Leo flipped and smashed a carriage to pieces tonight

Nudibranch

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Very frightening indeed. Thank goodness you're all ok. I hope you get to the bottom of it and that he can have an alternative career at the end of it. That kind of thing is always in the back of my mind when I'm driving and as you say, if there'd been cars involved....scary stuff. Fingers crossed for a good outcome.
 

DabDab

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Yikes, scary. Glad everyone is ok at the end of it. It's so difficult when you just don't know a horse's history.

Do you think he would take to logging? Pulling work without the carriage...
 

Leo Walker

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Ive been tossing and turning all night. I cannot believe how lucky I have been. Just a series of fluke events that meant we got him stuck and got him out rather than him bolting through the village.

Hes not driving again. This is the 3rd incident like this. Ive made excuses the other times but the reality is something is wrong in his head. If I work him very hard and keep him tired hes fine. But I cant sustain that.

I adore him and will do everything in my power to keep him safe. Im going to look for settled herd turn out for him and see if he will accept it. I've got this awful feeling that I'm doing it for me not him but I have to try.
 

meleeka

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Sorry this happened to you and I hope you get answers. My cob was driven in a previous home. The scenario that happened to you is the reason I haven’t learnt to drive my boy myself. To spook with a rider on board is one thing, but all that equipment is frightening when things go wrong and I think I’d be a nervous wreck.
 

Red-1

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I am so sorry to hear this, I have followed your story and been happy for your triumphs.

If he has done it twice before and now again, I think you are right to stop driving. Life is too short. I hope he finds another role. And you another driving horse. (I recollect you were thinking about a second - youngster - so presume you have the capacity for another. X
 
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So, so sorry to here this LW: it must have been a horrible situation to be in. How are you and your boy today? Let us know what the vet says too x
 

Spottyappy

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So sorry to read this after both of your difficulties in the past.
Am seriously glad you’re both ok, and it wasn’t worse.
Have nothing useful to add, but hope you find a way to keep him, and you, happy.
 

Tiddlypom

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How frightening, but very well done for containing the situation as well as you did. You say he's done it 2 times before, is that with you?

I'm so sorry about this, after all the work and care you've put into him and how well you've been doing with him.
 
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Clodagh

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I think you have made the right decision but I am devastated for you.
You can only try the turnout thing and see how it goes, one day at a time. Best if luck.
 

southerncomfort

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How very frightening.

FWIW I think you've made the right decision. He might never do it again, but it's not knowing that will give you sleepless nights and endless worry.

I'm so glad you are all ok.
 

HeyMich

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Gosh, what a fright! Glad you are both ok with no physical injuries - mental/emotional injuries may appear in time!

As others have said, it could be something really simple that spooked him.

My horse spooked last night when I was long-reining her, which could have gone seriously wrong! She's a guzzle guts so as we walked past a hedge she grabbed a mouthful, only to get a thorny twig stuck under her bit. She spooked, I dropped one of the lines but managed to hold on to the other one enough to work my way up to her head and calm her down. Thorny twig removed, and a calm walk back to the yard. My life flashed before my eyes!

Hope you are both feeling ok about it all today, and you manage to collect all the damaged bits of the carriage! Sounds like he needs a break, and you need to get your thoughts in order before you make any rash decisions. You were both doing so well - hopefully not the end of the road for Team Leo!

xx
 

pennyturner

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Sorry to hear this. I think something similar happens to every driver at some point, and it scares the bejeezus out of you.

If he's fundamentally unsafe, then of course it's the right decision not to drive him again. I would encourage you to get on the box seat again (new pony?) soon though - it gets harder the longer you leave it.
 

AShetlandBitMeOnce

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Not much else to add other than I'm sorry to hear this happened, and I hope you are okay. I have so loved hearing of your journey, so perhaps this could be the start of a new one for you.
xx
 

Nudibranch

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HeyMich, that kind of behaviour in harness is a big no. It's very different to in hand or under saddle. There's simply far greater potential for serious damage to horse, driver and other people. Only this week a lady was killed when her horse bolted with the carriage. I believe no other vehicles were involved.
LW I'm not trying to make you feel worse btw! Just to point out to non drivers that it's a very different ball game.
 

