Lets justify Hunting for sport!:)

[Littlelegs]

Pmsl anaV. So when you've captured the starving wild fox, pretending for a moment that's easier than it is, & rang a wildlife charity who agree to come out, how do they prevent the fox just starving elsewhere? Healthy foxes don't starve, they can hunt or scavenge. So when the old/ill/injured fox is released it will just starve somewhere else.
Good intentions & a gun aren't the only requirements, being an excellent shot is the important one. Death from gangrene is horrible, & being good enough to kill outright isn't a skill the majority have. Perhaps instead of following the hunt, if sabs actually wanted to do some good, they could train with guns till they are able to kill at a distance first shot, & they could volunteer to sit up several nights in a row to take out the unhealthy or old foxes.
Feeding country foxes is quite the most stupid idea I've ever heard. Do you have any concept of a wild animal? I imagine not. Pensioners are different in that we have state pensions, afaik we don't provide that for wild animals.
Also Pmsl at the idea of getting a charity out, unless you have a camera crew in situ. Early one morning I found what was left of a vixen & cub in the middle of a main road, in a town. Clearly an rta, problem was my car scared away the remaining live cubs from their dead mother. They sat at the roadside crying, clearly far too young to survive even a life of bin raiding without a mother. And not too fussed about a human & a parked car with barking dogs in. They wouldn't have starved, if they hadn't been hit by speeding traffic in a few hours, then they were fact enough to get killed by a pet dog. Guess what the animal charities said? Leave them, they will be fine. Eventually rspca came when I threatened to ring the local paper.
Anyway op, hope you enjoyed your vegan xmas dinner.

 

[Shutterbug]

It is ironic that the only thing that really makes me feel like supporting hunting is antis...!

Same - I'm usually pretty much on the fence and have posted at length on these kinds of posts and discussed both sides with lots of people on these very forums, (and never a cross word have I received) in order to better understand both sides - but nothing is going to push me over the fence and into the pro camp like an anti who cant form a reasonable well worded argument for their side and who resorts to name calling

anaV I suggest you learn a/ some manners and b/ how to put your opinion across in a civilized and mature manner

 

[sophiebailey]

LOL-ed at many of these posts, all of these anti-hunting eejits spouting crud about mother nature have obviously never had their lives blighted by vermin such as the fox/rats/mice etc. If you had vermin causing havoc in your home would you put down rat poison or feed the poor little thing some cheese and let it stay?! Hypocrisy!! If you had ants in your living room would you put down powder or put down some sugar for them? If you had a wasps nest would you spray it or put some orange juice in a bowl for them? Have you never in your life swatted a fly? What gave YOU the right to end the life of that fly by splatting its guts up a window?!

The food chain has existed since the dawn of time. Those higher in the food chain kill those lower in the food chain. The method is irrelevant.

There have been numerous studies done on predators such as lions/polar bears/tigers whereby they have killed for sport and then left their catch for other animals to scavenge. Watched a documentary on it a few days ago on sky!

This is all irrelevant anyway, foxes don't die anymore as a result of the ban. So what's happened now? The countryside is over run and foxes are forced into the cities - running around peoples houses biting babies.

All this new age eco s**t winds me up. You use electricity, you drive a car, you read books + newspapers and wipe you bum on loo roll made of paper made from trees, you use leather products, you eat meat. What is worse, a fox quickly killed by the hounds or the horrific life of the battery hen that laid the egg you ate for your breakfast?!

Cut out the holier than thou cr** and bore off. You're just as guilty as everyone else for polluting this planet.

#ignorant #townie

 

[Littlelegs]

Just before hunting was banned, I recall seeing a pair of antis (festooned in 'ban the hunt' stuff) cheerfully buying value eggs in Tesco. I wonder if op is exactly the same type of hypocrite? Ditto poison or traps for rats or mice. Poison is a horrid slow way to go, but rats aren't as cute as foxes, so that's ok.

 

[Moomin1]

LOL-ed at many of these posts, all of these anti-hunting eejits spouting crud about mother nature have obviously never had their lives blighted by vermin such as the fox/rats/mice etc. If you had vermin causing havoc in your home would you put down rat poison or feed the poor little thing some cheese and let it stay?! Hypocrisy!! If you had ants in your living room would you put down powder or put down some sugar for them? If you had a wasps nest would you spray it or put some orange juice in a bowl for them? Have you never in your life swatted a fly? What gave YOU the right to end the life of that fly by splatting its guts up a window?!

