Toffee44
Well-Known Member
Or boar?? Or crows?? Or rabbits?? Not just the fox.
Lets justify Hunting for sport!:)
- Thread starter AnaV
- Start date
monkeybum13
Well-Known Member
I must be blind, I haven't read that anyone said that?
Star_Chaser
Well-Known Member
I agree with Countryman whole heartedly. We do have a duty of care to our environment and that includes maintaining healthy populations of fox. Fox decimate other species including your wild song bird population, ground nesting birds many of whom are facing serious issues with reductions in population. A healthy fox is one that can feed itself, have you ever seen a fox that is pretty much starved to death?? I have purely because it was unable to catch and kill anything to eat and had little or no food available beyond raiding the bins. That is no life for a fox and you should not wish it on them. If you want to have other species population success or at least maintaining them at the rate they are then you have to removed SOME of the predator population. We have no wolves or other predators that would keep the fox in check we destroyed those populations so we have to take on that role - it is a duty.
If you think that all animals have a right to life you are correct they do but they also have a right to a fight for survival which is what they have always done so that they do not go into old age suffering. A quick death is much more suitable than a slow and painful one.
When you look at the other options available and if YOU ever have to do it you'll find hunting with hounds where the best of the foxes get a chance to live another day is by far the BEST option. It might not be a pleasant end but it is swift. I have to mop up other peoples messes when they fail to shoot cleanly and believe me there is nothing more upsetting than seeing a pregnant fox or one with obvious cubs or a young and healthy fox killed because there is no way for the wheat to be sorted from the chaff in the population looking through the end of a gun. The hunt have the decency to provide a breeding season to avoid killing pregnant or nursing foxes and to allow young the opportunity to mature. The gun has NO breeding season.
I don't think anyone has the right to make the decision about how an animal should be dispatched to maintain a healthy population unless you are prepared to get out there and do the job YOURSELF so that you can see first hand just how difficult it is to do. You might not like hunting but believe me its the best thing for the population. At the rate they are being shot we are decimating yet another wild population whilst leaving the town bin raiders increasing in numbers! I know what I would rather have a wild healthy fox than a townies bin bandit!
If you think that all animals have a right to life you are correct they do but they also have a right to a fight for survival which is what they have always done so that they do not go into old age suffering. A quick death is much more suitable than a slow and painful one.
When you look at the other options available and if YOU ever have to do it you'll find hunting with hounds where the best of the foxes get a chance to live another day is by far the BEST option. It might not be a pleasant end but it is swift. I have to mop up other peoples messes when they fail to shoot cleanly and believe me there is nothing more upsetting than seeing a pregnant fox or one with obvious cubs or a young and healthy fox killed because there is no way for the wheat to be sorted from the chaff in the population looking through the end of a gun. The hunt have the decency to provide a breeding season to avoid killing pregnant or nursing foxes and to allow young the opportunity to mature. The gun has NO breeding season.
I don't think anyone has the right to make the decision about how an animal should be dispatched to maintain a healthy population unless you are prepared to get out there and do the job YOURSELF so that you can see first hand just how difficult it is to do. You might not like hunting but believe me its the best thing for the population. At the rate they are being shot we are decimating yet another wild population whilst leaving the town bin raiders increasing in numbers! I know what I would rather have a wild healthy fox than a townies bin bandit!
Molasses
Well-Known Member
Bravo N_S_C
wonderful post and agree with every word
wonderful post and agree with every word
Star_Chaser
Well-Known Member
A couple of things spring to mind.... I take it you are not adding to our population woes by breeding yourself?? Now in the past or in the future producing children.
The second thing is that if you knew ANYTHING about foxes you would know they are indiscriminate killers they will kill, maim, injure whatever they can no matter what the numbers. Like others I have lost birds to the fox game birds, poultry and sadly ground nesting wild birds. They don't just kill what they will eat they will kill everything then take what they can carry. For an example... 150 polish chickens in less than two hours, 2 turkeys who heads it bit off leaving the body behind and the heads a short distance away. My worst for foxes were new born foals... YES I SAID FOALS!! We had a line of foxes that over years taught themselves to wait whilst the mare birthed and then took it before it had a chance to stand and whilst the mare was in no condition to defend it.
If you want to change the human population then do you bit don;t breed, don't use a car, grow your own food, don't use modern technology (like for an example YOUR PC) because of its impact on the planet.
