Livery yard - Trading Standards?

Illusion100 said:
Without less wealthy peoples love and dream ambition to own a horse, those yards wouldn't have a livelihood either.
Click to expand...

If they aren't earning enough to pay tax I'd argue that they don't have a livelihood at the moment - they aren't even earning minimum wage.
 
Going to disagree with the majority here.

If the OP suspects this establishment is evading paying tax then she should report it. If everything is in order then there is nothing to be concerned about.

They may be issuing invoices but not necessarily completing the process and declaring the income.

Just remember that when taxes are not paid the whole country suffers the effects.

Tax evasion is your business. Lack of funds affects how your schools and hospitals can be run, pensions and benifits are affected when the money is not there.
 
In this world at the moment where so many people have got rid of horses due to recession, yards are finding it hard to run day to day with many stables empty. I find it sad that someone has it in themselves to try destroy a yards business for what ever reason other than if the horses were being cruelly treated.

They are probably working their buts off to make ends meet. Insurance/tax aside, I am guessing it's a small yard so profits are low and bills are high. Where will these liveries go you ask if they are booted out because of closure?? probably the next yard or further afield or the horse booted out on grass as there are no spaces for them locally. The next yard itself may not be insured/taxed etc where will you stop? try close them down.


Unless the horses are being badly treated or welfare issue why don't you just move on and let nature run it's course. Maybe liveries at this yard are low income and won't afford to move to a more expensive yard so result - horse on a ever increasing flooded market for sale to end up sold at markets. Do you want that on your conscience??? I would not.



Also if someone is a member here from that yard and they have been posting or owner is a member and they get a letter from council or authorities they will put two and two together and it might end up that their head is not the only one on the chopping block so think on...............

To add maybe the owner or their family have their horses there and will no afford to move them to a yard so they will be sold too. There is a lot a stake if you go through with this vendetta.
 
Last edited:
What else would you call trying to report someone to tax man, trading standards etc. Maybe get rid of the anonymity and ask the question to livery yard owner,
 
mollymad said:
What else would you call trying to report someone to tax man, trading standards etc. Maybe get rid of the anonymity and ask the question to livery yard owner,
Click to expand...

An honest conscientious British Citizan.

Come on people do you really support dishonesty that actually affects you all.

Tax evasion is illegal. Regardless of whether you think that just because there is a recession in livery businesses it doesn't mean this yard should break the law.

Horse people are notoriously poor business people. Their hearts rule their heads far too often.

It's a business. If it's finances result in a profit it pays taxes.

OP If you think this business is evading paying tax, then report them. You can do so anonymously. If they are being honest there is no harm done.

Your complaint may result in the business being audited. If they have nothing to hide all will be fine.
 
Honey08 said:
You're in a different country though. Not so much here, crappy cheap yards always seem chockablock and nicer yards that cost more turn over more. I think a lot of people that have horses can't really afford them.
Click to expand...

Sadly I think you are correct in this. A lot I know are keeping horses on a shoestring and dread things like farriers and vets visits so unfortunately this is why the cheap crappy yards are in abundance. It really does worry me that if all the yards that aren't doing everything 'by the book' closed, a huge number of people simply wouldn't be able to afford to keep their horses as the yards left would then be able to put thier prices up to what they actually should be. In some respects this may not be a bad thing, but what would happen to all those horses? I've had horses for 40 years and been on a number of yards in that time, one thing I'm 100% certain of is that NONE of them will have been doing everything by BTB otherwise I and many others couldn't have afforded to be there!. Part of me does think licensing would be a good thing but I suspect as with lots of things, there will be many who still manage to get away with it and the rest of you will pay for it in the long run! I keep mine at home now thank god but would hate to see some of my friends in a position where they are forced to get rid because they can't afford!
 
Tnavas said:
An honest conscientious British Citizan.

Come on people do you really support dishonesty that actually affects you all.

Tax evasion is illegal. Regardless of whether you think that just because there is a recession in livery businesses it doesn't mean this yard should break the law.

Horse people are notoriously poor business people. Their hearts rule their heads far too often.

It's a business. If it's finances result in a profit it pays taxes.

OP If you think this business is evading paying tax, then report them. You can do so anonymously. If they are being honest there is no harm done.

