Larsen traps (traps that use live decoy birds) in order to catch others.

[Moomin1]

I have no issues with controlling the population by humane methods, but I don't believe it is humane.
I thought it was only illegal to interfere with a licensed legal trap? Of course, I wasn't advocating the op do anything illegal. But the lack of shelter would mean its not a legal trap? Therefore provided the trap isn't damaged there's no charges to answer. In fact, i'm sure there's a law stating that by knowingly letting something suffer you're complicit in the abuse. So it could be argued that without shelter being provided you were simply acting to prevent charges being brought against yourself.

With regard to your last comments about being complicit in the abuse - I think you are maybe getting confused with the Animal Welfare Act which states that if a person causes an animal to suffer, they are guilty of an offence, and if you are the person responsible for the care of an animal, and you allow someone else to cause it to suffer (knowingly) then you commit and offence.

In this instance this doesn't apply because OP is not the owner or person responsible for this bird, he didn't set the trap himself (or herself) and it is not on his/her land knowingly.

I agree with the fact that this trap is not a legal trap if there is no shelter. But OP could still get in a lot of trouble for entering the person's land and damaging the trap.

 

[Littlelegs]

Whoopsi daisy officer, blonde moment I got confused about the law. Trespassing is a civil matter I thought? & the trap doesn't have to be damaged. Surely its the same as if I see an wild animal suffering on my neighbours lawn, & they're not around there is a moral, if not legal, obligation to do my best to alleviate the suffering?

 

[Moomin1]

Whoopsi daisy officer, blonde moment I got confused about the law. Trespassing is a civil matter I thought? & the trap doesn't have to be damaged. Surely its the same as if I see an wild animal suffering on my neighbours lawn, & they're not around there is a moral, if not legal, obligation to do my best to alleviate the suffering?

No, sadly there is no legal obligation to alleviate suffering caused by someone else - unless you are the owner or person responsible for that animal. If you think of it as driving along a country lane and spotting a badger half dead from being run over - some people continue to drive, whereas some wouldn't. The people who continue to drive are not committing an offence (but they are ****holes!).


Absolutely agree about the moral obligation!

Normally larsen traps will be padlocked shut - but if it isn't then all the better!!

 

[Ollie's Mum]

Surely its the same as if I see an wild animal suffering on my neighbours lawn, & they're not around there is a moral, if not legal, obligation to do my best to alleviate the suffering?

My friend has barn type stables and found a bat in distress on the floor which she took to the vet - vet tore a real strip off her telling her that she'd broken the law by touching it! The vet calmed down a bit when my friend pointed out that if she'd left it there it would have been squashed by the horses but I gather was still quite huffy. It was re-hydrated and returned safely to the barn but the vet didn't seem to think about any moral obligations!

 

[mulledwhine]

As long as fed wartered and shelter then no problem, I do not like it but living on a farm have no say

 

[Littlelegs]

I'll just change my original statement to 'go & let it out without illegally damaging the trap' sorted!

 

[Moomin1]

My friend has barn type stables and found a bat in distress on the floor which she took to the vet - vet tore a real strip off her telling her that she'd broken the law by touching it! The vet calmed down a bit when my friend pointed out that if she'd left it there it would have been squashed by the horses but I gather was still quite huffy. It was re-hydrated and returned safely to the barn but the vet didn't seem to think about any moral obligations!

The vet was wrong! There is no problem removing any animal - however protected - if it is injured or suffering for the purposes of alleviating the suffering. If it was just for the purpose of moving it incase it got squished and it wasn't injured/suffering - but just sat there enjoying a nice snooze (unlikely obviously!) then yes it would be an offence!!

 

[Shantara]

The farmer who's field backs onto my garden used to use them. I've not seen them in use for about 5 years now, but it was awful when he did.
The birds were left with no food or water and on several occasions I found the crow (they used crows) dead inside. Once I even saw a live crow, in with a dead crow. With an animal as clever as a crow, that must have been torture.
Thank goodness he stopped.

 

[Holly Hocks]

All this talk of being prosecuted for criminal damage makes me laugh - firstly you have to be caught - and living in the country I can assure you that police numbers are declining rapidly - OH is a Police Officer and has often been the only car patrolling around 100 square miles. I'm pretty damn sure that if he got called to someone damaging a padlock who was 30 miles away, the person would have done a flit ages before he could get there!

 

[Moomin1]

All this talk of being prosecuted for criminal damage makes me laugh - firstly you have to be caught - and living in the country I can assure you that police numbers are declining rapidly - OH is a Police Officer and has often been the only car patrolling around 100 square miles. I'm pretty damn sure that if he got called to someone damaging a padlock who was 30 miles away, the person would have done a flit ages before he could get there!

Fully agree!! We all also know that nobody ever gets done for tresspass either. I just wouldn't advocate doing any of it on an open forum!!

 

[martlin]

If you think of it as driving along a country lane and spotting a badger half dead from being run over - some people continue to drive, whereas some wouldn't. The people who continue to drive are not committing an offence (but they are ****holes!).

I just have to ask, I really do:
what are you supposed to do with a half dead badger? Genuine question here.

 

[Littlelegs]

Hollyhocks- just had a mental image of a swat team chasing through the countryside for the padlock smasher, & maybe a csi style investigation after. And a get away car chase for good measure!

 

[Ollie's Mum]

I just have to ask, I really do:
what are you supposed to do with a half dead badger? Genuine question here.

Touch it very carefully - they have jaws like man traps!

 

[Holly Hocks]

Hollyhocks- just had a mental image of a swat team chasing through the countryside for the padlock smasher, & maybe a csi style investigation after. And a get away car chase for good measure!

I reckon they'd drive as slowly as possible in the hopes that the offender had left long before they got there...

