Let's start a debate... Why are horses so much more "naughty"

[tigers_eye]

I always thought welsh x arabs were mad as hatters! I really really really wanted one, a bright chestnut with flaxen mane and tail and 4 white stockings and a blaze as my 14.2 pony. That was my dream! Instead I got a far-too-pretty bay mare 14.2hh that was a cr*p jumper.....

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]

I think your view is perhaps a little idealistic

Yes, most horses will 'go' in a snaffle...but that doesn't mean it's the best bit to put the particular horse in. More important in my opinion is what works best for you and your horse and produces the best overall outcome.....happy horse AND happy rider.

BTW...both mine go in loose ring snaffles

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I'm sorry....I didnt mean to come across as strong as that....I think my point was that I dont agree with changing a horse's bit for the sake of it. If you have it in a bit that you feel it is unhappy with, then by all means, change it and see if something else works. But it riles me when people change - or insist that others should change - just for the sake of it, just because it is 'fashionable' to have a Myler/KK/Neuschule etc, as opposed to a good old loose ring/eggbutt snaffle! On the other hand, if the Myler/KK etc works better than the snaffle, than fair play!

 

[Honeypots]

[ QUOTE ]
8) PC culture - instructors that bark at you properly are now few and far between and there are too many out there that pander to their clients and give them unrealistic visions of their abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

So agree with this one..

I changed daughters RS because I had a lesson there myself and realised how clients were just going through the motions. My friend still goes there with her daughter and spends a fortune. They've been going 3 years and think they are competent riders but are both scared to go hacking/handle the horses and can't tack up on their own. I think thats disgusting. I was going to encourage to them to join our current RS but I think they'd be in or too much of a shock... Daughters instructor is really quite scary but ever so good.

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh god not the snaffle debate. It bores me so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not debating anything...just doing what works for me

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
5]Equine colleges are turning out people who have no idea

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain. Do you mean that BSc graduates can't muck out?
S

 

[kirstyhen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5]Equine colleges are turning out people who have no idea

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain. Do you mean that BSc graduates can't muck out?
S

[/ QUOTE ]

I know a few like that!! One girl that didnt know you shouldnt leave shaving forks in the stable with the horse, but thats more to do with being an idiot than having a degree!! My OH has a sports degree and even he can cope with the complex science that is mucking out!!

 

[Daphnelia]

There is no content in a BSc Equine Sports that is even related to stable management. Its all about more advanced nutrition, biomechanics, psychology etc. If you want to learn stable management then do an NVQ. The degrees are for those wanting to go into research or nutrition or further study

xxx

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no content in a BSc Equine Sports that is even related to stable management. Its all about more advanced nutrition, biomechanics, psychology etc. If you want to learn stable management then do an NVQ. The degrees are for those wanting to go into research or nutrition or further study

xxx

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.
Do people really think a student would study for THREE years to learn how to muck out? Or that a graduate would want to work shovelling sh1t when the average graduate starting wage is £16k...?
And equine college students ARE in real demand by employers...trust me...so FE students can pick and choose jobs.
S

 

[H's mum]

Wow! Well said I think you've got some extremely valid points there!

Kate x

 

[kirstyhen]

Ive already done the degree! As part of one of our first year modules we had to look after the uni horses when the NDs went on half term, so there was a small amount of stable management involved!
If i wanted to learn stable management i would of done my BHS. Working on yards taught me enough about mucking out!

 

[zigzag]

Apology if I offended anyone, we used to have the equine students, on "work experience" as part of their course, TBH I babysat them, even though I was the same age or a bit older, they had no horse sense what so ever. One student didn't even no how to out a rug on... you would have thought that if they were doing a degree on horses whether sports/science based etc they would have some idea of horse mangement before enrolling on a course ..