Your complaint may result in the business being audited. If they have nothing to hide all will be fine.
Click to expand...

That is why I put the link up to the reporting page for the OP but I think its an assumption on the OPs part they really havent said why they believe. A business thats trying to avoid tax is highly unlikely to be issuing invoices and then not putting it in the accounts( that would be stupid beyond belief) they tend to try and operate under the radar but we are told they are advertising as well I would be very surprised if there is any issue they have to worry about .
I think most have tried to point out that apart from tax all the rest of the issues are not really of any concern to the OP.
 
popsdosh said:
That is why I put the link up to the reporting page for the OP but I think its an assumption on the OPs part they really havent said why they believe. A business thats trying to avoid tax is highly unlikely to be issuing invoices and then not putting it in the accounts( that would be stupid beyond belief) they tend to try and operate under the radar but we are told they are advertising as well I would be very surprised if there is any issue they have to worry about .
I think most have tried to point out that apart from tax all the rest of the issues are not really of any concern to the OP.
Click to expand...

I think the very fact this person is taking about a licence/trading standards/insurance/and tax, would imply they are out to get someone and not a concerned citizen. Let's hope their own house is in order.
 
mollymad said:
I think the very fact this person is taking about a licence/trading standards/insurance/and tax, would imply they are out to get someone and not a concerned citizen. Let's hope their own house is in order.
Click to expand...

I do agree but they get upset if you suggest it!
 
mollymad said:
I think the very fact this person is taking about a licence/trading standards/insurance/and tax, would imply they are out to get someone and not a concerned citizen. Let's hope their own house is in order.
Click to expand...
Me too. They had no idea at the outset of what formalities are required of a livery yard, that says to me they but were looking for ways to 'catch them out' by any means possible. Sounds very much like spite to me.
There's a fine line between a concerned citizen and a troublemaker.
 
minesadouble said:
Me too. They had no idea at the outset of what formalities are required of a livery yard, that says to me they but were looking for ways to 'catch them out' by any means possible. Sounds very much like spite to me.
There's a fine line between a concerned citizen and a troublemaker.
Click to expand...

*like* button needed
 
What about livery yards charging b&b rates? Now wouldn't that be nice, say £40 a night per horse I've never understood why the going rate is £25 diy a week, you can't put your dog in kennels for that..........so how come its so cheap to keep a horse at a diy yard?
 
Because if I got to a b+b I don't expect to change my own bed linen, clean my own bathroom or provide my own breakfast! My yo seems to do ok out of a small diy yard.
 
AngieandBen said:
What about livery yards charging b&b rates? Now wouldn't that be nice, say £40 a night per horse I've never understood why the going rate is £25 diy a week, you can't put your dog in kennels for that..........so how come its so cheap to keep a horse at a diy yard?
Click to expand...

Exactly. If I was to try to make money out of our spare stables I'd be better dividing them up into kennels, with two kennels per stable I could make a heck of a lot more money without half the fuss!
 
mollymad said:
Interesting that the avatar photo seems to have disappeared.
Click to expand...


Yes it has, thing is molly this forum is well known by so many and so many know people in real life and anyone going to receive any formal letters will think of this thread a bit like when they appeal for witnesses to accident people come out of the woodwork especially if a friend of the person's yard involved is a member. Its never good sailing too close to the wind, I have always been of the opinion that I only care what goes on in my yard. What goes on in jo blogs yard is NOMB unless welfare, regardless of how they run the yard and what they declare and don't.


I would never grass on anyone for any other reason than welfare, not only that but if OP does get found out in their area that they reported it no yard around would want them as a livery for fear of being reported for the tiniest thing. You make your bed you lie on it and you better hope OP it does not come back and bite you on the 4$$ that is all I have to say.
 
I'm fully aware of this... And at no point have I stated that welfare isn't a factor, there are other angles to it that I am not going in to for a reason.

I know the risk I take and I will stand by what I do. If there's nothing to wrong on their part of things then there's nothing for them to worry about.

I am not bitter/ spineless blah blah, if that's what people think then so be it, but you don't know me and you don't fully know what's going on and what the history is surrounding the yard.

I asked for advice, I have had it answered. I haven't broadcasted anything, I haven't created slander and I haven't named or shamed anyone.

People may not like it and may think I'm been 'nosy' but if I posted this as purely a welfare matter I'd be praised for wanting to report it.