Star_Chaser
Well-Known Member
If your desperate for a taste (Alec you are FAR braver than me!) you could try Clarissa's recipe http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/4853388.stm
We may not eat them but there are other cultures where they are pretty much on the menu and nothing wasted.
You'll find numerous fox recipes on the net... http://www.wildmanwildfood.co.uk/pages/recipes.htm#fox
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Dry Rot
Well-Known Member
It worries me that people are always so keen to protect animals that are cute and furry but seem quite happy to discriminate against the less attractive ones. Animals should be entitled to equal rights.
Personally, I am in favour of putting the endangered Black Rat on the protected list. These fascinating rodents were once common in our domestic houses but got bad press after The Black Death. That disease is easily controlled in the modern world by the use of antibiotics.
Conservationists should be the first to offer this dear little native creature a home. But do they? The heck they do!
Personally, I am in favour of putting the endangered Black Rat on the protected list. These fascinating rodents were once common in our domestic houses but got bad press after The Black Death. That disease is easily controlled in the modern world by the use of antibiotics.
Conservationists should be the first to offer this dear little native creature a home. But do they? The heck they do!
wench
Well-Known Member
Yum yum...
burge
Well-Known Member
It worries me that people are always so keen to protect animals that are cute and furry but seem quite happy to discriminate against the less attractive ones. Animals should be entitled to equal rights.
Personally, I am in favour of putting the endangered Black Rat on the protected list. These fascinating rodents were once common in our domestic houses but got bad press after The Black Death. That disease is easily controlled in the modern world by the use of antibiotics.
Conservationists should be the first to offer this dear little native creature a home. But do they? The heck they do!
I've always said if foxes were ugly no-one would give a *****!
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
Exactly! I have always said that if a fox resembled a dog sized cockroach there would be far less antis about.
happyhunter123
Well-Known Member
This is boring. We've been round this hundreds of times before . You can read the same old arguments on old threads.
As for the question 'justify why anyone has the right to deny an animal its life?', that clearly goes a lot, lot further than hunting and covers many of the things people do with animals.
Come on, the hunting argument has been played out far too often, and has been going on for years. You've heard all these points made before,and you've heard anti points made before. Why bother???
. You can read the same old arguments on old threads. As for the question 'justify why anyone has the right to deny an animal its life?', that clearly goes a lot, lot further than hunting and covers many of the things people do with animals.
Come on, the hunting argument has been played out far too often, and has been going on for years. You've heard all these points made before,and you've heard anti points made before. Why bother???
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Kenzo
Well-Known Member
''Now other animals eat and drink as much as they need to survive. They do not for no reason kill other species''
Foxes do.
Foxes do.
AnaV
Well-Known Member
Because some of us are just nasty people who only care about having a jolly good day out, with people of the same class
Bravo ol' girl you managed to sum it up in one sentence.
Now America's segregation has nothing to do with its town and country folk failing to embark on a jolly murdering session. Racial segregation has occcured for a long time and is down to the nature of humans. Our race if not struck by curiousity has a barrier where when we do not understand something we become afraid and even inferior.
If you wish to go gallop with fellow acquaintances, go ahead and do so, find a field which has preferbly not been allocated by farmers to grow crops on and potter across it. There is no need to have to kill anything to do so.
AnaV
Well-Known Member
The behaviour 'Molasses' projects for instance is one which appears inferior. For one flaw is they tend to flip the conversation around in situations where they cannot handle a civilised debate/discussion and say 'So what about you then' despite it having no concern on the matter of the topic.
'Rudolp_bum' -
If you are failing to find the remark made by so called 'Country man' I shall explain.
He told me that man created the landscapes. I found this rather amusing for I am settled on scientists big bang theory whereby the earth was created shortly after it around 4.5 billion years ago. At this point humans did not exist therefore consequently, had no effect on its Lithosphere.
I disagree with the culling of any animal whether it be deer, badger (or even toad). For how can we consider any other animal a pest when we are the most parasitic organism on earth. I believe the views of hunting are based solely on people mentality. Whereby if you value human life above everything else, you will most likely not oppose hunting. With myself I see animal life equal to human life. Just because we are at the top of the food chain and have a high IQ should not justify us the right to slay other creatures needlessly.
'Rudolp_bum' -
If you are failing to find the remark made by so called 'Country man' I shall explain.