 

[BBs]

Horses have changed, feeding has changed, people have money to purchase flashy horses that not necessarily match their riding abilties.
Tack has changed.
Gone are the proper old PC days. I remember riding ponies off headcollars in fields during lunch at school.
Local shows have even changed.

I also think the fun factor has gone.

Everyone just seems to be interested in the latest gadget the latest fad, whether it works or not.
Ppl doesnt seem to wanna go back to basics and just rush.

 

[H's mum]

[ QUOTE ]
I also think the fun factor has gone.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's a very valid point vix!
Kate x

 

[kirstyhen]

No offence taken! There are many people doing the NVQs at our uni that dont know one end of a horse from the other!

 

[BBs]

Everyone is just so serious!
Even the young kids of today! theyve gotta have the flashy ponies, or the latest fad.
Ponies are all clipped out, spurs and strong bits.
Kids used to go into local sjing classes and get eliminated or whatever and just shrug it off. Now the pony is beaten, child screams at parents and storms off WTF?

As a kid, we'd spend all day at a local show. Many a time never coming home with a rosette but we had fun and enjoyed our day. Even when it poured with rain and pony wouldnt load in the lorry on the way home lol

 

[H's mum]

Absolutely! We'd drive the shetland pony to the showground - cart laden with tack and picnic! Then I'd enter every class suitable from bonny pony to young handler and then lead rein/first ridden ... then there'd be the gymkhana's legging it around dragging pony along behind you... sooo much fun! - then we'd hitch up and drive her home! She was a fat little fit as a fiddle shetty!!!

Kate x

 

[The Virgin Dubble]

Excellent post, and some excellent points made about feeding and care regimes, being overhorsed, and being unrealistic about riding ability.

IMHO there are too many dreamers who need to chuck away their 'special super duper feed', along with their 'must have' gagets, and accept the fact that they don't own an athlete - they own a pet.

Also agree with Weezy's comments about trainers.

Years ago only top flight riders had a trainer - someone who would improve on their skills.
Nowadays having a trainer is a status symbol, and people have one before they even know how to ride properly.

You can flash the cash and buy the horse, the gear, the gagets, and the trainer, but you can't buy common sense.

 

[H's mum]

[ QUOTE ]
You can flash the cash and buy the horse, the gear, the gagets, and the trainer, but you can't buy common sense.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oooh good comment Dubs!

Consumer-society again! It's the route cause of all evil these days isn't it!

Kate x

 

[Parkranger]

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[ QUOTE ]
You can flash the cash and buy the horse, the gear, the gagets, and the trainer, but you can't buy common sense.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oooh good comment Dubs!

Consumer-society again! It's the route cause of all evil these days isn't it!

Kate x

[/ QUOTE ]

You also can't 'buy' good horsemanship - some people will never have it.

I've been that pleb who came back into riding (after being rubber riding boots and anything I could get my hands on to ride as a kid) and after being thrown off a few times I scratched my head and went back to basics and have started to enjoy riding again......and taking the pressure of myself and my horses!

 

[clipclop]

I think it is general common sense, animal husbandry etc that has gone down the pan.

Horses were never fed so much.
Horses never wore so many rugs
Horses weren't clipped just for hacking. Only hunt horses that worked very hard were clipped. i.e Hunters!!
Kids were happy on fat hairy old natives.
Parents were happy to see kids of fat hairy old natives.
Adults bought horses that were suitable for them.
More people were involved in the countryside back then and I think probably had a much better understanding of how animals function.
People took more risks as risk was not highlighted all the time. Risks are pointed out to us all the time these days and I think that although it is a good thing, it has also turned us in to a nation of worriers.
I am sure there are a zillion other reasons.
The way we all ride in Schools these days, we don't just go out and have a damn good blast around a field when are horses are uptight.
Variety of work
Lack of space
Lack of time.
The list is endless.

But,,,,above all it is our fault.

Absolutely nothing to do with the horse. The horse can not possibly change that much in 20 years. It took millions of years for them to be what they are now.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
QR:-
I am (just!) 21 and this was my PC education:-

You don't see that in PC now!

