescue are lying about the poor doggo, he's a good boy and always was for his owner...is not exactly screaming responsible experienced resue who are going to manage a potentially dangerous dog really well.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top