Layering up with rugs..?

[TGM]

What rugs have you got? There should be something different to make one a liner and one a stable rug.

As said previously, the liner rugs are Amigos - not quite sure what make the stable rug is off the top of my head. The difference is that the liner rug is shaped to fit snugly under the matching turnout rug without bits of the liner hanging out beneath the turnout, and also has fittings to attach the liner to the outer rug.

 

[glamourpuss]

not buying what???
that an under rug makes a horse warmer than putting 2 stables on that have the shinny outter layer??



We have done numerous test in our yard and that speaks for itself every horse which had an underrug was warmer than the one who had 2 stable rugs

and if you bother to put your hand between the layers when your horse wears 3 stable rugs as in the shinny top rug the air is cooler between the two upper most rugs.

That's what you want!!! You want the air to be cooler between outer layers of rugs. It means the trapped air is doing it's job & stopping heat moving AWAY FROM THE HORSE!
The whole point of rugging (whether you layer, use one rug or 5) is to keep heat next to the horse to prevent more heat taking it's place by convection & ergo energy being used up
Did you do any physics at school?

 

[Palindrome]

and if you bother to put your hand between the layers when your horse wears 3 stable rugs as in the shinny top rug the air is cooler between the two upper most rugs.

This only means there is no heat escaping from lower rug to upper rug, while there is heat escaping between liner and outer. The heat is coming from the horse and from what you say then layering several rugs is better at insulating.

ETA: sorry I think we cross posted

 

[TGM]

and if you bother to put your hand between the layers when your horse wears 3 stable rugs as in the shinny top rug the air is cooler between the two upper most rugs.

Which actually proves the point that the two rugs beneath are doing their job of keeping the heat in!

 

[Moya_999]

That's what you want!!! You want the air to be cooler between outer layers of rugs. It means the trapped air is doing it's job & stopping heat moving AWAY FROM THE HORSE!
The whole point of rugging (whether you layer, use one rug or 5) is to keep heat next to the horse to prevent more heat taking it's place by convection & ergo energy being used up
Did you do any physics at school?

I was using that to discribe what me and Jojo are getting at the horses were warmer with under rugs than 2 stable rugs in all the horses we checked ..................period.

All you do if your putting on a stable rug which is designed to be used solo (with or without a under rug) Is put weight on not warmth.

We humans normal use one coat then other layers underneath

jumpers
fleece
thermals

same thing

we do not put 3 coats on ( not normal people )

 

[TGM]

We tend not to put two or three coats on because it would be uncomfortable in the sleeve department - but as mentioned previously, we would put a padded gilet with a polyester outer (so similar to a stable rug) under a coat for extra warmth.

 

[glamourpuss]

I was using that to discribe what me and Jojo are getting at the horses were warmer with under rugs than 2 stable rugs in all the horses we checked ..................period.

All you do if your putting on a stable rug which is designed to be used solo (with or without a under rug) Is put weight on not warmth.

But any additional layer adds to the overall warmth. If you wear 2 jumpers & then a coat you are warmer than if you just wear 2 jumpers....more air is trapped, less heat lost by convection.
An 'under rug' is just a rug. Often with just a coating put on the outside of stable rugs to stop urine soaking in but made the same!

 

[glamourpuss]

Horseware liner rug - polyester lining, 100g filling, polyester outer

Mark Todd light stable rug - cotton lining, 150g filling, polyester outer.

Seriously other than the cotton lining on the stable rug What is the difference? Nothing! They are both just rugs!

 

[Moya_999]

But any additional layer adds to the overall warmth. If you wear 2 jumpers & then a coat you are warmer than if you just wear 2 jumpers....more air is trapped, less heat lost by convection.
An 'under rug' is just a rug. Often with just a coating put on the outside of stable rugs to stop urine soaking in but made the same!

well please explain whyevery horse that had a rug and under rug were warmer than those who wore 3 thin stable rugs.

Sorry but we have tested this over and over and over with different types of rugs over.

We swapped rugs around with horses same result

for warmer horse use a rug and under rug and not 3 stable rugs

an under rug is desinged to be worn under a stable rug


A stable rug is designed to be worn on top not underneath

 

[NinjaPony]

I really fail to see the difference between a 200g stable rug and a 200g liner both with a shiny outer.

 

[lizness]

Seems ok if they fit right but can't bear it when a thick stable rug is stuck out the back of a turnout soaking up water and pulling on the horses withers.

 

[glamourpuss]

well please explain whyevery horse that had a rug and under rug were warmer than those who wore 3 thin stable rugs.

Sorry but we have tested this over and over and over with different types of rugs over.

We swapped rugs around with horses same result

for warmer horse use a rug and under rug and not 3 stable rugs

an under rug is desinged to be worn under a stable rug


A stable rug is designed to be worn on top not underneath

They may be designed to be worn on top but they work just as efficiently underneath as an 'under rug' [takes a deep breath & uses s-l-o-w voice] they are made the same just with an outer to try & stop moisture seeping into the rug. ALL modern day rugs (stable/under rug/liner) are a variation on cotton, nylon & polyester.