The food chain has existed since the dawn of time. Those higher in the food chain kill those lower in the food chain. The method is irrelevant.

There have been numerous studies done on predators such as lions/polar bears/tigers whereby they have killed for sport and then left their catch for other animals to scavenge. Watched a documentary on it a few days ago on sky!

This is all irrelevant anyway, foxes don't die anymore as a result of the ban. So what's happened now? The countryside is over run and foxes are forced into the cities - running around peoples houses biting babies.

All this new age eco s**t winds me up. You use electricity, you drive a car, you read books + newspapers and wipe you bum on loo roll made of paper made from trees, you use leather products, you eat meat. What is worse, a fox quickly killed by the hounds or the horrific life of the battery hen that laid the egg you ate for your breakfast?!

Cut out the holier than thou cr** and bore off. You're just as guilty as everyone else for polluting this planet.

#ignorant #townie

Ha ha!! Do you really think that foxes have only just appeared in cities because of the ban?

Bless.

 

[sophiebailey]

Hiya Moomince, no I don't think it's the only reason they're in the cities, but I also don't think that it's a coincidence that post ban the number of urban foxes has increased. The number of reported incidents where urban foxes have attacked domestic pets and occasionally children has increased, especially in the last two years, and the amount of work pest control companies in cities undertake with relation to foxes has also increased.

Whilst I don't believe the ban is the SOLE reason for this increase, it seems logical to think that if the rural population is so high at the moment and with foxes being quite territorial, if there's no space for them in the countryside they'll be forced to look further afield for hunting/scavenging grounds.

The hunt used to keep our farm fox free pre 2005, now the only method for my grandad to control the fox population is to pay to hire a shooter, who often misses the target and leaves the foxes on the fields half dead. Although this goes some way to controlling the population, he's still trying to find ways to stop the foxes from entering the calf pens and nipping at their legs, which they have done on numerous occasions. Once one even went into the barn and bit a cow that was lying down on the end of the nose! They're brave little ******'s!!

I'd like to apologise for name calling in my previous post, I was tired when I posted and the OP made me angry, as I'm fed up of being told that I'm the reason the world is suffering because I don't oppose fox hunting. I hate people with closed minded attitudes, rational debate is all well and good and I always accept opinions differ, but why start such a debate if you're not intending to listen to the other arguments?!

 

[bubbilygum]

Just before hunting was banned, I recall seeing a pair of antis (festooned in 'ban the hunt' stuff) cheerfully buying value eggs in Tesco. I wonder if op is exactly the same type of hypocrite? Ditto poison or traps for rats or mice. Poison is a horrid slow way to go, but rats aren't as cute as foxes, so that's ok.

It's not unknown for 'animal rights' protesters/hunt sabs to chase the hounds into roads/railways either, or terrify the horses and endanger their lives and the riders...

 

[Littlelegs]

No, I agree, antis have done some acts of cruelty for 'the cause'. I once had a housemate call me cruel for letting my terrier go ratting, & for hunting pre ban. Her cupboard load of cosmetics that had all been tested on animals were ok though. I think for some, animal rights are just a handy cause for anarchy. If they'd been born in houses with religion, they'd be committing horrid acts in the name of a god instead.

 

[Mossi]

To all of those who hunt, justify why anyone has the right to deny an animal its life?
Thank you

Some of us know where you are coming from Ana. Don't expect sympathy from farmers and so called sport hunters though, afterall, farmers send baby cattle, pigs and lambs to be murdered for consumption, when we humans don't actually need to eat them to survive. Humans are probably the largest set of vermin on the earth.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

Humans are probably the largest set of vermin on the earth.

Could I, perhaps, remind you of your species, as in "Human"? It isn't how I feel about myself, but I'm pleased to see just how contrite you are.

Alec.

 

[Littlelegs]

Pmsl I_s_s.

 

[AnaV]

I am aware of the concept 'Wild' animal and animal care if anything more so than most of you.

I did not directly insult anyone. As Eleanor Roosevelt once said-"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” - some of you must have a guilty consciousness to find what I have said offensive.

