Legal advice re AWOL groom needed please!

Agree that you can't give a negative reference - but as she worked for you for two years, you must have been satisified with her work (until she did her runner).
She maybe did have her reasons...you don't know...
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has anyone though to speak to the girl there may be more reasons for her just walking out ppl normally have other problems when you just walk out of a job out of the blue.....

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Yes I went to see her. She said that her job interfered with her social life and she was fed up with not having every weekend off and that I should accept that her social life should come first. She told me that I should be doing the mucking out so that she could spend more time riding.
I offered her a week off to think about it and she laughed and told me to get into the real world!
 
What was her working pattern? Days/hours/breaks etc.

You should be mucking out? Was there not some discussion about the job description, expected tasks etc?
Was this her first full time job?
 
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Her next prospective employer will find it rather strange when they ask for a reference and it's not from you!! Then if they do contact you, you can tell them the truth

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You are not allowed to give bad reference's now, but you can however refuse to give a reference.
 
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Yes I can understand why a young girl who has a social life wouldn't want to work every single weekend.

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She didn't work every weekend. Maybe one in four. She'd already had three weekends off on the trot but the weekend that I needed to be away at a competition clashed with a party that had been arranged days before. From November to March she has every weekend off. I don't feel that I was unreasonable in expecting her to work the odd weekend when I was away
 
A right bummer of a situation, but I agree with Shilasdair, you need to think about whether it's worth it.

Even if you do win in court as such, there's still no guarantee you'll get the money owing to you.

Once you've deducted the holidays that have been taken over the amount that has been accrued, would the remaining amount cover any legal costs and the money you feel is owing to you?
 
She's was 27 years old. Had previously worked for an international showjumper and then another livery yard.
She started at 7.30, stopped for a paid break at 9, worked from 9.15-10.30 on the yard, then rode one before lunch had lunch 12.30-1.30, rode or lunged another two between 1.30 & 3, brought in the few that were out. Hayed and mixed up feeds and was finished by 4.30. I then fed at 5.30, refilled haynets & skipped out in the evening. In the morning I skip out ten boxes - rubber mats. She rode for the same time as I did but she was of the impression that I should be doing all of the yard duties whilst she rode. She was employed as a general groom and a list of duties was included in her contract. She was assisted by two other juniors so it's not as if she was worked into the ground! When I am away at events then my OH (who has his own occupation and doesn't get home until 6pm) oversees the yard in the evening and the two juniors live on site. Basically at 4.30pm her day finished and she had no worries about the yard at all.
 
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A right bummer of a situation, but I agree with Shilasdair, you need to think about whether it's worth it.

Even if you do win in court as such, there's still no guarantee you'll get the money owing to you.

Once you've deducted the holidays that have been taken over the amount that has been accrued, would the remaining amount cover any legal costs and the money you feel is owing to you?

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Certainly wouldn't bother about pursuing it through tribunals but just feel amazed that even though a signed contract is in place it not really worth having. I bet it would be a different story if I fired her with no notice!
 
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A right bummer of a situation, but I agree with Shilasdair, you need to think about whether it's worth it.

Even if you do win in court as such, there's still no guarantee you'll get the money owing to you.

Once you've deducted the holidays that have been taken over the amount that has been accrued, would the remaining amount cover any legal costs and the money you feel is owing to you?

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Certainly wouldn't bother about pursuing it through tribunals but just feel amazed that even though a signed contract is in place it not really worth having. I bet it would be a different story if I fired her with no notice!

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Depends on the grounds for dismissal. Athough, yes, I agree it is weighted in favour of the employee.
 
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Yes I can understand why a young girl who has a social life wouldn't want to work every single weekend.


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She didn't work every weekend. Maybe one in four. She'd already had three weekends off on the trot but the weekend that I needed to be away at a competition clashed with a party that had been arranged days before. From November to March she has every weekend off. I don't feel that I was unreasonable in expecting her to work the odd weekend when I was away


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Ah my apologies; I thought you said that she worked 6 days a week - meaning she worked 6 days a week, every week.
 
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Yes I can understand why a young girl who has a social life wouldn't want to work every single weekend.




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sorry if you work in the equine industry you expect to work weekends. when i worked on yards we were all young yet still work every weekend you have eves.

if you want 9-5 and weekends off its not the right job, the job shouldnt change for you.
 
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Yes I can understand why a young girl who has a social life wouldn't want to work every single weekend.

sorry if you work in the equine industry you expect to work weekends. when i worked on yards we were all young yet still work every weekend you have eves.

if you want 9-5 and weekends off its not the right job, the job shouldnt change for you.

