Larsen traps (traps that use live decoy birds) in order to catch others.

[Birker2020]

I think a large percentage of road kill badgers are put there by farmers who shoot them or poison them due to the TB link. I spoke to a chap from DEFRA a couple of years ago and put my partners theory to him and he agreed. He said DEFRA undertook a study of three road kill badgers in East Anglia. Upon post mortem it was found that they were all riddled with lead shot.

 

[Goldenstar]

It is the country way to some people , but not for all .
It's a difficult situation for you I can see that be careful you don't make a desision you regret I know it can be argued that I overreacted over the traps on my land but I was furious they never asked and I found one where the bird had starved to death and there was no need to put them in with the youngsters.
However the chicken you eat may have been raised in worse conditions nothing is black and white .
I hate caged birds and the thought of a wild one in cage luring its fellows to there death got to me and it did become a line in sand issue for me with the keeper.

 

[Birker2020]

However the chicken you eat may have been raised in worse conditions nothing is black and white .
I hate caged birds and the thought of a wild one in cage luring its fellows to there death got to me and it did become a line in sand issue for me with the keeper.

In the case of chicken no - I know what I am eating there! I volunteered a lot for the BHWT (British Hen Welfare Trust) for a while and we had ex batts ourselves. I only eat free range chicken and only eat free range eggs. I hate any bird being caged myself. I wont eat halal meat either so whenever I go for a balti its a mushroom one! And kebabs went out of the window along time ago.

Still thinking of that poor bird. It might only be a corvid and it might well peck eyes out of new born lambs but it still doesn't deserve the slow torture it is suffering.

 

[Littlelegs]

Difficult situation for you to be in op so no useful advice. Have you had a chat with your partner away from his brothers? It maybe he doesn't like them either but doesn't want to appear 'soft' you know what men are like. At least worth a try before you make any decisions.

 

[Hairy Old Cob]

If you need to humanely dispatch an injured Badger Heavy blow to the end of the snout they go out like a light any where else and you are wasting your time.

However much you dislike LarsenTraps their are far to many Magpies about, I have shot between 90 -100 in the last 3 years.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thanks for your help guys. Feel very sad about it. I'm not an overly sentimental person but seeing this poor bird flinging itself against the side of a cage in an effort to get free clearly distressed totally haunts me. And knowing its going to be killed eventually itself when its job is done and the other birds have been killed is what really gets to me. THe stress its under must be imense.

An old farmer, whom I used to know, always let the decoy bird go free.

 

[RunToEarth]

I think a large percentage of road kill badgers are put there by farmers who shoot them or poison them due to the TB link. I spoke to a chap from DEFRA a couple of years ago and put my partners theory to him and he agreed. He said DEFRA undertook a study of three road kill badgers in East Anglia. Upon post mortem it was found that they were all riddled with lead shot.

what an absolutely stupid, sweeping generalisation to make. Asides from the fact that most farmers could never afford the fine for killing badgers, they are also most unlikely to theaten their position. Once you have killed badgers in a sett another badger will move in, possibly infected, farmers would not compromise themselves like that, have idiots writing rubbish on forums only weakens their position.
As far as Larsen traps go, it is most often people who have no comprehension of how they are used that wander about releasing them. You do not need a licence number to use them, but the traps have to conform with standards, if they have adequate food shelter and water leave them well alone, you have no idea how destructive corvids are to the shooting industry.

 

[Holly Hocks]

what an absolutely stupid, sweeping generalisation to make. Asides from the fact that most farmers could never afford the fine for killing badgers, they are also most unlikely to theaten their position. Once you have killed badgers in a sett another badger will move in, possibly infected, farmers would not compromise themselves like that, have idiots writing rubbish on forums only weakens their position.
As far as Larsen traps go, it is most often people who have no comprehension of how they are used that wander about releasing them. You do not need a licence number to use them, but the traps have to conform with standards, if they have adequate food shelter and water leave them well alone, you have no idea how destructive corvids are to the shooting industry.