When I mentioned animal charities I did not have the RSPCA in mind for I am not keen on their way of dealing with abused/neglected animal cases.My thread here was to ponder why many of you thought it was okay to kill other defenseless creatures so if you cannot handle the pressure of answering and resort to swearing you must not be worthy of doing the deed you 'have' to do.
I see not the issues of killing for necessary consumption for it is part of this reality called 'survival' but where the problem arises for me is when some of you make a game of killing for pleasure/sport.

If you wish to discuss my knowledge of animals or how I choose to live send me a separate message because in relevance to this post it has none you are simply making yourself look foolish by trying to question me. It gives off as inferior behavior when one cannot answer a question given such as why they do or have done something they say 'so what about you then?'

It strikes me with some hilarity how a proportion of you act as though you see eye to eye with farmers whilst many others of you are 'neck and neck' with them in debates of which parts of their land you can drag your horses around on.

 

[Littlelegs]

In what way is killing animals for consumption necessary for survival in the uk? Nobody in advanced countries eats meat for survival, its purely for pleasure. I'm simply pointing out that those who support bloodsports are hardly the first group you should be pointing the finger at if you have a problem with taking an animals life. I think your lifestyle is actually very relevant op, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. As I said earlier, I can respect the opinion that humans have no right to take animal life if they are not a hypocrite & live 100% to that rule.
Which animal rights groups were you thinking of, the ALF?

 

[Nancykitt]

To me, the 'sport' is not to do with killing - I have never been on a live hunt, but I would still say that drag hunting / trail hunting are sport. It isn't competitive sport, but a lot of sports aren't necessarily competitive. I used to go rock climbing - I never competed, but I still considered it a sport. When hunting, I challenge myself to ride as well as I can. I did not ever see hunting as a competitive sport as described by so many antis - ie, a bunch of toffs v. a poor harmless defenceless fluffy animal. There is a skill to riding across country and a skill to working hounds, but we do need to establish a definition of 'sport' for the original question to be properly addressed.
I don't believe the original question was about 'sport' though - it was, really, a rhetorical question. OP does not believe in culling and is opposed to fox hunting. That's about it really. OP has not answered the question posed earlier about the best way to maintain a healthy fox population and I would have more respect for such people if they came up with an informed argument.

 

[Littlelegs]

Oops, freudian slip, not animal rights, animal charities. Make that the ALF & PETA.

 

[AnaV]

In the sense that if you do not have a balanced diet consisting of protein you are of ill health?

 

[Littlelegs]

Erm, no, meat is hardly the only source of protein available, nor the richest. Plenty of healthy vegetarians around, & people like myself who eat little meat. In my case due to the expense of buying meat raised & killed to decent standards. Humans don't need meat, we eat it for pleasure alone. Unlike hunting, which also serves a purpose. I realise you have little knowledge of wild animals, but surely you should have a basic idea of the human dietary requirements?

 

[{100649}]

LOL-ed at many of these posts, all of these anti-hunting eejits spouting crud about mother nature have obviously never had their lives blighted by vermin such as the fox/rats/mice etc. If you had vermin causing havoc in your home would you put down rat poison or feed the poor little thing some cheese and let it stay?! Hypocrisy!! If you had ants in your living room would you put down powder or put down some sugar for them? If you had a wasps nest would you spray it or put some orange juice in a bowl for them? Have you never in your life swatted a fly? What gave YOU the right to end the life of that fly by splatting its guts up a window?!

The food chain has existed since the dawn of time. Those higher in the food chain kill those lower in the food chain. The method is irrelevant.

There have been numerous studies done on predators such as lions/polar bears/tigers whereby they have killed for sport and then left their catch for other animals to scavenge. Watched a documentary on it a few days ago on sky!

This is all irrelevant anyway, foxes don't die anymore as a result of the ban. So what's happened now? The countryside is over run and foxes are forced into the cities - running around peoples houses biting babies.

All this new age eco s**t winds me up. You use electricity, you drive a car, you read books + newspapers and wipe you bum on loo roll made of paper made from trees, you use leather products, you eat meat. What is worse, a fox quickly killed by the hounds or the horrific life of the battery hen that laid the egg you ate for your breakfast?!

Cut out the holier than thou cr** and bore off. You're just as guilty as everyone else for polluting this planet.

#ignorant #townie

Totally agree!