Leo Walker

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Sorry to hear this. I think something similar happens to every driver at some point, and it scares the bejeezus out of you.

If he's fundamentally unsafe, then of course it's the right decision not to drive him again. I would encourage you to get on the box seat again (new pony?) soon though - it gets harder the longer you leave it.

Its in his head. There was an incident where he went at a driving trial but I got him back. It was caused by a carriage rattling behind him. It was pretty clear he'd been in an accident by his reaction, but we have such a close relationship and he did come back to me, so I thought we would be ok.

Theres been a couple of weird incidents with him, one involving him trying to jump through a hedge! I put that down to feed as hes very reactive to starches. Well at least thats what I thought, but actually I'm wondering if that was me making excuses for him.

The incidents have escalated and last night had the potential to be utterly horrific. When we picked the carriage up this morning and I looked at the scene in the cold light of day, I cannot believe he tried to go through a solid fence, and I cannot believe that by fluke he got caught on two huge, concreted gate posts. If he hadnt he wouldnt have stopped and the carriage would have almost certainly tipped and it doesnt bear thinking about the damage he would have done!

The force involved must have been amazing. He snapped a solid steel shaft, and split the gate post. Its 5 feet high and 2 feet wide of solid wood.

I'm trying to borrow a suitable saddle so I can have an instructor assess him for me and see if he has a future as a riding pony. Hes had lots of professional schooling previously and a novice friend has been wandering around bareback on him, so we shall see!

Thank god I didnt get a youngster. No idea why I didnt. I dont usually dither like that. Maybe I knew this was coming on some level?! Anyway, now I'm going to be looking for a nice 4yr old. Clean slate so I'm not dealing with previous issues, and something without any major quirks. I adore Leo but sometimes I find dealing with him utterly exhausting!
 

Michen

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Its in his head. There was an incident where he went at a driving trial but I got him back. It was caused by a carriage rattling behind him. It was pretty clear he'd been in an accident by his reaction, but we have such a close relationship and he did come back to me, so I thought we would be ok.

Theres been a couple of weird incidents with him, one involving him trying to jump through a hedge! I put that down to feed as hes very reactive to starches. Well at least thats what I thought, but actually I'm wondering if that was me making excuses for him.

The incidents have escalated and last night had the potential to be utterly horrific. When we picked the carriage up this morning and I looked at the scene in the cold light of day, I cannot believe he tried to go through a solid fence, and I cannot believe that by fluke he got caught on two huge, concreted gate posts. If he hadnt he wouldnt have stopped and the carriage would have almost certainly tipped and it doesnt bear thinking about the damage he would have done!

The force involved must have been amazing. He snapped a solid steel shaft, and split the gate post. Its 5 feet high and 2 feet wide of solid wood.

I'm trying to borrow a suitable saddle so I can have an instructor assess him for me and see if he has a future as a riding pony. Hes had lots of professional schooling previously and a novice friend has been wandering around bareback on him, so we shall see!

Thank god I didnt get a youngster. No idea why I didnt. I dont usually dither like that. Maybe I knew this was coming on some level?! Anyway, now I'm going to be looking for a nice 4yr old. Clean slate so I'm not dealing with previous issues, and something without any major quirks. I adore Leo but sometimes I find dealing with him utterly exhausting!

I don’t profess to know anything about driving, but if a horse has so little self awareness it was willing to go through a fence, I’m not sure it’s any safer under saddle- just restricted risk to the rider rather than pedestrians/cars so much?
 

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Oh LW I've just caught up with this. How devastating for you. I'm guessing just continuing with driving trials away from the road is not an option? Presumably you couldn't keep him fit enough.
 

Mule

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I'm sorry about this. It sounds very scary. I hope that things will work out for both of you.
 

hopscotch bandit

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Gosh strangely I was watching 'country pleasure driving crash gone wrong' on YouTube yesterday as someone has put a link on FB about it. You can see by watching how quickly things can escalate and go wrong with driving. I had a go at it years ago when I groomed for a carriage driving team whose horses and carriages were used for films, but I felt a bit vulnerable up there to be honest and wasn't keen. I think its the distance between horse and rider that put me off if you know what I mean.