 

[martlin]

Touch it very carefully - they have jaws like man traps!

well, that's exactly what I was thinking - they are dangerous, especially if distressed, so.. what do you do?

 

[Moomin1]

I just have to ask, I really do:
what are you supposed to do with a half dead badger? Genuine question here.

Haha - the answer is be VERY careful and don't go near the bugger if you don't know what you are doing - however dead it may look!

No - sorry - I used that as an example (a poor one!!). Badgers shouldn't be handled by anybody that isn't used to dealing with them! I've rescued a few and have been chased across an entire estate by one who was trying to attach itself to my leg - despite it having two broken legs and one eye hanging out! Best thing to do would be get relevant authorities out to deal - whoever that may be that you want to call.

For purposes of my example - I will change it to a nice cute fluffy and reasonably safe bunny!!

 

[Ollie's Mum]

I've read that you are supposed to present them with a thick branch to clamp their teeth onto so that they don't bite you! (I kid you not )

If a badger was lying in the road wouldn't know how to move one without either injuring it further or else getting myself bitten.

 

[Littlelegs]

Can you imagine the 999 call? Police, quick, someone's broken my padlock! Hurry, before the perpetrators get away!

 

[Ollie's Mum]

For purposes of my example - I will change it to a nice cute fluffy and reasonably safe bunny!!

That one's easy - I've got experience of that. You get off your horse, volunteer to hold friend's horse then go round the corner so you don't have to look after telling her to despatch the injured rabbit with a rock

 

[Moomin1]

I've read that you are supposed to present them with a thick branch to clamp their teeth onto so that they don't bite you! (I kid you not )

If a badger was lying in the road wouldn't know how to move one without either injuring it further or else getting myself bitten.

There is some truth in that Ollie's Mum. When a badger grabs hold of something - it will hold onto it for dear life - and believe me there teeth are bigger and meaner than a Jack Russells! They will generally grip, swing and shake what it has hold of. I am 5ft7 and average weight and have been dragged about 50 yards by a badger who was seriously injured - he had hold of one end of a grasper - me the other!

 

[martlin]

Haha - the answer is be VERY careful and don't go near the bugger if you don't know what you are doing - however dead it may look!

No - sorry - I used that as an example (a poor one!!). Badgers shouldn't be handled by anybody that isn't used to dealing with them! I've rescued a few and have been chased across an entire estate by one who was trying to attach itself to my leg - despite it having two broken legs and one eye hanging out! Best thing to do would be get relevant authorities out to deal - whoever that may be that you want to call.

For purposes of my example - I will change it to a nice cute fluffy and reasonably safe bunny!!

I went to check my lambs in the dark one night, was doing headcount of smallish dark shapes, saw one slightly away from the others and tried to heard it back to the flock... yes, you guessed it, it wasn't a lamb at all I nearly had a heart attack when it launched in my direction!
Now, a bunny I would know what to do with A badger is a no go zone for me, though.

 

[Moomin1]

I went to check my lambs in the dark one night, was doing headcount of smallish dark shapes, saw one slightly away from the others and tried to heard it back to the flock... yes, you guessed it, it wasn't a lamb at all I nearly had a heart attack when it launched in my direction!
Now, a bunny I would know what to do with A badger is a no go zone for me, though.

Ha ha I bet that gave you a heck of a shock!! It's pretty horrible being chased by a badger!!

Awww li'l lambs! I'm afraid I would be useless at anything to do with sheep farming - would just sit and cuddle the lambs all day!!

Although admittedly I do love a good lamb chop with mint sauce..

You want to watch those fluffy cute bunnies though - not all they're cracked up to be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmu5sRIizdw

 

[Ollie's Mum]

A farmer neighbour once caught a mink in a live trap and put it in the back of the Land Rover (complete with trap) - he hadn't driven far before he took the trap out again, he said he'd never seen anything react as ferociously and he really thought it was going to get loose.

Not sure what he did with at that point!

 

[Fii]

A friend of mine was couple of cars behind a car that ran a badger over,, he stopped because it wasnt dead, to despatch it, and had to try to explain himself to the police, because someone complained!!!

 

[Serephin]

I was working in Spain once years and years ago - went to a engineering place to get more supplies and there were tiny little cages hung up outside with birds in them. I stood looking at them for some time before deciding to set them free. I managed to get two of the cages open before my colleagues remerged from the workshop. I will never forget how the remaining trapped bird sang and sang.

I got a *******ing from one of my group as he said I could have jeopardised our supplier if they found out. I said I didn't care! In my mind it was plain wrong and I had to do something about it.

 

[Copperpot]

If the badger was beyond help I'd run it over again to finish it off! I see them at work, they touch the live rail of the train track and when it electrocutes them they bite it and get killed. See tons of dead badgers every day.

 

[Ollie's Mum]

I think it would very much depend what you were driving - they're pretty solid animals to try running over - no I'm not talking from experience, I've honestly never run one down!

 

[Copperpot]

True. Maybe only if I was in big 4x4. I wouldn't know what else to do cos they are vicious and in trying to help it i'd prob get bitten. But wouldn't want to leave it to suffer

 

[Goldenstar]

I seriously hate Larsen traps ,used to have a problem with a keeper putting them on our land after several attempts at talking to the keeper came to nothing I took to letting the birds go and chucking the traps onto the edge of the road.

 

[applecart14]

I am unable to let it out. The trap is my partners brothers. They are all aware of my feelings towards to the trap as I walked out of the house last night where my partner is currently living with his two brothers as I was so angry and upset. They know it will be me if I let it out and I will probably never be welcome around there again. Having said that I am not sure at this moment in time if I want to be with someone that thinks that this is an okay thing to do because 'all country folk do it'. In the whole 11 1/2 years of being with my partner this side to him has never shown before but then the circumstances have never come up.