 

[Moya_999]

They may be designed to be worn on top but they work just as efficiently underneath as an 'under rug' [takes a deep breath & uses s-l-o-w voice] they are made the same just with an outer to try & stop moisture seeping into the rug. ALL modern day rugs (stable/under rug/liner) are a variation on cotton, nylon & polyester.

I am talking about those who use 2 -3 4 stable rugs on top of each other as warmth (where it does not) instead of a under rug+ stable rug. Wearing more than 2 stable rugs does not IME give the warmth only the weight.

 

[Moya_999]

Seems ok if they fit right but can't bear it when a thick stable rug is stuck out the back of a turnout soaking up water and pulling on the horses withers.

<<< keeps her mouth shut as my under rug sticks out the back of her t/o rug, when his head is down grazing.

 

[GinaGeo]

I am struggling to see the difference between the 'stable' rugs I use, nylon lining and nylon outer to the 'under rugs I have, nylon lining and nylon outer. They are exactly the same, neither move under rugs and I've never had rug slipping issues or any rubs, with this combination? I'm either using badly designed liners (horse ware) or well designed stable rugs (weatherbeeta)!!?

I've tried using the liners with cotton outers under turnout rugs and they just absorb the wet, if the horse rolls in mud and get soggy and horrid.

I also tend to keep the same 'under layer' on the horse, so they don't get a cold rug on, just a change the top layer - far harder with liners than stable rugs! (They do of course get checked and groomed daily)

Horse is also definitely warmer with three rugs than two - the state of his bed, ear temperature and general mood proves it

 

[PolarSkye]

I always layer - for multiple reasons . . . 1) the H/W rugs he came with, while lovely, are really heavy even when dry . . . when wet I can't imagine that they are comfy to wear - so to get use out of them in the coldest/wettest weather, I stick a rainsheet on top so that my horse doesn't have half his bodyweight of wet rug pulling on his withers and shoulders; 2) he is out with a serial rug basher - L/W rainsheets are a hell of a lot cheaper than M/W and H/Ws so he always wears a "sacrifice" rug (case in point, came in with the tail flap of his sacrifice rug in pieces today - will retire that one and may have it repaired at the end of the season depending on how many other casualties we have . . . but will be using another sacrifice rug tomorrow, tail flap liberally doused with some noxious substance); and c) (and this is just me), I HATE sending multiple rugs off to be cleaned at the end of the season - if I put a cheap rainsheet over the top of a M/W and my mud-loving grey rolls in the muddiest patch of muck in the field (which he does at least ten times a day), my M/W rugs don't need cleaning. Seemples.

P

 

[saddlesore]

I really fail to see the difference between a 200g stable rug and a 200g liner both with a shiny outer.

You're not alone!

 

[dorito]

I am struggling to see the difference between the 'stable' rugs I use, nylon lining and nylon outer to the 'under rugs I have, nylon lining and nylon outer. They are exactly the same, neither move under rugs and I've never had rug slipping issues or any rubs, with this combination? I'm either using badly designed liners (horse ware) or well designed stable rugs (weatherbeeta)!!?

I've tried using the liners with cotton outers under turnout rugs and they just absorb the wet, if the horse rolls in mud and get soggy and horrid.

I also tend to keep the same 'under layer' on the horse, so they don't get a cold rug on, just a change the top layer - far harder with liners than stable rugs! (They do of course get checked and groomed daily)

Horse is also definitely warmer with three rugs than two - the state of his bed, ear temperature and general mood proves it

Yes, this is the crucial point. Those of you that make a distinction between 'stable' and 'under' rugs - what is the difference exactly? Apart from under rugs presumably being cut to fit their corresponding outer? Which is neater and helps under layers stay drier and cleaner, but I can't believe has any effect on how warm it keeps the horse.

 

[PolarSkye]

Yes, this is the crucial point. Those of you that make a distinction between 'stable' and 'under' rugs - what is the difference exactly? Apart from under rugs presumably being cut to fit their corresponding outer? Which is neater and helps under layers stay drier and cleaner, but I can't believe has any effect on how warm it keeps the horse.

When I put my horse out in the field, I don't put anything on him (in terms of layering) that will get wet or muddy and won't cope . . . no fleeces, no thermatexes, no under blankets. He has stable rugs and turnout rugs . . . he sometimes sleeps in his turnouts, but he is never turned out in any of his stable rugs - they are not waterproof or hard wearing enough.

P

 

[Tiddlypom]

I really fail to see the difference between a 200g stable rug and a 200g liner both with a shiny outer.

You're not alone!

A stable rug is made from heavier duty and stiffer exterior material than a liner. It also comes with its own surcingles etc. It makes it bulkier and more unwieldy for the horse, as well as being more likely to slip.