He told me that man created the landscapes. I found this rather amusing for I am settled on scientists big bang theory whereby the earth was created shortly after it around 4.5 billion years ago. At this point humans did not exist therefore consequently, had no effect on its Lithosphere.
I disagree with the culling of any animal whether it be deer, badger (or even toad). For how can we consider any other animal a pest when we are the most parasitic organism on earth. I believe the views of hunting are based solely on people mentality. Whereby if you value human life above everything else, you will most likely not oppose hunting. With myself I see animal life equal to human life. Just because we are at the top of the food chain and have a high IQ should not justify us the right to slay other creatures needlessly.
DollyDolls
Well-Known Member
I thought this is exactly what we now get up to given the Hunting Act......?
So really, we dont have to justify it, as there is no more hunting as you're refering to. -They all get shot instead.
Copperpot
Well-Known Member
Cos it's the most fun you can have on a horse
AnaV
Well-Known Member
Clearly you have not seen enough hunts. It happens very frequently where when a fox has been sighted the so called 'Masters' have allowed the hounds to chase the fox instead of shooting it. Only the other week when the Grove and Rufford Hunts were about they sighted a fox and a friend of mine witnessed the fox along with them run through not one but two open fields which were not occupied by any livestock so open range in which perfect to shoot it and they let the hounds chase it as not one gunshot went off. The dog got away however, it shows even if you have a list of reason for killing foxes because you believe they are pests you follow around low life people who totter around to see hounds rip foxes to shreds.
As for it being the most fun you can have on a horse? You clearly have a wild imagination of your own there if you think of hunting being the most fun you can have on a horse. It is sad how truth is many of you do go on hunts and dont actually take into consideration what goes on.
As for it being the most fun you can have on a horse? You clearly have a wild imagination of your own there if you think of hunting being the most fun you can have on a horse. It is sad how truth is many of you do go on hunts and dont actually take into consideration what goes on.
SO1
Well-Known Member
I would say to Ava point above about not shooting the fox you have to be a very skilled marksman to be able to shoot to kill an small animal that is running especially if you are also riding a horse at the sametime, in this case you might miss and the fox may get injured but not die straight away and then suffer.
As a child I hunted and I did enjoy it but I don't think I really understood what was going on beyond having a good time galloping about and jumping things. I never set out thinking oh goody I might get to see fox ripped apart by dogs isnt that fun and I doubt many if any people who hunt would be interested in paying to just see a fox being killed without the riding part.
I think in the same way that lots of people enjoy eating a steak or other meat they don't connect the meat with the actual killing of an animal as they have not seen it happen.
Now I am older and wiser I have realised that if I do not feel comfortable with the idea of seeing a fox killed by dogs up close, it would be hypocritical to hunt so I don't.
I think if people are aware of what goes on and don't mind that they might see a fox being killed up close then that is their decision. However I am not sure children should go hunting if there is a risk that they might see a fox being killed as it might be upsetting for them if they don't quite understand what might happen.
As a child I hunted and I did enjoy it but I don't think I really understood what was going on beyond having a good time galloping about and jumping things. I never set out thinking oh goody I might get to see fox ripped apart by dogs isnt that fun and I doubt many if any people who hunt would be interested in paying to just see a fox being killed without the riding part.
I think in the same way that lots of people enjoy eating a steak or other meat they don't connect the meat with the actual killing of an animal as they have not seen it happen.
Now I am older and wiser I have realised that if I do not feel comfortable with the idea of seeing a fox killed by dogs up close, it would be hypocritical to hunt so I don't.
I think if people are aware of what goes on and don't mind that they might see a fox being killed up close then that is their decision. However I am not sure children should go hunting if there is a risk that they might see a fox being killed as it might be upsetting for them if they don't quite understand what might happen.
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Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
We are on the outskirts of a town, mainly we get town foxes. Not too long ago we had an old injured dog fox turned up, a definite country fox from the size. One I suspect from our location would have been an easy kill for the hunt pre ban. Instead, thin, old & limping it turned up at the farm we keep the horses at. Too nervous of towns to bin raid, it decimated the chickens & geese, killed one of the cats, several other local cats went missing at the same time. Then with remaining birds kept safe, neighbours cats kept in, & our remaining semi feral cat glued to the side of a horse 24/7, it lived on the odd bit of spilt horse feed, livestock feed, bird food etc. By the time a good shot was able to kill it, poor thing was emaciated. We had the right to kill it for two reasons. Firstly, the birds, our cat, & the neighbours pets many lives are more important. Secondly, a swift death for the fox is far kinder than starving to death naturally. And the hounds when the fox first started struggling to feed itself would have been quicker still.