I don't do shooting, and I've never seen these traps anywhere in my area - can you explain to me how they are used because from what I've read from the other posts on here they sound pretty barbaric, but you seem to be saying that the other posters are wrong - I'm just interested in a different viewpoint.
How are they destructive to the shooting injury - do the corvids actually kill the gamebirds?
Thanks

 

[Ibblebibble]

how many of you use mouse traps or poison around the yard to keep the vermin population under control? and would you feel the same way about larsen traps if crows or magpies were a pest to your horses in some way.
a friend uses a larsen trap on the farm i livery on at the farmers request, one or two crows are not a problem, but a flock of over 80 will decimate a barley field in hours, previous years farmer has tried a crow scarer (sounds like a shotgun going off at set intervals) but had complaints about that scaring horses and disturbing the neighbours. A larsen trap is a legal and effective way of dealing with a specific problem, the same as poison is a effective way of dealing with rats and mice.

 

[Clodagh]

Have none of you ever seen a magpie working a hedge in spring? It amazes me that you think they should be set free to kill hundreds of young birds. I have 3 larsen traps on the go and have caught a lot of crows and magpies. The bait bird has shelter and water and gets a rabbit or a couple of eggs to eat. When I catch a new one I (well actually my OH) culls the first one and replaces it with the new bird so there is a turnover. They aren't stressed when there is no one near them, at least no more so than a canary in a cage, they only throw themselves against the wire if you get close.
Magpies are cruel, vicious birds and are responsible for a decrease in our songbirds. Here on our farm we have lotsd of woods, old meadows and beetle banks and control the corvids and have flocks of yellowhammers, longtailed tits, loads of birds.

 

[RunToEarth]

I don't do shooting, and I've never seen these traps anywhere in my area - can you explain to me how they are used because from what I've read from the other posts on here they sound pretty barbaric, but you seem to be saying that the other posters are wrong - I'm just interested in a different viewpoint.
How are they destructive to the shooting injury - do the corvids actually kill the gamebirds?
Thanks

I'm not saying they are wrong, just difference in opinion, I've grown up amongst shooting, i realise the sport is loathed but mostly because it is misunderstood.
Corvids are egg snatchers are steal chicks of gamebirds in large numbers due to corvid population being allowed to run rife. Once a Corvid is caught it is put in a Larson trap which is a cage to attract a mate. Due to the coupling of corvids you must capture one from a different location to that you are trying to control populations in. The drciy bird attracks other birds to captivity. As a general note pigeons are not permitted as decoys as these attract birds of prey, and if these are in Larson traps you need to seek advice.

 

[Littlelegs]

I'm not against larsen traps because they kill magpies or because I don't believe they cause a problem. My issue with them is that i don't believe in caging wild birds for days. If there is a conclusive study that in actual fact once humans have gone the bird is stress free I'd be happy to think again. But otherwise I think shooting (or are there other methods?) Would be more humane.
Fwiw I'm not a hypocrite, I use a terrier rather than traps or poison for rats & mice, & don't object to bird scarers etc.

 

[Clodagh]

Trouble is shooting corvids is difficult as they are so clever, they are amazing birds really.
In the old days they left poisoned eggs out for them but understandably that is frowned upon nowadays.

 

[Foxhunter49]

I agree with Clodagh, and if you have sheep and have found a ewe on her back with her eyes pecked out, or her belly pecked open then you would really not care about trapping corvids.

As for badgers it has got ridiculous with their numbers.
A few years ago a survey was done in my area and a couple of lads came around wanting to know if two setts on our land were occupied. I asked "Which two?"
They had only two on the map yet there were four more. They also said there would be no more than 20 badgers in a large sett - who were they working for?
One sett has over 60 another 45 and the new ones that they didn't want to know about 24 - 28.

If the numbers were correctly estimated then people would realise that there are just to many of them

What about the hedgehog? I have not seen any for about 5 years because the badgers kill them.

The farming industry is blamed for the decline in song birds - I disagree and put it down to the grey squirrel which I shoot at every opportunity.

Leave the running of the countryside to those that really know it.
Nature is not kind.

 

[Littlelegs]

Like I say, if as mentioned earlier anyone can help direct me to research showing the birds are relatively stress free once humans are out of sight I'd reconsider. Nor am I arguing about culling them. But I think we'll have to agree to disagree on whether larsen traps are a humane/ acceptable way to go about it.

