Long reining session today....

Billie1007 said:
Whatever her 'methods' they are sometimes heavy handed and unsightly. I would say it doesn't matter if we don't agree with her 'methods' - each to their own, but her methods are hardly refined. Not the approach I would suggest with this very hot horse (after all he seems to be being claimed as the hottest horse that ever lived ;))

GG, are you on the Chateux Mille payroll? ;) (I am joking)
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Had never heard of it before this thread :eek:

I am seriously uneducated in most of these things, I am a bit insular, got my happy little existence and if it isn't Hartpury, Stonar or West Wilts, I probably haven't heard of it.

There's been some talk of there being certain posters that are just seeing good or just agreeing with the methods of this trainer...or indeed not seeing fault in her or this.

Can I just ask, if anyone thinks I am one of those posters, please go back through all threads and posts on this subject, I have said almost as much bad as I have good, haven't pulled my punches about what I haven't liked and i have never met James, don't know him as anything but another poster, but he's taken the bad with the good with everything I have said. I have disagreed with him openly on these threads and via PM and he has taken in graciously...but I will also say if I see good things and there are plenty of good things to see.

There seem to be a lot of generalisations being made.

I'm enjoying these threads, I am learning a lot from Cortez and some other posters and any opportunity I have to learn, I will grab with both hands.

None of us know it all...even if we think we do sometimes :eek:
 
aimsymc said:
My god! some people clearly have to much time on their hands. I take it all the posters criticising the rider ride like carl hester?? Same as always on here!! Fwiw I think the rider has made an improvement over the space of a week and would like to see anyone else improve this horse greatly in that space of time. Its far from perfect, but i believe alot of folk made up their mind as soon as they heard who the girl trains with. Just my opinion.
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And here's the "if you can't ride like *fill in famous person who is flavour of the month* then don't say anything critical" being trotted out again. Cuts both ways however, as it means nobody should comment on anything, ever, even if they are being complimentary, so by your argument you render your own opinion invalid.

For my part, I have no idea who the girl is. I am commenting on what I see, nothing more, so please don't make assumptions on my behalf.

From your comments I'm guessing she's the one that rode him a few weeks ago in rolkur. If so, at least she's better on the ground with him than riding him.
 
Caledonia said:
From your comments I'm guessing she's the one that rode him a few weeks ago in rolkur. If so, at least she's better on the ground with him than riding him.
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This last comment of yours is the exact reason why I would choose to ignore every thing YOU would have to say from this point on. If you think she is riding him in Rolkur then you don't have a clue and it is you who is deluded not I.
 
Bloody hell Armas, talk about making a rod for your own back!!!

I'd stick to the beach riding, far more fun!!!!!
 
_GG_ said:
Had never heard of it before this thread :eek:

I am seriously uneducated in most of these things, I am a bit insular, got my happy little existence and if it isn't Hartpury, Stonar or West Wilts, I probably haven't heard of it.

There's been some talk of there being certain posters that are just seeing good or just agreeing with the methods of this trainer...or indeed not seeing fault in her or this.

Can I just ask, if anyone thinks I am one of those posters, please go back through all threads and posts on this subject, I have said almost as much bad as I have good, haven't pulled my punches about what I haven't liked and i have never met James, don't know him as anything but another poster, but he's taken the bad with the good with everything I have said. I have disagreed with him openly on these threads and via PM and he has taken in graciously...but I will also say if I see good things and there are plenty of good things to see.

There seem to be a lot of generalisations being made.

I'm enjoying these threads, I am learning a lot from Cortez and some other posters and any opportunity I have to learn, I will grab with both hands.

None of us know it all...even if we think we do sometimes :eek:
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I think I now idolise you :D
I have loved reading your comments - very well balanced, constructive and incredibly interesting. I think you would be a wonderful friend to have around - there for the hugs or the slaps when needed. :D
I think many would do well to follow your example.
 
Armas you are laying yourself wide open ..... All the bloody time. Stop posting threads which show everyone your underwear. Keep it private.
 