Also you may want to look up the different meanings of 'landscape' as opposed to 'the earth' or 'earths crust'. I think you will find they have very different meanings.
Also you may want to look up the different meanings of 'landscape' as opposed to 'the earth' or 'earths crust'. I think you will find they have very different meanings.
AnaV
Well-Known Member
Thats ok then SO1? the fox should be caught instead by the pack of 50 odd dogs and tossed around like a rag doll? Thats perfectly alright is it? It
Foxes hunt for survival. They will not just kill a brood of chickens for no reason. The way foxes feed is once they find a food source they will try and kill as much of it as they can. They will then eat one or two and bury the rest so they can return to it when need be. Do we not do the same? We raise cattle for ourselves, its planned out feeding. We know there will food tomorrow, the day after and the day after that.
With the brains we have we should look for ways around foxes getting poultry such as improving chicken runs, hen houses.
Foxes hunt for survival. They will not just kill a brood of chickens for no reason. The way foxes feed is once they find a food source they will try and kill as much of it as they can. They will then eat one or two and bury the rest so they can return to it when need be. Do we not do the same? We raise cattle for ourselves, its planned out feeding. We know there will food tomorrow, the day after and the day after that.
With the brains we have we should look for ways around foxes getting poultry such as improving chicken runs, hen houses.
Countryman
Well-Known Member
I dont understand the preoccupation you have with what the hounds do to the body of the fox. The fox is dead. Whether or not the hound's eat it and pull it around is utterly irrelevant.
AnaV
Well-Known Member
Instead of attempting to prolong its life by say leaving it a few scraps you instantly would rather shoot it. So it was beyond help was it? A friend of mine had 14 cats in the country who all went out and there were foxes where they lived not once were they harmed by them. Foxes are nocturnal thus active at night, to avoid harsh natural processes like such perhaps keeping your pet cat(s) indoors during night?
Countryman
Well-Known Member
One could equally argue that hunting foxes is just as much a harsh natural process that should be allowed to happen as foxes hunting for food is.
AnaV
Well-Known Member
Would you like to die being pulled apart alive or after suffering heart attack (after a pack of hounds or such commotion puts a strain on you weak heart)? I wouldnt and I couldnt imagine any other animal would like to.
Countryman
Well-Known Member
We all know foxes are killed almost instantly. The precise method of death is brutal yes, but quick and humane. By the way, do you have any evidence whatsoever for suggesting hunted foxes die from heart attacks?
AnaV
Well-Known Member
One could not use that as an excuse because in the way of the human hunting nowadays it is not hunting for food but for sport.
AnaV
Well-Known Member
I do not but peaceful death is not one which comes to mind as your tossed in the air then pulled one way then the other.
EAST KENT
Well-Known Member
Bet it is bloody painful being cremated then.Have a good Christmas.
Hunters
Well-Known Member
Just read the posts:
If you've ever seen a fox killed out hunting & not that many have, then you will know that it is a quick death, much like when my terrier kills a rat.
Simples...
The 'sport' of hunting was not in the 'kill' but the 'chase'.
If you've ever seen a fox killed out hunting & not that many have, then you will know that it is a quick death, much like when my terrier kills a rat.
Simples...
The 'sport' of hunting was not in the 'kill' but the 'chase'.
Carefreegirl
Well-Known Member
I wish I'd taken a picture of the large mange (sp?) ridden fox that walked in front of my car the other week. Pitiful creature that would of been glorious if in a good healthy condition.
It stopped in the middle of the road and scratched for a good few seconds then stood back up and walked over to the other side and then stood there looking at me. I wish I'd been in OH's 4x4 as it needed putting out its misery. As I drove off I thought about him and knew that one more cold night or one more fight will give him a long slow painful death.
(excuse any typo's, on phone)
It stopped in the middle of the road and scratched for a good few seconds then stood back up and walked over to the other side and then stood there looking at me. I wish I'd been in OH's 4x4 as it needed putting out its misery. As I drove off I thought about him and knew that one more cold night or one more fight will give him a long slow painful death.
(excuse any typo's, on phone)