 

[Laafet]

what an absolutely stupid, sweeping generalisation to make. Asides from the fact that most farmers could never afford the fine for killing badgers, they are also most unlikely to theaten their position. Once you have killed badgers in a sett another badger will move in, possibly infected, farmers would not compromise themselves like that, have idiots writing rubbish on forums only weakens their position.
As far as Larsen traps go, it is most often people who have no comprehension of how they are used that wander about releasing them. You do not need a licence number to use them, but the traps have to conform with standards, if they have adequate food shelter and water leave them well alone, you have no idea how destructive corvids are to the shooting industry.

I have to disagree with you here, on the badger thing. When I first moved to this area (East Anglia) I commented on the numbers of seemingly intact badgers that are by the road side. I had ridden past a lot that had no signs of car trauma, but suspicious marks like gunshot. I was told by various people including game keepers that they were not road kill but shot.
I don't agree with Larsen traps and have in the past released birds that were on public bridleways in these traps without damaging the trap. However I do now possess an air rifle to try to control our massive pigeon and corvoid population. They cause so much mess and attack the smaller song birds that we feed on the stud. The crows/rooks are pretty clever and once I start going out practicing on targets to begin with they soon get the idea that it is not safe to be around and disappear off elsewhere. Pigeons are not so clever and usually end up being dispatched. We are now seeing a rise in birds of prey on the stud which is great.

 

[Copperpot]

I wondered where all the hedgehogs had gone!! Never see any now.

 

[Laafet]

I wondered where all the hedgehogs had gone!! Never see any now.

We have loads around here funnily enough! I wonder if that has anything to do with the numbers of badgers that I see dead on the roadside!

 

[Copperpot]

We used to have loads. Now we have loads of badger sets. Maybe your hedgehogs have decided to fight back and are ganging up on the badgers

 

[somethingorother]

Leave the running of the countryside to those that really know it.
Nature is not kind.

*roles eyes*

Yes, no one should ever question a practice or dispute it... Just let people get on with killing anything they don't like. Foxes, badgers, birds, mice, rabbits... I'm sure the list goes on...

All such distructive animals that kill other animals, we wouldn't know anything about that would we.

Maybe if we stopped messing with nature it might have a chance to even out. In natural habitats which are undisturbed by humans, the populations of certain predators and prey rise and fall in a cycle. For example, badger eats hedgehogs, hedgehog numbers decline (amoungst others), badger numbers then decline because there is less food... less prey for hedgehogs then means their numbers rise. It's not a difficult concept but humans seem to struggle with it.

Sick of this 'kill it' culture. And i just want to say i don't give a stuff about the shooting being affected by magpies. It's not because i don't understand it, it's because i have come to a different conclusion and i object to suggestions that anyone who does not agree with any form of killing 'is a bunny hugger who does not understand'.

 

[hairycob]

While we are on the topic our YO has a thing about moorhens & will quite happily kill any that make the mistake of wandering from the pond next door onto the yard. We liveries have been known to distract her while one of us shoos one back. None of us have been able to work out what the problem is with them. This seems the right thread to ask on.

 

[mollichop]

Clodagh - that is an acceptable method of using one to me. My ex is a gamekeeper and if the original decoy bird was despatched each time so the cage time was lessened that would be better.

However he didn't as said the original bird was the lure. Is this right?

As for your original question OP - there is no fixed time - providing the bird is checked as previous people have said.

 

[guido16]

Despite joking about releasing it. Bottom line for me is dont tamper with it. It is there as someones living. Not for fun. But. It DOES need a licence number on it. If nothing else. It is good practice.

 

[Clodagh]

However he didn't as said the original bird was the lure. Is this right?

.

I don't know, we do move them around, maybe that makes a difference? We don't shoot, except for the odd walk around, so its not life or death for us like it is with keepers who are paid to keep the numbers down, if we just make a dent thats OK by us. If we don't catch any for a few days we dispatch the lure bird. Sometimes we swap them with a keeper up the road.

And the person who said nature should sort itself out...you are against tryintg to save the Polar bear or tigers then? Natural extincion is the way forward?

