Lungeing nightmare WWYD? on the point of despair!

snopuma

snopuma

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So little TB mare has been in for 8 weeks, (apparently she doesn't like winter YO says - funny she was out last winter fine) but that's another story. At the start of being in she has been fine ridden every day and really good with the very occasional blip, then the snow came, school was frozen, so walked her in hand 30-45 mins every day, got progressively more stroppy to deal with until melt. Now I would like to get back on, I would like to turn her out, I would like her not to be so miserable, so I thought I know I will lunge her then ride, you know like everyone does!

I went through a very bad stage with her last year when I just couldn't get on her she was bonkers and my nerves were making her worse, so little by little I tried until I had a horse that I could lead up to the school and she was relaxed and we had some trust between us, lungeing was always a nightmare she used to set sail and fall over and then set sail again, horrific to watch, so without giving it any thought I have lunged her at all for 6 months ( I think I almost hate lunging as much as she does) various 'experts' have tried to lunge her all with the same result I have, except she always runs away from them and with me as she now sees me as a safe place to be runs to me and stands there waiting to be gathered up.

So tonight I thought I would try again after the massive fail and loss of skin failure this weekend, so I walked her round and then let her out on a small circle, keeping her attention and moving her on, all with the bridle on and the lunge line slipped through the inner bit ring and clipped onto the outer bit ring, so I have some level of control, the thing is when she sets sail, this mechanism clamps down and I hate it and I know she does she launches and rears when it comes into play as soon as she trots she freaks out and then it really hurts me and her, so tonight I just clipped onto the inner ring, same reaction, then I thread the noseband through the outer ring so the bit couldn't pull through her mouth, same freak out, so what do I do, this mare is working at novice/elem standard in her ridden work, is accepting and relaxed etcc. but will not trot or canter on the lunge!

Cookies and Baileys for all those that got this far any help would be brilliant! thanks
 
Lunge without a bit if she won't drag you off your feet. Sounds like the bit is impacting overmuch and she's reacting to the pressure. Or taking the p!ss!
 
Have you tried a lunging cavesson with the line clipped to the centre noseband ring so as not to interfere with her mouth?

Have you tried long reining and then moving to the centre so that you are lunging on two reins?

When you say "experts" have tried lunging her do you mean people who are confident of their own abilities or someone who is qualified to teach lunging to PC lunging test requirements, (or someone who has a lunging qualification). There is a difference:)

You also say you hate lunging nearly as much as she does. Have you been taught to lunge properly or have you picked it up as you go along?

I do sympathise as I have a pony that is impossible to lunge, in fact the last time we tried I ended up unconscious.
 
Have you tried lunging with two lunge reins, one either side? Might help with the control.

Why can't she be turned out? What about letting her loose in the school to have a hooley?
 
There are several issues here, if she is not getting out at all she is feeling fresh, probably frustrated and possibly getting a bit stiff and work could be making her tight and sore. Can she not get some time out, I turnout one or two for just a couple of hours not every day but it is enough to keep them happy and relaxed in their work.
The lunging may be better if you try two reins it will give you more control or loose school her if turnout is really not an option then once she has settle try lunging her.
 
I absolutely love lungeing :D sad I know.

If it were me, I would lunge off two lines - sort of long reining come lungeing, but steering well clear of those back legs! With two lines, you do have more control - have someone there to assist you, especially the first few times you try it.

Or, if you have a safe school, just loose school her, does she respond to voice aids? If you can teach her voice aids, it makes loose schooling much easier. Loose schooling is more fun for the horse, but watch out for too much adrenalin, as they can get silly if they are fresh.
 
Can you not just 'loose school' her ie stand in the middle with a whip while she gallops round and round until she has lost her demons!

Very different situation but I can't lunge my gelding when he is too fresh because he just gallops round on the lunge and it's very lucky he has fallen. The next day I can lunge and he is fine.

Might be worth a try.
 
Try lunging from a Dually. A Cavesson doesn't give much control if they charge off and attaching a lunge line to the bit can hurt her mouth.
 