[/ QUOTE ] I beg to differ - if you look on this Pony Club homepage and scroll down to the mosaic of photos you will see a pic almost identical to the photo above, but taken last summer!

http://www.pcuk.org/output/branches/105/index.html

 

[clipclop]

[ QUOTE ]
Kids used to go into local sjing classes and get eliminated or whatever and just shrug it off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr, Can i admit that I used to cry when this happened. PMSL!

I still loved my pony even though she was a total stubborn old cowbag.

I think I attempted to be a brat once or twice about it all and my Mum took me round the back of the marquee and made it perfectly clear in her scary through gritted teeth voice that I would never ever do that again and if I did then the pony would be sold. She meant it!

She taught me such a good lifelong lesson though. I thoroughly enjoy competing and I do not have to win to enjoy myself. Being a good sportsman is far more important than winning all the prizes. (Far more fun too)!

 

[Parkranger]

So interesting reading through the points on here. When i first got back into riding after a 16/17 year break I was definately caught up in the material side of riding. Over the last year I've rediscovered the old school way of doing things and to be honest, it's helped me. Most of these were down to personal experience:

a) if your horse bucks you off in a field and doesn't normally do it - you're overfeeding - he's prob not 'taking the pee'
b) 99.9% of horses need a bloody good hoon (gallop) now and again - it makes you both feel good and shakes the cobwebs
c) we all need riding lessons to improve - especially those of us who learnt in the 'grip with your knees' days
d) riding is supposed to be fun - you ain't gonna do Badders so stop taking it so seriously
e) stop comparing yourself to other riders
f) the liveries who talk to much invariably know bugger all - ignore them
g) Turn out is so important to a horse 23 hour a day stabling is going to make your slightly stiff TB VERY grumpy
h) If your TB smells fear, he's also going to cak it so if needs be, blagg it
i) 99.9% of us make problems for ourselves - too nervous, over feeding, over rugging, stressing out our horses transferring nervous energy etc
j) if you are bascially a good horseman then you know your horse better than most other people
k) is there really a need to get the vet out when your horse gets a splinter?
l) it's bloody good fun to regress, stick a headcollar and leadrope on your horse, get a leg up and canter up the field bareback


Can't think of any more at the mo....

 

[Nikiolola]

I have only been riding and had horses for the last 5 years but I think to suggest that things have deteriorated in such a bad way is an exaggeration.

For example, when I stated learning to ride (so 2002/3) I went on galloping hacks in big groups and hacked down busy A-roads, including cantering on grass verges. We used to hack to the local shows and stay there all day. Most of the school poines were either donkeys or psychos and we rode with no stirrups. Even when I moved away from that RS and got my own horse, it was still a naughty pony I learnt a lot from, and I used to hack out by myslef down busy roads and jump park benches and go for a paddle in the river and ride bareback and in a headcollar and lead rope.

I no longer have the inclination to do this - I enjoy schooling and jumping and still jump the odd ditch when I hack out, but my younger sister still goes out on mad hacks with her friends, regularly riding 2 hours to the beach and back. They have a whale of a time. She went to PC camp last year and did several sessions riding bareback. I still go to a lot of local shows, and yes you do see some bad riding, but more often than not I see great little riders having a ball on their ponies.

I know I can't compare this to 20 years ago because I wasn't there, but to me things aren't that bad, and I wouldn't say I know a lot of people with naughty horses either I'm not saying there aren't naughty horses out there, but the majoirty of people stabled at my livery yard (and there are about 70 horses on it) have well-mannered, safe horses and ponies, who are well looked after but not molly-coddled, and get a lot of pleasure out of riding them.

 

[Parkranger]

Nikilolola - I think it's hard to see if you weren't riding years ago - it was alot less materialistic then - I used to compete in rubber riding boots and had very dodgy leather bridles etc.....and alot less people rode.