Armas said:
This last comment of yours is the exact reason why I would choose to ignore every thing YOU would have to say from this point on. If you think she is riding him in Rolkur then you don't have a clue and it is you who is deluded not I.
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Well perhaps it was another rider? As I said, I'm guessing it's the same. But you took a video down of your horse being ridden pretty much in rolkur from the page I saw it on after everyone who looked at it was of the opinion (and stated) it was rolkur, and you disagreed then too.

ETA - I've said my piece, I just feel so sad and sorry for your horse. I'll leave you too it. :(
 
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Caledonia said:
Well perhaps it was another rider? As I said, I'm guessing it's the same. But you took a video down of your horse being ridden pretty much in rolkur from the page I saw it on after everyone who looked at it was of the opinion (and stated) it was rolkur, and you disagreed then too.

ETA - I've said my piece, I just feel so sad and sorry for your horse. I'll leave you too it. :(
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Again wrong I have not taken any videos down why make statements that are not true. Clearly you are not the horsewoman you think you are if you think my horse is being ridden in Rolkur.
As many posters have stated this is not Rolkur its a horse that puts its self BTV. It is also a breed typical manoeuvre by PRE's as stated by Cortez the following also do not agree that this is Rolkur Auslander _GG_ aimsymc milliepops Goldenstar to name but a few. All riders with considerable knowledge.
 
The trouble is the difference between constructive advice and a sort of dismissive criticism which pervades these threads. I won't comment on the dressage training because I don't know anything about it. Armas is clearly evading contact (the bit), horses usually avoid something because they are uncomfortable. You can't force a horse to accept something if it hurts (well, quite clearly you can but that's not what we want to do) - so that would be my first point of call, why he is evading. Is he messing about? I don't know but he seems such a willing chap so I doubt it imo. I certainly don't feel sorry for Armas, he pretty much lives a life of luxury and it's clear his owner wants the best for him - I'd feel a lot sorrier for plenty of others horses tied down with any number of gadgets to get an outline, at least OP is trying to work it out with (his choice) of trainer. Rome wasn't built in a day.
 
Armas said:
Again wrong I have not taken any videos down why make statements that are not true.
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There was a post from you with a video of Armas on the BAPSH FB page that disappeared after the consensus was he was being ridden in rolkur.
I have looked again and it has gone from the BAPSH page.
 
Caledonia said:
There was a post from you with a video of Armas on the BAPSH FB page that disappeared after the consensus was he was being ridden in rolkur.
I have looked again and it has gone from the BAPSH page.
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I have no idea which post you are referring to and why it would not be there. As is all the videos of the trainer are located here or on Armas facebook wall.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=624168

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=623635

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=623065

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=623460
 
Armas said:
Again wrong I have not taken any videos down why make statements that are not true. Clearly you are not the horsewoman you think you are if you think my horse is being ridden in Rolkur.
As many posters have stated this is not Rolkur its a horse that puts its self BTV. It is also a breed typical manoeuvre by PRE's as stated by Cortez the following also do not agree that this is Rolkur Auslander _GG_ aimsymc milliepops Goldenstar to name but a few. All riders with considerable knowledge.
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Deleted and defeated. CBa
 
Tbh though I do feel that the term 'rolkur' gets used far too readily for everything that is vaguely behind the vertical Which is not Rolkur. Rolkur is a whole training system not just a moment of BTV. Spanish horses revert to BTV as their default position, like cobs often being on the forehand, they find it easy and comfortable and having a longer rein/softer contact will not stop them Sucking behind you. I have also found personally with PRE's that they often like having firm boundaries (read not cruel or beating) so that they have a clear picture of what we are after.

It's difficult to comment on a situation like this as we have no idea how he feels to ride and we need to remember what works for one horse does not mean it will work for another.
 
Caledonia said:
How strange. Amnesia. I do hope you get it seen to.
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I believe this is the video you are referring to which is clearly on Armas wall. I do not control other internet sites bar my own. This was the first time the rider rode Armas and this is not Rolkur. By harping on and saying it is just is demonstrating your lack of knowledge.
Do you even know what Rolkur is ?

