Loaner causing trouble!

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Mmmm........... sounds like the little B!tch needs a bit of a kick up the bum TBH. Perhaps your letter might do the trick (presumably threatening solicitors/court?)??? - if not, you might actually have to go to a solicitor and ask them to write a formal letter for you on their headed notepaper.

Just a thought: but does the little cow work somewhere? Maybe a call to her workplace might produce a result? Like, (this is the way my mind works anyway) you could explain to her boss in perfect innocence that you are trying to contact her and why. She might not like her employers/workmates to know that she's doing this sort of stuff.......???

 

[_GG_]

Tack is security marked, well both the saddles are I think.

Have drafted out a letter and rang BHS gold member thingy to see what they say. They've been very helpful actually! I'm sending it to the address on the contract, but not sure if she is living there or with her boyfriend, not sure if her mom would open the letter?

We have tried ringing a few times but no answer, but it rings on a withheld number, so I think she is avoiding the calls, but we have left a message warning her on the tack and outstanding livery payments.

I wish she would just give it back so we can all move on, Buzz is very happy to be home though, so that is the main thing!

Then you hand write the envelope and write URGENT on it. Envelopes like that tend not to get left unopened for long.

 

[Marmite Sandwich]

I think I would be inclined to approach her mum directly. Chances are the tack is still at that address too. Is it near enough for you and a couple of friends (menacing looking chaps would be good) to go and knock on the door? How old is the former loaner?

 

[pixie]

Keep us updated

 

[EmmasMummy]

Just a thought, not sticking up for her, but DONT repeatedly call...or go round a lot as she may be a wee madam and use the harassment card. As annoying as it is, hounding her for the stuff kinda is - even though yes, its her own bloody doing!
Do all that you can then wait a bit, then do it again if nothing happens. Maybe get confirmation from the police on exactly what steps you can take before its deemed harassing her etc?

Just so that she doesnt have anything to come at you with.

 

[Loubidy]

Any update?

 

[Grumpy Herbert]

Wow! Psycho loon from hell or what!! Your horse has had a lucky escape, as have you.

Regarding your tack - if she doesn't return it then that is theft. The definition of theft (loosely, can't remember the exact wording) is taking an article from another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it. If she fails to return it after you have asked repeatedly, then she clearly intends to deprive you of it permanently. I agree with Honey08, go get yourself a solicitor's letter. It doesn't cost a lot, and may concentrate her mind a bit. If no luck, go back to the police and be firm - theft is still a crime even if they'd prefer not to have to deal with it.

Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Tnavas]

Definitely agree with many who have said get a solicitors letter. It's amazing how quickly people roll over when threatened with legal intervention.

Re the livery bill, a demand for payment will need to come from your sister if the livery contract is with her.

So glad you got your horse back up damaged.

 

[LuandLu24]

Bring the horse home and sort the saddle once you know the horse is okay. Good luck!

 

[sasquatch]

would it be possible for you to put an advert on local horsey fb pages asking if anyone has bought/seen the saddle could they please let you know, as you are awaiting it's return from a loaner. it might also put her off trying to sell it through local fb groups if she knows that you and others will catch her trying to sell it on.

Do you know if the old yard has tack facilities, and if she kept tack there? if she really was such a lazy so-and-so, she might well have left the tack there.

I would definitely stop leaving her voicemails/phoning her a lot - your best plan is to get it all in writing. As others have said, go to a solicitor. I'm not sure an organisation like the CAB would be much help on this matter, but they may be able to offer advice on what to do from the position you're in now.

 

[Luci07]

Firstly huge relief for you that you have your horse home. Just thinking outside the box a little...as the mother witnessed the contract, do you have her parents address ( or is that what you meant by not knowing her address?) or if you know her parents name, I would actually write to them, explain the situation clearly and say you have been unable to contact her and she has reneged on the contract. State your intentions (court) but say that as the mother had been party to the contract, you wasted to make them aware of the situation before proceeding.

 

[Luce85]

Currently on colic watch so thought would fill you all in.