You just didn't worry about falling off - I know alot of it (for me) was cause I was young but I've always had a very healthy sense of self preservation and wouldn't ever to anything too mad.

I guess for me, all my horses were kept at home and out 247 and it makes for a much more balanced, happier horse. I know that atleast 2 horses I had as a kid would be monsters if kept they way I keep mine in the winter (out during the day in at night and hard fed).

For me personally things are alot less natural and relaxed (and I'm not talking pirelli and monty roberts!)

 

[Bounty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QR:-
I am (just!) 21 and this was my PC education:-

You don't see that in PC now!

[/ QUOTE ] I beg to differ - if you look on this Pony Club homepage and scroll down to the mosaic of photos you will see a pic almost identical to the photo above, but taken last summer!

http://www.pcuk.org/output/branches/105/index.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately not the case in my local branch - instructors are discouraged from letting the kids ride without stirrups unless they are in the confines of an arena and have a qualified first aider present

 

[YorksG]

I met up with my old instructor the summer before last, he was judging and sister and I were stewarding the working hunter. It was 30+ years since he had taught us and his take on it was that people were now taught to 'equitate' not to ride. The days of small children whizzing round a field on a balmy pony are long gone as the schools cannot risk it. His daughter now teaches, as he has retired and he is not happy about her not being able to teach kids without stirrups, reins etc. like he did back then. I also think that the number of adult beginers who then buy a horse after 12 months are problematic.

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
I beg to differ - if you look on this Pony Club homepage and scroll down to the mosaic of photos you will see a pic almost identical to the photo above, but taken last summer!
Unfortunately not the case in my local branch - instructors are discouraged from letting the kids ride without stirrups unless they are in the confines of an arena and have a qualified first aider present

[/ QUOTE ]

My first point would be that your 'instructors' must surely have HSE First Aid at Work, or at least ESFAC or shouldn't be teaching. Then again, I hear of certain people local to me teaching when I know for sure they've failed every BHS exam...(they call themselves ' competitors' or 'eventers' but can't actually ride very well....and don't have a competition record. Can it be that the Pony Club don't check up?
And even the BHS is quite happy for you to take stirrups away OR reins away, just not both together

S

S

 

[lilym]

am i right in thinking weezy, the point you are trying to get across is that there is a scary number of DIY yards being opened by people who know nothing about horses?

one yard i was at was just like that, people knew noting and thought 3 acres of poorly drained land, with no provision for a muckheap, would be suitable for 8 full size horses

shetlands maybe, but anything over 12hh NO!!!!!

 

[lilym]

INTERESTING POST!! i think alot of horses are overfed as people simply have no idea of what work is! a pony doing 45mins schooling a day and a couple of long hacks at weekends is in LIGHT work, and therefore does not need 3kgs of competition mix!! i see this at work all the time, people with horses that are only ridden at weekends fed way too much energy, then they buy a calming supplement as well..........well shouldn't really moan as it's good for business! back in the old days it was bran, oats and sugar beet, if you were really posh you fed cubes!! ponies would have nothing but hay!!
bits and tack were much simpler..look at old piccies of badders or hickstead, snaffles were the bit possibly the odd pelham or gag, but today, the mind begins to boggle!!
i know some people who backed a 3yo newfie, said it was really "strong" and put it in a pelham, ruined the pony who then became fussy in the mouth and started to run off from the discomfort, poor little thing was simply unbalanced and on it's forehand, but they didn't have the sense to realise this, same people have just backed another 13hh ish pony with a 15 stone rider "so it doesn't mess about"

my own mare was bought from a clueless twat, and was described as dangerous...she simply had not been taught any boundaries and had no cosistency in handling, and was therefore a confused and frightend soul!! now she is a lovely little mare, although iffy in traffic, due to a near miss before i had her, is a great little allrounder, and NO parelli involved!!