Hope you are feeling better soon
 

Surbie

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Its in his head. There was an incident where he went at a driving trial but I got him back. It was caused by a carriage rattling behind him. It was pretty clear he'd been in an accident by his reaction, but we have such a close relationship and he did come back to me, so I thought we would be ok.

Theres been a couple of weird incidents with him, one involving him trying to jump through a hedge! I put that down to feed as hes very reactive to starches. Well at least thats what I thought, but actually I'm wondering if that was me making excuses for him.

The incidents have escalated and last night had the potential to be utterly horrific. When we picked the carriage up this morning and I looked at the scene in the cold light of day, I cannot believe he tried to go through a solid fence, and I cannot believe that by fluke he got caught on two huge, concreted gate posts. If he hadnt he wouldnt have stopped and the carriage would have almost certainly tipped and it doesnt bear thinking about the damage he would have done!

The force involved must have been amazing. He snapped a solid steel shaft, and split the gate post. Its 5 feet high and 2 feet wide of solid wood.

I'm trying to borrow a suitable saddle so I can have an instructor assess him for me and see if he has a future as a riding pony. Hes had lots of professional schooling previously and a novice friend has been wandering around bareback on him, so we shall see!

Thank god I didnt get a youngster. No idea why I didnt. I dont usually dither like that. Maybe I knew this was coming on some level?! Anyway, now I'm going to be looking for a nice 4yr old. Clean slate so I'm not dealing with previous issues, and something without any major quirks. I adore Leo but sometimes I find dealing with him utterly exhausting!

Sounds like you are making the right decision not to drive him again. I have loved following your progress, as a longtime HH lurker as well as when I signed up. I hope you can find the right solution for both of you, and to find another horse to drive. Well done on your quick reactions.
 

pennyturner

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Accidents will always happen, but driving horse has to be willing to 'come back' to you no matter what has startled him. It can't be helped if they shoot forward, but panic and flight, well, it's just too dangerous. There has to be trust, both ways.

I'll never forget the look on the face of a (very good) pony of mine, when we hit an unseen obstacle in the grass at about 20mph, ripping out the end of the traces, and sending the 2 wheel vehicle nose-diving into the turf and me flying out like superman. He shot away up the road, of course, but skidded to a halt after 20 yards, turned 180, and gave me a 'mum WTF?' look, shaking like a leaf, until I got to him. He was able to be put to again with no harm done, because his trust was absolute.

You see the same thing with trials ponies, who turn over a carriage and wait patiently on the floor for it to be righted, as though it happens every day. (then again, driving like that, perhaps it does :D)

If he's not cut out for it, better to call it a day whilst you and he are still in tact. Carriages can be mended.
 

Leo Walker

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Hes a funny one. We get cones caught up all the time and he doesnt turn a hair. We've gone through and over obstacles and he waits to be freed. Something has happened to him previously and it seems it just needs the right set of circumstances and it sets him off. He planned to spook which is fine, but then something triggered as he turned and he flipped. Thats not fine :(

Once we got him out I went to his head and he was flinching away from me expecting a beating. He was lame and in pain when I got him and I suspect he was a bit of a git and someone has tried to beat it out of him and just screwed him up.

I am as sure as I can be that he wont do it riding. I suspect I could drive him and he wouldnt do it again for a while but it would be incredibly reckless and selfish of me to do that now I know what hes capable of. But my god, will I miss it! Theres not another horse on the planet that compares to him when hes on form.
 

fidleyspromise

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So sorry to read this (and your updates throughout the post).
Leo is very lucky to have landed with you.
I am so glad there were no injuries and you have clearly thought the whole situation through so I hope you're able to find a solution for you both.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Accidents will always happen, but driving horse has to be willing to 'come back' to you no matter what has startled him. It can't be helped if they shoot forward, but panic and flight, well, it's just too dangerous. There has to be trust, both ways.