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There are so many grooms desperate for work, too, I am sure employers can easily find those who are willing to work weekends, and probably for less than NMW too.
I wonder why the original poster didn't just replace the groom straight away, so she wouldn't have all those problems with entry fee cancellations?
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I don't think it's that quick and easy to find a replacement is it? If it is, then it must be that the grooms and the employers aren't getting in touch with each other that readily. I'm struggling to find someone at the mo and don't know where these "grooms desperate for work" are Shils.
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Yes I can understand why a young girl who has a social life wouldn't want to work every single weekend.

sorry if you work in the equine industry you expect to work weekends. when i worked on yards we were all young yet still work every weekend you have eves.

if you want 9-5 and weekends off its not the right job, the job shouldnt change for you.

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There are so many grooms desperate for work, too, I am sure employers can easily find those who are willing to work weekends, and probably for less than NMW too.
I wonder why the original poster didn't just replace the groom straight away, so she wouldn't have all those problems with entry fee cancellations?
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i agree i wish i had found an employer/job like this. i would still prob be in the industry now. i think thats the problem to many grooms around looking for work employers think its ok to treat them bad. i dont mean OP. I worked p/t on one yard that was fantastic a lovely family showing, the only time i was paid NMW.
 
This no doubt has made your blood boil.

My advice would be to pay her any money owed but only at the end of this months when it becomes due with the P60.

If anyone asks for a reference I would politely refuse to give a reference and let them come to their own conclusions. If she has done this to you she will do it again to another employer!
 
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Yes I can understand why a young girl who has a social life wouldn't want to work every single weekend.

sorry if you work in the equine industry you expect to work weekends. when i worked on yards we were all young yet still work every weekend you have eves.

if you want 9-5 and weekends off its not the right job, the job shouldnt change for you.

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There are so many grooms desperate for work, too, I am sure employers can easily find those who are willing to work weekends, and probably for less than NMW too.
I wonder why the original poster didn't just replace the groom straight away, so she wouldn't have all those problems with entry fee cancellations?
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i agree i wish i had found an employer/job like this. i would still prob be in the industry now. i think thats the problem to many grooms around looking for work employers think its ok to treat them bad. i dont mean OP. I worked p/t on one yard that was fantastic a lovely family showing, the only time i was paid NMW.

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Why did you leave the industry, immybrook, if I may ask?
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to be honest i just got fed up with the way people treated us (not just me other people on the yard) and the pay. i would have worked the hours for little pay. But i expect to be treated with respect when i work hard on there yard.
never mind.

i now work in the pub industry with mim wage and even longer hours, but i enjoy it.
 
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to be honest i just got fed up with the way people treated us (not just me other people on the yard) and the pay. i would have worked the hours for little pay. But i expect to be treated with respect when i work hard on there yard.
never mind.
i now work in the pub industry with mim wage and even longer hours, but i enjoy it.

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As I thought.
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Thanks for answering, but I see a contradiction here. I think if you personally are not willing to work as a groom because of the poor wages/conditions/hours/respect, then you really have no place expecting other people to.
And yes, I used to work in the industry. And no, I wouldn't do it again, and yes, it is because the job is unattractive for the pay offered.
Hence why people have problems replacing grooms.
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It's not true that you can't give a bad reference. If the facts are a matter of record such as notice not worked you can include this in writing so long as you can prove it's true if necessary.

Your groom had been with you for sometime, it just sounds like she's had enough of the early starts and limited social life that that type of job entails. She's sees all her friends having a lot more fun and decides she wants to be like them instead.

I'd pay her what she's owed (days worked less any holidays she's taken over the pro-rated number allowed) and just write off the lost competition fees against the good work she's hopefully did over the last two years before this recent bad behaviour.
 
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Others have given you advice on how to handle this legally. I'd just like to say though, there are always 2 sides to every story and people do not usually just up and leave without having good cause to.

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In the horse world, they do. I had one just 'disappear' because she suddenly decided she wanted to go on holiday with her boyfriend the following week. She had no holiday owing, and we had a VERY busy week coming up - so if she had asked, I would have declined. She didn't even tell me she was going!! She was owed 3 days wages when she left and asked another member of staff if she could collect it for her. THAT member of staff declined - said if she wanted it she would have to ask ME for it - she didn't!