 

[{100649}]

I do find the first part of your argument interesting... the distance of a man with a rifle or shotgun is relatively limited, the distance of wondering hounds in front of the huntsman with the gun, the horses and the riders some of whom maybe children and unused to the sound of a gun going off would make it DANGEROUS to actually shot the fox from a distance and leave the poor animal unlikely to be dead it would be more likely to be seriously injured leaving it at risk. It wouldn't be safe to take that shot for the fox or for the people and hounds around. It is certainly not easy to control a group of dogs the huntsmen do an admirable job but are not infallible. Then of course their is the ability of the person with the gun... NONE of us are a perfect shot.

I always find it fascinating the arguments for and against I actually did a whole years study into this at university and I must ask one question of you as this is YOUR debate on the topic so here goes:

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR SOLUTION TO MAINTAINING A HEALTHY FOX POPULATION?

given that feeding them only increases numbers as they will breed out of season. That animals not healthy cannot survive without human intervention or they suffer prior to death (usually from starvation). Survival of the fittest is the best way to cull inferior animals from a population.

Being enlightened in this matter I await your response with curiosity and am of course prepared to change my view if you are able to provide a suitable alternative. It really is very easy to be in the No Kill camp but few are able to offer a real and viable alternative when pressed.

What is your solution then Ana V?

 

[sophiebailey]

What is your solution then Ana V?

The fox population doesn't need maintaining, they're all such fluffy cute little critters and it's a joy to see them all running free in the towns and villages!

 

[dianchi]

Troll hunting is an alternative

 

[Star_Chaser]

AnaV it is interesting you quote Eleanor Roosevelt her father was a 'sportsman' known for his big game hunting.

I do think if you are going to raise a topic such as this which is bound to be controversial then you should have the decency not to slate with poor argument off topic others views. Healthy debate is one thing but if you cannot justify your own position then you do the topic no favours.

Personally I do not think it is the Anti's that gave the Hunting Ban its legality I think it is those of the population that fail to have an interest in the topic and an understanding of what it entails.

AnaV you would be wise to research your topic in future and at least have a workable alternative. I would still be interested in your solution.

 

[AnaV]

I do not think there should be an alternative. It is undeniably a sport just for mans pleasure which entails unecessary murder as I have once said before. You are prepared to pay £40-£60 to hunt wrongly believing you 'have' to in order to maintain a healthy animal population when you do not. It is not humans responsibility to kill off other animals. Foxes die off naturally from territorial dispute. Even if they prove pests to you here goes the phrase 'deal with it' by perhaps digging fences into the ground to protect your chickens/poultry.

 

[It's Me Megan]

The fox population doesn't need maintaining, they're all such fluffy cute little critters and it's a joy to see them all running free in the towns and villages!

I saw a particularly large urban fox yesterday whilst I was driving in the middle of middle of a housing estate... I confess to doing a double take because originally I thought it was a loose dog

 

[Simsar]

To all of those who hunt, justify why anyone has the right to deny an animal its life?*Thank you

AnaV if you are truely here for a reasoned debate, and you stand by you original question then you are also questioning modern vet practise, the problem with your question comes in the 'anyone'.

I was going to explain my view point having been a typically spoon fed towny anti, however I feel it will fall on deaf ears and do not wish to waste my breath!
Simon

 

[bubbilygum]

If humans don't have the right to kill animals, then what right do we have to interfere by 'helping' dying ones by taking them to wildlife rescue centres like you helpfully suggested?

I'm not particularly pro or anti hunting but I am anti-hypocrisy.

 

[Littlelegs]

Actually, anaV does suggest an alternative, starvation or from wounds inflicted by another fox in fights. How pleasant.

 

[Moomin1]

If humans don't have the right to kill animals, then what right do we have to interfere by 'helping' dying ones by taking them to wildlife rescue centres like you helpfully suggested?

I'm not particularly pro or anti hunting but I am anti-hypocrisy.

I am not getting involved in this thread to any more of an extent than this post, but I think the point in the whole 'helping dying animals and euthanasia or treatment at a centre' is that you are alleviating suffering and doing it humanely. The whole debate around hunting with hounds etc etc is that it is not considered humane and it is considered to inflict suffering.

Your point is a bit silly really, because that's like saying if people don't have the right to murder one another, then what right do they have to treat one in a hospital, or resuscitate.

 

[AnaV]

As Moomince Pie has said I think you are all starting to sound silly and pedantic.

 

[arizonahoney]

You're overlooking a crucial point, AnaV. This is a hunting forum, not an anti-hunting forum.

Now go take your pouting elsewhere, there's a duck