Loaner causing trouble!

Fides said:
That's burglary...
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I know, but if I'm only thieving my own items back and the police are taking the line that its a civil matter and they don't want to get involved, then I'd take my chances! I'm all for sticking to the law, but when police are happy to stand by and watch while someone steals and sells another persons valuable possessions, I'd be thinking 'stuff the law'.
 
I wonder if the daughter was going to go to a yard, point to a random horse and state it was hers? Does the mum know what yard horse was on or what horse looked like? Maybe Sven is right.
 
If you follow the advice to use the direct action to get your tack back, you can always request that a police officer attends "to keep the peace" as you are worried there might be an altercation -- aren't you??
 
what, so this girl is taking her mum to a yard where there isn't a horse? how's that going to work in her favour? wow. some people. She really hasn't thought this through?

ha, maybe she's bought an identical horse. That'd be interesting.
 
I wonder if she's managed to dupe some unsuspecting poor soul into loaning her their horse, had that's what she needs the tack for! Can you not find out from Mum when she is taking her to see this horse, and arrange to meet them there with the passport?
 
Call the mother back tonight. Confirm you have notified the police and will be instigating legal proceedings first thing tomorrow. Confirm as well that livery has not been paid and the livery owner is also instigating proceedings. Advise mother that as this is now logged with the police, her daughter removing the tack from her parents would now be considered legal theft. No idea if that's true but worth a bluff.
 
Does the contract say that you loaned the horse with tack? If not, whether the daughter still has the horse or not is irrelevant. It's YOUR tack.
 
This is just bizarre. You tell the mother you have the horse (that you own!) but she says she has every confidence her daughter is telling the truth?!

Your sister can pursue unpaid livery bills through small claims but I'm not sure you can go down that route for the tack (someone correct me if I'm wrong) as I thought small claims was just for money owing, not property?

Did they go to the yard today?
 
Just bear in mind that if you want the full cooperation of the courts, you need to go with clean hands. They take a dim view of those who take the law into their own hands. Play it by the book and leave it to the other side to make the mistakes.
 
Dry Rot said:
Just bear in mind that if you want the full cooperation of the courts, you need to go with clean hands. They take a dim view of those who take the law into their own hands. Play it by the book and leave it to the other side to make the mistakes.
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I agree with this no silly stuff on your side personally I would send a solicitors letter PDQ and start proceedings in the small claims court .
It's a nuts situation ,
The main thing is you have the horse and he's in one piece
 
What difference should it make to the mother whether or not her daughter is still loaning the horse? You've asked for YOUR property back- any other information is irrelevant!

I for one would class the daughter's refusal to give you your property back as dishonest appropriation, which is the legal definition of theft. She has done the act, and she obviously has the intention to do so aswell. Go back to the police and demand that some response. If the tack is marked, as you say it is, you have proof that it belongs to you.

Ax
 
Bringing her mom to see the horse tomorrow, she should know as she has seen Buzz before and the yard, so she shouldn't be able to lie about the horse or the yard..

Oh I am so happy I have him back Goldenstar, I don't know what I would have done if she had taken him that night.. But he is home now and safe, I only want the tack back so that I can get this girl out of my life, she is ridiculous and deluded, shame when things go wrong with this boyfriend, I am sure she will be wanting him back!

I will be doing it by the book, I rang the mother simply to inform her and as tempting as it is to go over there and demand my tack back, I want to do it properly, depending on how tomorrow goes, I will proceed to send a solicitors letter and small claims court! Thanks for all the advice ladies, I really appreicate all the help x
 
Dry Rot said:
If you follow the advice to use the direct action to get your tack back, you can always request that a police officer attends "to keep the peace" as you are worried there might be an altercation -- aren't you??
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Exactly, ring the non emergency number, tell them what you're doing and go get your stuff! What a bonkers family!
 
I had a saddler offer to sell my saddle on my behalf ...some months later when I was moving my pony away and still no sale I asked many a time for the saddle to be returned, got every excuse going including she had lost it but no saddle . I was told to write a letter requesting the return of my saddle or its worth, wasn't a costly sum but none the less it was mine, within 7 days of receiving the letter or I would be taking legal action. I was also told to hand the letter in person to the saddler which I did. Low and behold a cheque appeared in the post within the stated time.

So maybe OP you could prepare a letter to hand over to mother/daughter stating that is what you intend to do before you spend out on a solicitor to do it for you.
 
Cowpony said:
Does the contract say that you loaned the horse with tack? If not, whether the daughter still has the horse or not is irrelevant. It's YOUR tack.
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I agree with this. I think it's time to back off with the personal contact and get a solicitor's letter. I got one a few years ago over a dispute with a former employer, and it worked a treat. It didn't cost me much at all, I certainly wasn't charged by the hour. Your ex loaner clearly thinks she's running circles round you - prove her wrong and start playing hard ball! I reiterate what I said in my earlier post, if she refuses to return the items to you after you have repeatedly asked for them, then she is clearly intending to permanently deprive you of them and that is theft. Report it to the police as such - if you don't get it back and you are insured, then you'll need a crime reference number for any claim. It fair puts you off loaning, doesn't it!!!
 
I would be expecting for ex loaner to fetch he mother down and then make out that he ha been stolen I've night or something along those line keep us updated
 
Does the ex loaner know he's been moved from your sister's yard OP? I'm assuming that when she turned up with her trailer to take him away she was sent away with a flea in her ear and then you moved him back to your place after she'd left. Or did you tell her you were going to move him?

Two things come to mind - either she thinks he's still at your sister's place and is expecting to turn up and show her mum a happy horse in his usual stable.....OR (and I don't want to worry you, but it's worth thinking about) she and her mum may be intending to turn up at your place and take him away, knowing you'll be at your sister's yard waiting for her there. May be worth making sure there are people around at your barn just in case she turns up. Sorry, my mind obviously works in devious ways! Just a thought.
 
Desperate for an update on this, ive got popcorn at the ready!

On a serious note cowpony may well be right! Fingers crossed all is ok for you though
 
Red-1 said:
Third time this evening I have popped in to get an update. Sloe Gin at the ready for a really good read......... OP, any news????
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i'm on the red wine, but would love to see a satisfactory conclusion to this saga. (i.e. ... loaner turned up, mother very unimpressed, gave little madam a right telling off, gave OP her tack back and paid off livery bill ... OP happy, loaner chastened, mother disgruntled, sister paid ... they all lived happily ever after.)

... i suspect that's not what happened but i await further news ....
 
Luci07 said:
Because very often it is deemed a civil matter if it comes down to one persons word against another. This is why police tend to not get involved with horse loans that go wrong end. I agree with your logic and support it though!
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It may be that because OP gave the tack willingly it cannot be deemed as stolen , this is what I was told, I just grabbed the goods of the idiot, while nice PC stood by my side , kind chap :), I think you will find the police want to prevent breaches of the peace or something.
 
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