I changed my avatar photo, so what? If people want to know who I am (that no me already) it's not exactly hard to suss out by my previous posts, so crack on.

This is ultimately a public forum, were people ask questions that others maybe don't like or it's a sour subject. That's why it's a forum and people are entitled to their own opinions as am I. I haven't been upset (and I'm still not for the record, I am defending my corner), yet other users feel it appropriate to call me spineless and spiteful without having met me? Or know the yard? Or YO?

Not all livery YO's give a damn like some of the YO's on here, not all of them provide or care about the welfare of the animals on their property. Therefore yeah, I will raise the matter with the right agencies and they can look into it. If there's nothing untoward in their opinion then at lest I haven't sat on my backside and done nothing.

So thank you to those who have posted, answered my query and although maybe not agreed, remained polite.

I won't be replying to anymore responses because I have my answer and I'm not getting drawn into an argument and I think I've now said my piece.

Thank you and take care :)

Admin - please can you consider closing this thread, I think my query has been resolved and it's now run it's course, regards.
 
Last edited:
milesjess said:
I'm fully aware of this... And at no point have I stated that welfare isn't a factor, there are other angles to it that I am not going in to for a reason.

I know the risk I take and I will stand by what I do. If there's nothing to wrong on their part of things then there's nothing for them to worry about.

I am not bitter/ spineless blah blah, if that's what people think then so be it, but you don't know me and you don't fully know what's going on and what the history is surrounding the yard.

I asked for advice, I have had it answered. I haven't broadcasted anything, I haven't created slander and I haven't named or shamed anyone.

People may not like it and may think I'm been 'nosy' but if I posted this as purely a welfare matter I'd be praised for wanting to report it.

I changed my avatar photo, so what? If people want to know who I am (that no me already) it's not exactly hard to suss out by my previous posts, so crack on.

This is ultimately a public forum, were people ask questions that others maybe don't like or it's a sour subject. That's why it's a forum and people are entitled to their own opinions as am I. I haven't been upset (and I'm still not for the record, I am defending my corner), yet other users feel it appropriate to call me spineless and spiteful without having met me? Or know the yard? Or YO?

Not all livery YO's give a damn like some of the YO's on here, not all of them provide or care about the welfare of the animals on their property. Therefore yeah, I will raise the matter with the right agencies and they can look into it. If there's nothing untoward in their opinion then at lest I haven't sat on my backside and done nothing.

So thank you to those who have posted, answered my query and although maybe not agreed, remained polite.

I won't be replying to anymore responses because I have my answer and I'm not getting drawn into an argument and I think I've now said my piece.

Thank you and take care :)

Admin - please can you consider closing this thread, I think my query has been resolved and it's now run it's course, regards.
Click to expand...

Well if it was welfare....then that wouldn't involve the tax man would it? Seeing as you are grasping at angles to report someone puts an entirely different perspective on things. And lastly the need for anonymity speaks volumes.
 
Honey08 said:
You're in a different country though. Not so much here, crappy cheap yards always seem chockablock and nicer yards that cost more turn over more. I think a lot of people that have horses can't really afford them.
Click to expand...

I'd pay more but paying more doesn't always equal a better yard especially when it comes to horse care or customer service rather than facilities. By far the worst yard I've been on cost the most and both me and my horse were unhappy there and in fact no-one stays at the yard long once they realise that they have been duped.

I do think everyone should pay the taxes etc. that they are obliged to pay however I don't think I couldn't be bothered to report anyone as I can see how most can hardly be making anything worthwhile. I've never met a person on benefits either that I envy no matter how much they might be playing the system. Funny how people get het up about benefit fraud but not tax fraud yet all of us who pay taxes subsidise both.
 
There seem to be be some very defensive people on here. If the owners/managers of the yard in question are doing no wrong, then surely they having nothing to fear?

Thanks, OP, for starting a very interesting and revealing thread. I hope that you have the answers you looked for.
 
Tiddlypom said:
There seem to be be some very defensive people on here. If the owners/managers of the yard in question are doing no wrong, then surely they having nothing to fear?

Thanks, OP, for starting a very interesting and revealing thread. I hope that you have the answers you looked for.
Click to expand...

I agree, I'm not sure why people are getting so defensive over it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top