[youtube]VihJCmS5Pq4[/youtube]
 
I don't know much but from what I can see the horses default setting is to put himself btv, it's his comfort zone. I've ridden for 25 years now and it's taken me 2 years to get to grips with a horse. This horse doesn't look easy, and some look easier than they are
I suspect he is very hot, curls his neck into his chest and is the type to bounce and shorten when he gets hotter. Encouraging a horse to carry itself properly when he has this learnt behaviour of evasion by going btv is not easy, and she's been riding him what - a week?!
I'm finding it interesting to see the progress, is she the right rider? I don't know, but I suspect it will take longer than a week to see changes from a horse that is plainly not easy to ride
I don't see she is doing damage, she looks to have a lovely seat and in the videos I can see her reward the horse
Have seen much much worse on yards over the years
 
I think I'm missing something. Everyone keeps harping on about Armas looking like he is a very difficult and how hot a horse he is to ride. Is he? If so, how? He doesn't look difficult or hot to me unless I'm misunderstanding what you all mean by 'difficult' (which could well be the case) :confused:
 
I think it's more the fact he is difficult to work correctly (he would rather hide BTV rather then work over the back) rather than he is difficult in the bucking/rearing/bolting sense! I find the former harder to fix than the latter.
 
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Caledonia said:
Yes. This and worse. And she is keeping your horse's head in the same position.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...949436.-2207520000.1373825823.&type=3&theater

ETA, don't assume that because you don't know people in their real lives that we all know nothing. I own an Iberian horse, and have trained them. I just don't blast my life over forums.
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That horse in your link isn't in rollkur either, that's a horse , prob young, that's gone behind the bridle and fallen onto its forehand!!

as I stated in a previous post, I own a horse that chooses to go btv as its evasion, it is more of the most difficult issues to sort, the only way to sort a horse that won't seek a contact is for the rider to seek it for them.
 
To me I would class this



And this

image_zpsc4a8d10a.jpg
[/URL]

As Rolkur, a very forced position with very strong leg aids for bending within the position

Don't think armas is trying for this?
 
charlie76 said:
That horse in your link isn't in rollkur either, that's a horse , prob young, that's gone behind the bridle and fallen onto its forehand!!

as I stated in a previous post, I own a horse that chooses to go btv as its evasion, it is more of the most difficult issues to sort, the only way to sort a horse that won't seek a contact is for the rider to seek it for them.
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Look at the page the photo was from - and frankly, if you think that's acceptable for a young horse then :eek::eek::eek::(:(
 
shortstuff99 said:
To me I would class this



And this

image_zpsc4a8d10a.jpg
[/URL]

As Rolkur, a very forced position with very strong leg aids for bending within the position

Don't think armas is trying for this?
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Do read posts. And possibly look at the page the photo was from? Rolkur at it's most extreme is what you have posted, rolkur at its start point training method is what I have posted.
 
Caledonia, , I'll meet you half way :) problem is, one photo as a moment in time doesn't really tell the full story. I looked at the photo linked and yes you could reasonably have come to the conclusion that c76 did.

Have now scrolled through the other photos and it looks like a lengthier session with the rider demanding that flexion.

Still not the same as what Armas does though :confused: just not the same intent from the rider nor the same response from the horse.
 
There is a huge difference between a horse choosing to suck back behind the contact as an evasion and that of a rider forcing the horse to work in rollkur.
The rider on armas is trying to obtain a contact before getting him to seek the contact down, out and forward. None of which is possible without the horse working to a contact to start with. So if the horse sucks back the rider has to get stuck in and get it back, some times not giving a beautiful picture.
This rider is starting a baby from scratch, she is dealing with in grained issues that somethings need solving by stepping out the box
 
Caledonia said:
Do read posts. And possibly look at the page the photo was from? Rolkur at it's most extreme is what you have posted, rolkur at its start point training method is what I have posted.
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Actually I did, I was responding to posters saying that Armas was in Rolkur, which I don't feel he is. I know about the page your picture was from.

P.s before people think I do, I DO NOT support Rolkur :)
 
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