Livery package inclusions / exclusions

[Deltofe2493]

Thought I'd come on here and rant / ask everyone's opinion on what would be fair in this situation

I am currently on part livery (7 days a week care, except grooming & riding). My horse is an extremely poor doer. Up until now the yard have been feeding horse, but having spoke to a nutritionist and reccommendations I now want to try making & buying my feeds myself to see if this make a difference.

Anyway, I said to the YO please can my cost of livery be reduced as I will no longer be using any of their basic hard feed, and they said no as they don't charge for basic feed. Unfortunately I didn't receive a proper contract or agreement so already I know I don't have a leg to stand on they can make it up as they goes along.

It depends on the yard but I thought some yards offer 'tailored' livery packages to fit livery needs. Very frustrated as I now feel like I'm paying double for something as I'm no longer using one of their services.

Thoughts?!

 

[AmyMay]

Whether it’s a reasonable request to make or not is difficult to know. I suspect it is, but their charges will have been calculated based on the number of horses they care for and each horses requirement - bedding, hay, feed - by the number of horses they have and the cost to them.

Do you know what he’s being fed, and how much. Do you also know how much hay he’s getting?

 

[Arzada]

Will you now be feeding your horse or asking the yard to give your already prepared feeds? Agree with Amymay re questioning how much hay he's getting.

 

[SO1]

I am on the other end of the spectrum in that I have a really good doer who is on a balancer and does not need the food supplied by the yard. I don't get any discount for not using their feed.

My balancer sack takes up space in the feed room and they try and discourage people from buying their own as it takes up space and is easier for the staff if they just have variations of the standard feeds offered on part livery. The offerings are dengie for chaffs and top spec for nuts. Conditioning nuts for poor doers with alfa A and then dengie mollasses free or fast fibre for good doers. All get pink mash as well.

My pony who is a native pony just gets Blue Chip Native and a tiny handful of chaff. He is only having the chaff as there is no discount for not having the feeds and YO said it would be good for him to have a tiny handful of the molasses free as something to slow down his eating and I gave in and let him have some. It is all soaked and the balancer fluffs up.

 

[Sossigpoker]

That's normal IME. The price wont go down even if you don't use the included feed , unless you are on an individually tailored package.

 

[HG95]

You need to clarify what is and isn't included in your livery package. Some places include feed, others don't. Some yards state that they don't reduce costs if you use your own feed

 

[Deltofe2493]

Currently on speedi beet, lingold, ulsa kind cubes & chaff. (I pay extra for the lingold).

I would be preparing the feeds and they just have to feed them.

We also have individual storage so feed would be kept in my personal space.

 

[AmyMay]

Currently on speedi beet, lingold, ulsa kind cubes & chaff. (I pay extra for the lingold).

I would be preparing the feeds and they just have to feed them.

How much is he getting, and hay?

 

[Deltofe2493]

I am on the other end of the spectrum in that I have a really good doer who is on a balancer and does not need the food supplied by the yard. I don't get any discount for not using their feed.

My balancer sack takes up space in the feed room and they try and discourage people from buying their own as it takes up space and is easier for the staff if they just have variations of the standard feeds offered on part livery. The offerings are dengie for chaffs and top spec for nuts.

Last year I tried horse without feed over the summer as was mostly living out, I didn't expect to pay less cause I wasn't using it then. It's only now cause it's an additional cost it feels like I am paying double.

 

[SO1]

Is he getting the reccomend amounts of these feeds for his size and workload.

Currently on speedi beet, lingold, ulsa kind cubes & chaff. (I pay extra for the lingold).

I would be preparing the feeds and they just have to feed them.

We also have individual storage so feed would be kept in my personal space.

 

[Deltofe2493]

How much is he getting, and hay?

3 small feeds a day. Not sure how much of each is included in which feed. I have asked, just always get a vague answer hence why I want to take control of the sitch.

Hay is ad lib. @SO1

 

[AmyMay]

3 small feeds a day. Not sure how much of each is included in which feed. I have asked, just always get a vague answer hence why I want to take control of the sitch.

Hay is ad lib.

Then you need to ask to be shown exactly what’s being fed.

 

[SO1]

You should know what he is getting. On our yard there is a list of what each horse gets so the staff know how much to give. There is normally a laminated list in the feed room so any staff member can do the feeds if need be.

3 small feeds a day. Not sure how much of each is included in which feed. I have asked, just always get a vague answer hence why I want to take control of the sitch.

Hay is ad lib. @SO1

 

[ycbm]

It depends on the livery. I've been on the seven day deal you were on in two different stables and I negotiated a reduction and supplied all my horses hard feed myself.
.

 

[Deltofe2493]

It depends on the livery. I've been on the seven day deal you were on in two different stables and I negotiated a reduction and supplied all my horses hard feed myself.
.

how did you do that?? the response I had was 'I don't charge for hard feed, he's been getting more than basic'

to keep costs down other option is to go back to 5 day livery (she was only on 7 day since October). But it's the principal and attitude that annoys me.

 

[AmyMay]

how did you do that?? the response I had was 'I don't charge for hard feed, he's been getting more than basic'

to keep costs down other option is to go back to 5 day livery (she was only on 7 day since October). But it's the principal and attitude that annoys me.