Sent the letter to her parents house (address on the contract) with Urgent, also left a message with no response, so gave her a ring the next day, mother answered and said the tack was there for all she knew, but i couldn't collect until she had spoken to her daughter to confirm she no longer has the horse - rings back and the mother tells me that the horse is still in her daughters care so no I cannot collect my tack!!

I'm at a loss! What next? I asked the mom to ensure her daughter does not take the tack anywhere otherwise the police and small claims court will be after her! Even offered to take poor Buzz to the house to prove he is home with me!

God help me!

 

[Loubidy]

Contact the police for theft. What an utter joke.

 

[Tnavas]

Sounds like the girl has been keeping mum in the dark. I seriously suggest that you back right off now. You know you have a contact address so now head for a solicitor and get the letter written. Does you phone or camera have a date that can be made visible? If so get a picture of you and horse that includes your location in it. Give to the solicitor to prove you have the horse.

Do everything legally now and above board. Good Luck

Hope your colicky horse is OK

 

[Luci07]

I would also put a call into the police station, explain the situation and while I appreciate they will say this is a civil matter, you will have it logged. Call the mother, tell her the police have been notified so that IF the tack is moved from her house, this will be treated as theft (bit of bluffing here). THEN say you have taken legal actions and be pursuing this through small courts (livery and tack) with the view that you will apply for a CCJ if not successful . Tell the mother you do understand she has probably not been kept up to date but her daughter has left you no choice.

 

[Tnavas]

Luce85

Would you be able to clarify

Is the livery arrangement between you and the loaner or is it between your sister and the loaner?

If the livery arrangement is between the loaner and your sister, your sister is the person to make the claim against the loaner not you.

You can't do so as you are not the provider of the service. But you can get tough about the tack. And as you now have a confirmed address you can make real progress.

 

[hairycob]

Does that make the mother in receipt of stolen property?

 

[Tnavas]

That would be debateable - I guess now that she knows the horse has been returned to its owner she could be. Especially as she has refused to give it to the rightful owner.

 

[Dry Rot]

The closer the OP sticks to the formal and correct procedure, the stronger will be her case in court, if that is what it comes to.

The initial steps have been gone through. The OP has made contact by phone or email via parents or last known address.

Personally, I'd avoid a direct personal confrontation. Much better to get things in writing -- or perhaps these days on video!

As there's been no satisfactory response, write a factual unemotional letter and send it by Recorded Delivery (keeping a copy, of course) simply stating that the loner has your tack which you required to be returned in good condition within 10 days "or appropriate action will follow". IMO, there is no need at this stage to engage a solicitor as they do like to make things complicated -- and they charge by the hour!

Do not hesitate to follow up with a Small Claim. This can be done online. I think the defendant has to get a copy of your claim before you can proceed further but, if this is challenged, made sure of your ammunition for court action by having first obtained supporting statements from witnesses, yard staff, documentary evidence, etc. Also state how the tack can be identified with witness statements on condition. I would very definitely be encouraging the YO to sue for any outstanding fees.

Having gone through a similar experience, I know how stressful this can be. I had to collect three ponies (160 mile round trip?) when things went pear shaped. One was a bad loader but, thankfully, I'd had the foresight to go with a friend, a long rope, and a yard broom! We got the pony loaded while the guilty party watched from behind curtains in her house after stating that she'd be out!

 

[Elbie]

I'm astonished that when you, the OWNER, asked the mum for the tack back as you have the horse now, she asked her daughter and believed her. Sorry but why would you say you had the horse when you didn't?!

I would definitely now send a solicitors letter and log with police

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Why are the police not dealing with this? You know where the tack is and who has it, it belongs to you and they are refusing to hand it over. Why is this a civil matter? Surely that's the police's way of fobbing you off.

If the woman had your car keys and your car and was refusing to return it, I'm sure the police would be interested! Is that because an insurance company would have to pay out for theft if its not recovered? Is your tack insured? Maybe a theft claim would see the police acting. Or because there's proof of ownership with a V5 document for a car? Do you have receipts for your tack OP?