I'd use a stable rug as a layer purely as a stop gap measure, but the liners are IMHO much better at the job.

 

[marmalade76]

not buying what???
that an under rug makes a horse warmer than putting 2 stables on that have the shinny outter layer??



We have done numerous test in our yard and that speaks for itself every horse which had an underrug was warmer than the one who had 2 stable rugs

and if you bother to put your hand between the layers when your horse wears 3 stable rugs as in the shinny top rug the air is cooler between the two upper most rugs.

Scientific tests with thermometers? You are talking balls, sorry.

 

[marmalade76]

I was using that to discribe what me and Jojo are getting at the horses were warmer with under rugs than 2 stable rugs in all the horses we checked ..................period.

All you do if your putting on a stable rug which is designed to be used solo (with or without a under rug) Is put weight on not warmth.

We humans normal use one coat then other layers underneath

jumpers
fleece
thermals

same thing

we do not put 3 coats on ( not normal people )

I often wear two coats when it's really cold, and I can assure you two are warmer than one.

 

[saddlesore]

A stable rug is made from heavier duty and stiffer exterior material than a liner. It also comes with its own surcingles etc. It makes it bulkier and more unwieldy for the horse, as well as being more likely to slip.

I'd use a stable rug as a layer purely as a stop gap measure, but the liners are IMHO much better at the job.

The heavier weight, more expensive ones are but the cheaper ones ( like Saxon) are identical apart from the surcingles. I have and use both and they both do the job from what I can see.

 

[Holzdweaver]

My horses winter wardrobe consists of:
100g stable rug
200g stable rug
300g stable rug
400g stable rug
lightweight 0g detachable neck turnout, well two actually as i have a spare in case he trashes an outer!

I put on the appropriate weight rug depending on what he needs at that time (currently in a 200g) and for turnout i pop the waterproof over the top. Hes stabled at night with adlib haylage, in the field during the day with adlib haylage. When bringing in, his outer waterproof layer gets hung up to dry if needed and it always dries overnight, unlike my friends whos rugs are still heavy and damp come morning. I then undo the straps, and quickly quarter him to check for injuries and to brush any mud off, still retaining most of the heat in the rug when i do up the straps again, i dont like putting a cold rug on his back.

The good points to this method is that in previous years he had rug rubs and had to wear a vest, now he doesnt and no rubs, this is mostly thanks to the fit of the rugs as i found a make which fit him well and bought all the same make, except for the 400g as they only went up to 300g! but also down to the reduction in weight. He doesnt seem to be in any way restricted with two layers when hes blasting down the field kicking his heels up.

Id never add two stable rugs and an outer though, if he felt actually cold and shaky with a 400g rug on while stabled with adlib haylage then i would be calling a vet!

Another added bonus is that all the stable rugs fit into my washing machine, so when i swap a rug weight, the one which was worn gets washed and dried and took up the next morning so every rug weight change is a clean rug.

I also dont have to waterproof more than two rugs, saves on storage space too.

None of my rugs have ever slipped either, again more due to the fit rather than the method

 

[saddlesore]

Scientific tests with thermometers? You are talking balls, sorry.

Takes all sorts I guess...

 

[GinaGeo]

But my stable rugs don't have that tough outer - they have exactly the same outer as my liners. They do have surcingles, but they don't move!

 

[irishdraft]

Well my horses have lived out 24/7 for 12 years fully clipped without the use of liners, I don't own any.They have 200g T/O plus thin stable, if very cold thick stable or just HW turnout have survived & are fit & healthy thus far, I always check under rugs every am and have never had them cold.

 

[Moya_999]

Scientific tests with thermometers? You are talking balls, sorry.

No need for profanity

Were you there when we tested rugs and lining ??

Did you see the results on the horses
do you know the rugs we tested out???

My guess is the answer is no

I have been around my horses long enough to know they are warmer with a stable/NZ with an underrug than wearing 3 stable rugs one on top of the other.

 

[twiggy2]

A stable rug is made from heavier duty and stiffer exterior material than a liner. It also comes with its own surcingles etc. It makes it bulkier and more unwieldy for the horse, as well as being more likely to slip.

I'd use a stable rug as a layer purely as a stop gap measure, but the liners are IMHO much better at the job.

a surcingle makes it MORE likely to slip? if that is the case why do surcingles exist at all?

 

[marmalade76]

No need for profanity

Were you there when we tested rugs and lining ??

Did you see the results on the horses
do you know the rugs we tested out???

My guess is the answer is no

So you have no proof, then.

Sorry, but my horse will be just as warm whether or not I choose to put a liner, stable or wool rug under his turn out. I happen to use liners because they are more convenient for me and are more comfortable for him (a wool rug would rub and slip if left on out in the field and liners are lighter than a stable rug 'cause it doesn't have surcingles and buckles). As the fabric on both sides of both my liners (Horsewear and weatherbeeta) are much the same as the outer fabric on my (one and only) stable rug, you have no argument AFAIC.