Or you could just go DIY….. And then no one’s principle or attitude has to offend ?

 

[SO1]

The quality of the hay may be poor.

We have very good quality hay on the yard. My pony needs the low sugar poorer quality hay which ironically cost more than the higher DE hay so I pay extra for that. YO owner bought in special hay for good doers and this an extra £45 per month for me.

3 small feeds a day. Not sure how much of each is included in which feed. I have asked, just always get a vague answer hence why I want to take control of the sitch.

Hay is ad lib. @SO1

 

[AmyMay]

You’ve also posted that your horse had some health issues. His condition could be as a result of this. Have you had any further advice on what the issues are?

 

[ycbm]

how did you do that?? the response I had was 'I don't charge for hard feed, he's been getting more than basic'

I went to the yard owners and said "my horse isn't doing well on what you are feeding him, I want to supply his food myself. I think that will save you more than £x a week, so I would be happy with an £x a week reduction in my livery fee". Both of them just said "ok". I left it in bags marked "horsename dayofweek breakfast/tea".

It's ridiculous to say they don't charge for hard food. If they feed it, they're charging for it!

I'd be questioning whether your horse is thin because he's not getting any hard food.

 

[Deltofe2493]

Or you could just go DIY….. And then no one’s principle or attitude has to offend ?

if I had the time I honestly would! unfortunately i work full time and weekend evenings so would just drain me completely.

 

[ycbm]

Deleted double post

 

[Deltofe2493]

You’ve also posted that your horse had some health issues. His condition could be as a result of this. Have you had any further advice on what the issues are?

Yes definitely. I am treating for ulcers at the minute, acid aid supplement and gut balancer which has been on for a week. May have made a difference but probably won't notice properly for another couple weeks. It was only since chiro came out before for yet another problem and suggested this could be the case.

If no improvement will get them scoped etc, only just fully insured a couple weeks ago so letting the dust settle there.

 

[SO1]

I presume you have checked your horse has not got worms or anything else that would cause him not to thrive.

I do think you have a right to know what he is being fed. If they won't tell you exactly ask them why?

 

[Deltofe2493]

I presume you have checked your horse has not got worms or anything else that would cause him not to thrive.

I do think you have a right to know what he is being fed. If they won't tell you exactly ask them why?

Not yet has been wormed but not tested for worms, 100% next on my hit list now! Also planning on having bloods run when next has jab to see if there's any deficiences.

 

[Arzada]

How much turnout does he get?

 

[Deltofe2493]

How much turnout does he get?

nothing at the moment as accident prone tb and investigating a lameness / altered gait / stiffness and fields in poor condition & don't want any more damage to be done!

has a couple of hours turn out in indoor school so opportunity to stretch etc (or so I'm told, came out stable today stiff as cardboard)!

 

[AmyMay]

nothing at the moment as accident prone tb and investigating a lameness / altered gait / stiffness as fields in poor condition & don't want any more damage to be done!

has a couple of hours turn out in indoor school so opportunity to stretch etc.

So vet has instructed box rest?

 

[Deltofe2493]

So vet has instructed box rest?

Mainly light work & some turn out. If issue continues and doesn't improve then it's the nerve block / x ray route.

When vet came she said carry on as normal see if bute works etc but it is me that is being an overbearing horsey mum and not wanting her to go out in fear of damaging something else and yard have agreed due to the state of the fields.

My horse lacerated her pastern in december and was on box rest for a month. then within one month of back to normal she came in with a small cut on her right hind and a weird altered gait on her left. Vet & chiro found nothing suspicious no heat swelling etc. Chiro suggested light work & vet said horsepital & nerve blocks / x-rays. Second opinion from another vet and they've said too much of coincidence coming in with a cut so think tweaked something whilst in field. Less stiff as warms up and rideable etc this has been going on for almost 4 weeks now. Physio coming on Monday.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

Ive been on several full livery yards now (full livery in scotland is 7 days p/w care excluding grooming and riding, so i think same as what your on) and i have an ex racer who is also not the best doer. If ever i wanted them to feed my own thing I had to buy extra on top. They would feed it but I wouldnt get a reduction in cost, same as with bedding as one yard i was on only did straw but my boy eats it and colics, so i had to buy extra bedding ontop. i think many yards calculate the cost based on including the extras, and as they get it in bulk to cover all the liveries they make a (somewhat small) profit, i think this is standard way of practice though
The current yard im on i am on DIY, they do offer full livery, but does not include hard feed and is only £10 p/m cheaper than my last yard (and my hard feed is certainly more than £10 p/m), so think it just depends on the yard and how they do things, though of the several yards ive been on ive never gotten a discount for not using a service

 

[AmyMay]

Mainly light work & some turn out. If issue continues and doesn't improve then it's the nerve block / x ray route.

When vet came she said carry on as normal see if bute works etc but it is me that is being an overbearing horsey mum and not wanting her to go out in fear of damaging something else and yard have agreed due to the state of the fields.

Sounds as if there could be multiple things going on here, and it’s really important to get his management right. It doesn’t sound as if he’s being investigated in any meaningful manner, you don’t know how much he’s being fed and his turnout is questionable.

Sorry, going a bit off tangent, I know. But chucking more food at him may not get the resolution you’re looking for.