Another threw a strop when I - VERY politely - asked her and another girl on the yard who she was pally with - if she could PLEASE, just for once, do what I asked WITHOUT arguing about it!! She became abusive and said I NEVER followed her advice!
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She was 23, totally unqualified - and gee, they WERE my horses, on my yard, with me paying the bills! I always listened to her opinion (which she insisted on giving me almost EVERY time I asked her to do anything - and explained why were were going to do it my way! She and her pal just walked out - no notice - middle of the day - AND left her horse here for a week for me to look after!!! The pal has since done EXACTLY the same to at least 3 other employers in the area (none of whom asked for a reference from me!)

Another just walked out when I spoke to her (perfectly reasonably!) about drinking on the job. (I'd found a large tonic bottle in the corner of the feed room which was almost pure gin - and previously noted occasional VERY red cheeks and odd mood swings!)

I could write a book about wierd staff. Thankfully I now have a good team - and I value them highly!
 
i appreciate that you have had alot of comments and perhaps contrasting opinions.

But i agree with the previous comments about talking to ACAS.

My background is Human Resources and i can confirm that even if you do have a contract of 1 months notice, you cannot make someone work their notice. Any holiday pay that is owed must be paid. However, if she has already taken too much holiday, you can only deduct monies if she gave her consent to this in her contract.

I would focus on getting someone repsonsible to help you and your horses, however disappointing it maybe.
 
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to be honest i just got fed up with the way people treated us (not just me other people on the yard) and the pay. i would have worked the hours for little pay. But i expect to be treated with respect when i work hard on there yard.
never mind.

i now work in the pub industry with mim wage and even longer hours, but i enjoy it.

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that was my reason for leaving too (tho i have since gone back to the same type of work
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a simple 'thanks' at the end of a hard day shouldn't be too much to ask for
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to be honest i just got fed up with the way people treated us (not just me other people on the yard) and the pay. i would have worked the hours for little pay. But i expect to be treated with respect when i work hard on there yard.
never mind.
i now work in the pub industry with mim wage and even longer hours, but i enjoy it.

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As I thought.
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Thanks for answering, but I see a contradiction here. I think if you personally are not willing to work as a groom because of the poor wages/conditions/hours/respect, then you really have no place expecting other people to.
And yes, I used to work in the industry. And no, I wouldn't do it again, and yes, it is because the job is unattractive for the pay offered.
Hence why people have problems replacing grooms.
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sorry i think i confuesed you i asnt agreeing about people some work long hours and little pay, i agree that OP shouldnt have a problem finding a replacement. as i said i could put up will the hours and pay + experience, if i was respected for working hard, a thank you doesnt cost anything
 
Well as I say, there is often 2 sides to every story, however I am not suggesting the OP is not saying how it actually is
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. I've always been blessed with lovely grooms/workers, mind you if I'd had the French girl I had for 2 months earlier in the year, permanently, then I would not be able to say that for all of them - she really was the pits!

I worked as a rider and then stud manager for a while (many moons ago before I had my own yards) and I have to say my employers were lovely - I was lucky I was given great pay, really nice coachouses and cool cars, along with wonderful horses to ride.
 
I used to work on a showjumping yard and saw several grooms leave with no notice, just not turn up one day! Generally you would see them at a show the next week working for someone else and they would have arranged it all before walking. They would then do the same to the new employer until their reputation on the circuit got so bad nobody would take them. It was a great job, I was there for many years so there seemed to be no obvious reasons for it.
 
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I used to work on a showjumping yard and saw several grooms leave with no notice, just not turn up one day! Generally you would see them at a show the next week working for someone else and they would have arranged it all before walking. They would then do the same to the new employer until their reputation on the circuit got so bad nobody would take them. It was a great job, I was there for many years so there seemed to be no obvious reasons for it.

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Equally, I worked in a livery yard/riding school up north, run by a couple. I had three working pupils who were training for their BHS exams so gaining only a small wage. They all lived in, in a flat.
Well, one morning I was horrified to find that the boss had sacked one of them, let's call her Katy, just because she had fallen out with the boss's daughter (her best friend of about 10 years). Although Katy was just 16yrs old, and her parents were abroad on holiday at the time, my boss sacked her and threw her off the premises, and Katy hadn't done anything wrong at all.
Luckily, a local gamekeeper put Katy up for the few days til her parents returned and could pick her up....but who does that to a 16yr old girl?
I left a while later; as soon as I quit, my working pupils quit too...which led my boss to accusing me of being a 'pied piper' luring them away....the reality was I was the buffer between her rages and them.
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You put in your thread she abandoned 20 horses to go to a party, who in the right mind would expect one groom to do twenty horses on her own! I take as you have had to cancel everything you do only have this one momber of staff.
 
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