I'll never forget the look on the face of a (very good) pony of mine, when we hit an unseen obstacle in the grass at about 20mph, ripping out the end of the traces, and sending the 2 wheel vehicle nose-diving into the turf and me flying out like superman. He shot away up the road, of course, but skidded to a halt after 20 yards, turned 180, and gave me a 'mum WTF?' look, shaking like a leaf, until I got to him. He was able to be put to again with no harm done, because his trust was absolute.

You see the same thing with trials ponies, who turn over a carriage and wait patiently on the floor for it to be righted, as though it happens every day. (then again, driving like that, perhaps it does :D)

If he's not cut out for it, better to call it a day whilst you and he are still in tact. Carriages can be mended.

Our first horse was a gelding who had retired from driving holiday-makers on Blackpool's Golden Mile. Ridden, he once fell over on the road and stayed down until the rider struggled out from under him and told him to get up. The only thing that he ever reacted to was jets of steam coming from woollen mills. That shows how long ago it is! A driven horse has to be absolutely trustworthy.
In your position, OP, I would be looking for an older proven driver, for my next horse.
 

MyBoyChe

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I am so sorry to read this. Ive been following your progress and know youve had a rough old time health wise too. You had been making such wonderful progress and this must be hugely disappointing. Ive only ever driven a horse once, many years ago and I felt so out of control, it was being behind rather than on top, it just felt weird and I was terrified so I do admire anyone who drives a horse, it is most definitely not an easy option. My first thought was a sting or a bite, my super chilled highland performed a rather nifty airs above the ground a couple of weeks ago after a horse fly bite, terrified my hubby who was walking out with us and just shows how the calmest of animals can react at times. You obviously know him well enough to realise it is something more though and a brave and sensible decision to call it a day. I do hope you can find something for him to do to keep him occupied and manage to find yourself something else to carry on driving x
 

Leo Walker

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I wish! He spooked, then out of nowhere blind bolted while spinning. I pulled him off balance enough that he only went 90 instead of 180. He went over the road, up a drive and tried to go through a hedge/5 bar gate fence. It was a blind bolt. If I hadnt pulled him off balance he'd have gone.

He got the shaft stuck on one side of 2 massive fence posts which held him. He went beserk but couldnt break free. I managed to get him out, thanks to quick release, and he span a few times and then flinched when I went to him like he thought I was going to beat him. As soon as I touched him it was like the switch flipped back and he was instantly calm and back to normal..

I am as sure as I can be that hes had an accident previously and they've tried to beat it out of him. Theres been 3 other incidents of weird behaviour including jumping through a hedge and freaking out. He flips then instantly calms down. I've made excuses for him but its escalated and its a miracle hes not hurt himself or someone else.

He smashed the carriage up and bent the shafts, and when I checked the second gate post is 5 foot high and 2 foot wide solid wood and hes cracked the whole length of it so he did nearly get free which would have been catastrophic.
 

Mule

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I wish! He spooked, then out of nowhere blind bolted while spinning. I pulled him off balance enough that he only went 90 instead of 180. He went over the road, up a drive and tried to go through a hedge/5 bar gate fence. It was a blind bolt. If I hadnt pulled him off balance he'd have gone.

He got the shaft stuck on one side of 2 massive fence posts which held him. He went beserk but couldnt break free. I managed to get him out, thanks to quick release, and he span a few times and then flinched when I went to him like he thought I was going to beat him. As soon as I touched him it was like the switch flipped back and he was instantly calm and back to normal..

I am as sure as I can be that hes had an accident previously and they've tried to beat it out of him. Theres been 3 other incidents of weird behaviour including jumping through a hedge and freaking out. He flips then instantly calms down. I've made excuses for him but its escalated and its a miracle hes not hurt himself or someone else.

He smashed the carriage up and bent the shafts, and when I checked the second gate post is 5 foot high and 2 foot wide solid wood and hes cracked the whole length of it so he did nearly get free which would have been catastrophic.

I had a horse that would flip like a switch too and go in to a blind bolt. It's very unnerving and unfortunately you can never trust them
 

Goldenstar

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Well he did not get lose and you live to fight another day . I have to say the difficulty in finding sound safe quality driving horses was one of the reasons I gave up .
I sold the last of my stuff at the end of last month .
 
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