 

[AdorableAlice]

I agree with Clodagh, and if you have sheep and have found a ewe on her back with her eyes pecked out, or her belly pecked open then you would really not care about trapping corvids.

As for badgers it has got ridiculous with their numbers.
A few years ago a survey was done in my area and a couple of lads came around wanting to know if two setts on our land were occupied. I asked "Which two?"
They had only two on the map yet there were four more. They also said there would be no more than 20 badgers in a large sett - who were they working for?
One sett has over 60 another 45 and the new ones that they didn't want to know about 24 - 28.

If the numbers were correctly estimated then people would realise that there are just to many of them

What about the hedgehog? I have not seen any for about 5 years because the badgers kill them.

The farming industry is blamed for the decline in song birds - I disagree and put it down to the grey squirrel which I shoot at every opportunity.

Leave the running of the countryside to those that really know it.
Nature is not kind.

Halaluya, pity there are not more people about with your knowledge and sense.

 

[Tormenta]

I agree that there has to be balance and in many situations and areas these days, a natural balance is not there (Not just because of predatory species either!) So humans have to intervene to maintain an environment and the animals in it. The decline in hedgehogs in not solely down to Badgers! The decline in songbird species is not solely the fault of corvids!

How many people own cats who hunt? I counted the amount of cats in my iimmediate area, one neighbour owns 7 alone who all go outdoors and hunt, another owns 3. That is ten in one tiny village street before I start counting 1 cat households. Have you seen a cat stalk the hedgerows looking for nests and chicks just out of the nest? I have on many occasions and the alarm calls of parent birds upsets me. It upsets me when I read threads saying 'My cat keeps taking home frogs, My cat just raided a Swallows nest, My Cat took home a dead baby Blackbird and yet some people say it is natural for a cat to do that and cruel to keep them indoors. So that's alright?

I have a friend who is a staunch supporter of Fox-hunting and countryside pursuits, she has pet cats who she keeps indoors at times but also has a large outdoor run with various branches and equipment to keep her cats amused, why? Because she says she does not agree with allowing her cats to damage wildlife.

If Magpies, Badgers etc are cruel relentless predators then what are our own pet cats?

 

[lannerch]

Why do magpies need to be dispatched ie the point of the Larsen trap ( excuse my ignorance and yes I have been bought up in the country ) what do they do? And crows for that matter although I realise the do peck I'll sheep ?

 

[lannerch]

ill sheep even

 

[touchstone]

I agree that there has to be balance and in many situations and areas these days, a natural balance is not there (Not just because of predatory species either!) So humans have to intervene to maintain an environment and the animals in it. The decline in hedgehogs in not solely down to Badgers! The decline in songbird species is not solely the fault of corvids!

How many people own cats who hunt? I counted the amount of cats in my iimmediate area, one neighbour owns 7 alone who all go outdoors and hunt, another owns 3. That is ten in one tiny village street before I start counting 1 cat households. Have you seen a cat stalk the hedgerows looking for nests and chicks just out of the nest? I have on many occasions and the alarm calls of parent birds upsets me. It upsets me when I read threads saying 'My cat keeps taking home frogs, My cat just raided a Swallows nest, My Cat took home a dead baby Blackbird and yet some people say it is natural for a cat to do that and cruel to keep them indoors. So that's alright?

I have a friend who is a staunch supporter of Fox-hunting and countryside pursuits, she has pet cats who she keeps indoors at times but also has a large outdoor run with various branches and equipment to keep her cats amused, why? Because she says she does not agree with allowing her cats to damage wildlife.

If Magpies, Badgers etc are cruel relentless predators then what are our own pet cats?

I think a recent survey showed that the effect of cats on wildlife is actually much lower than first thought, although I would agree that they do have an impact.

People have always kept cats, and they also do a great job of pest control on most farms/stables and I don't think that that is going to change anytime soon.

I have four cats, two are kept indoors and two allowed out, their effect on the wildlife is probably pretty minimal - both are elderly and have no teeth to speak of and are kept in at night.

 

[lannerch]

Just read yesterday's posts and answered my own question although I am not sure it justifys killing them !
There are loads of magpies and crows over here and also loads of pheasants! And happily no Larsen traps.