 

[Luci07]

Because very often it is deemed a civil matter if it comes down to one persons word against another. This is why police tend to not get involved with horse loans that go wrong end. I agree with your logic and support it though!

 

[Lambkins]

If it's not a police matter .. Why can't u pop round to hers and sort it out with her ?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

If it's not a police matter .. Why can't u pop round to hers and sort it out with her ?

This! I'd be round there with ten mates, barge in and get it. If she phones the police you can tell them you were told its a civil matter so you went and collected your stuff. She's not denying the tack belongs to you, she's saying you can't have it because they still have the horse on loan, which isn't true so her argument is invalid. Even if they did still have the horse on loan, its your tack, if they didn't like being without tack they could give the horse back couldn't they?! The longer this drags on for the more chance there is she will move or sell the tack. Small claims court wont necessarily get you the money back even if you win, I'd be doing everything I could to get my tack back.

 

[missk]

Was it in the agreement that the horse was to be kept at your sisters yard? As the mother assumes the horse is still in her daughters possession I'd would be inclined to phone her back and ask her to meet you at your sisters yard, then ask her to explain what her daughter has done with said horse.

I can't fathom out as to whether the daughter is still using/making out she is still using the tack, surely if its kept at the mothers house she'd notice her daughter coming and going with it....odd one.

 

[Fides]

This! I'd be round there with ten mates, barge in and get it. If she phones the police you can tell them you were told its a civil matter so you went and collected your stuff. She's not denying the tack belongs to you, she's saying you can't have it because they still have the horse on loan, which isn't true so her argument is invalid. Even if they did still have the horse on loan, its your tack, if they didn't like being without tack they could give the horse back couldn't they?! The longer this drags on for the more chance there is she will move or sell the tack. Small claims court wont necessarily get you the money back even if you win, I'd be doing everything I could to get my tack back.

That's burglary...

 

[Chestnut horse]

Some people are just really weird, i also think there was an unfortunate break down of communication somewhere along the line. I would go to the Mum's house with the contract, and a picture of the horse now at your own premises plus an explanatory letter stating all the facts to date, so she can get the full details of the situation and not just her daughters side( which to be fair she will side with). I would then suggest that she hand over the saddle etc to you as you do not wish to take further action but will be forced to do so if the equipment is not forthcoming, this will be through the small claims court and will leave a bad credit on her daughters credit rating which will have an effect for many years to come, and you would prefer not to follow this course of action. Hopefully this will be enough to make her see sense and hand over the items, with regard to your sisters bill - hey she is your sister and it is best to mark this up as experience and not pursue this particular avenue.
Good luck

 

[Sven]

I suspect loaner's Mum was/is paying for said horse, so if daughter admits she hasn't got it anymore then her funding will cease. A letter to the Mother explaining the situation with an invitation to verify facts should produce the desired response.

 

[Honey08]

I really don't understand why you've not taken legal action yet. They are making a fool of you. The mother has proved that she has brought a spoiled brat with no morals up, there is no doing things nicely with these types.

Some parents nowadays should be PTS!

 

[Luce85]

My sister is persuing her for her livery - that's not my doing, but I am going to pay her if she doesn't pay up!
I'm unsure who paid for his livery Sven, but not sure how to play it.
I sent a letter with URGENT on, and have rang the police - they said they will investigate further, but I doubt they will do much! The mother has rang me again this morning, saying the daughter is going to take her to the yard to prove the horse is still here (HOW?!) but I said, I can meet you there, and prove the horse is not in her care, and have given her my sisters number as she is the yard owner to prove the horse is no longer there and the remaining livery is yet to be paid. I also asked her to bring the tack to the yard, so she can see her daughter ride the horse that isn't there, her mother said she will have no issue as I have every faith in my daughter that he is there.. Christ, this is enough to send me mad!

Tnavas - colic horse is doing a lot better today, hopefully out of the woods!

Will most likely end up small claims court, I just want my tack back, it's such lovely tack that is fitted to him!