I personally wouldn't double lunge or longline (as opposed to longrein BTW) her if she is like this on the lunge - more lines to get tangled in if & when it goes wrong, which it sounds like it quite possibly will. I do prefer using two lines, so much more interactive - definately something to work towards but i wouldn't with her at the moment. Sounds to me like the fact she's been in for weeks is a big contributing factor - in her eyes she has every reason to be (literally!) as high as a kite. I'd take the bit out of her mouth cos she'll only end up damaging herself if she continues, get her in something like a cavesson or a dually, don my hat & gloves & send her out & let her express herself. So long as she's not on top off you or lashing out at you let her get on with it & get it out of her system. Then if you can yourself, or know someone who knows how to train a horse to pressure (in either a pressure halter or dually), work on teaching her that she can't use her speed & strength to get the better of you. Only once all that's been established would i expect her to go out & work properly on a lunge (or double or longline).
 
Is it absolutely vital that your mare can lunge if it just stressed you both out in the meantime? If you can't turn out then could you not 'free lunge' her to get a bit of energy out before riding? If not, then I'd get someone qualified to come up and have a go.
 
I lunge off a Dually. I find it gives better control when my 3.5 year old 17.1 warmblood goes off on one. I usually put it on as a headcollar and put his bridle over the top of it.

My OH took him for a quick leg stretch on Sunday because ours have been kept in quite a bit with the snow and ice. We are not allowed to loose school in our arena so he just took him out on a head collar, as he has done a few times before. Unfortunately this time the lunge line got tangled and as he bend down to sort it, neddy decided to have a hooley with the result that OH got kicked in the face :eek: Lucky he doesn't wear shoes, and OH came out of it with a bitten-through lip and had to have the root of a front tooth removed today with neddy kicked out for him :(

They are all really full of themselves at the moment, especially after this bad weather. You need your wits about you at all times, so anything you can do to make it safer the better.

Good luck.
 
My id (tank)!mare who loves to tank off on the lunge has to b lunged in a be nice.she knows better now and is currently going well with much better manners and respect.kinder than in a bit imo
 
I agree that you would probably be better working her off a lunge cavesson or a control halter.
If you know how to work her with two lines then that is the way to go but if you haven't done it before then not the horse to learn on!

What I do when a horse decides to go off on a charge and will not listen is to run them straight into the wall so they have to stop. You have to be fairly fast on your feet in that when she is charging run parallel to her shoulder and head her into the wall so that you are a barrier but at the end of the line. She will stop dead, you move to being behind her - still at the line length, allow her to go forward and repeat every tine she is not listening. She will soon catch on.
 
I have a mare that will shoot off on the lunge so I like to lunge from the bit for control, but I too hate putting through both bit rings and dont like putting it over the head and through, so I lunge from a showing in hand bridle attachment, it just buckles on both bit rings and has a ring in the middle to put the lunge line on, this way it never gets tight but you still have that control if you need it, if the horse spins round and changes rein it doesnt matter works the same each way without having to change it, works great on my horses.
 
Pinkvboots said:
I have a mare that will shoot off on the lunge so I like to lunge from the bit for control, but I too hate putting through both bit rings and dont like putting it over the head and through, so I lunge from a showing in hand bridle attachment, it just buckles on both bit rings and has a ring in the middle to put the lunge line on, this way it never gets tight but you still have that control if you need it, if the horse spins round and changes rein it doesnt matter works the same each way without having to change it, works great on my horses.
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This is what I do as well, allows more freedom if they get a bit sensitive in the mouth as you can't pull the bit through from the side.
I had to teach my TB to lunge in a small pen (19x19) as when attempting it in a normal sized arena he would just high tail it off into a corner. Sometimes the external environment may not be helping, when my TB was at one yard if the others on the yard were around it was like flying a kite :-) but if I could exercise him before they turned up he was an angel! funny creatures.
I also like the control 2 reins gives-if you have a roller on you can run one rein over the roller so not behind the horse (as once the line gets stuck under the tail you can expect more fireworks!)
 
I wouldn't bother trying to lunge her for now. It's something you've both struggled with before, & she's full of beans from being in & won't be concentrating. It's not worth making an issue of right now, teach her to lunge in summer when she's out more & relaxed & able to concentrate. For now I'd leave her loose in the arena for a play before riding, & if that's not an option just ride.
 
Littlelegs said:
I wouldn't bother trying to lunge her for now. It's something you've both struggled with before, & she's full of beans from being in & won't be concentrating. It's not worth making an issue of right now, teach her to lunge in summer when she's out more & relaxed & able to concentrate. For now I'd leave her loose in the arena for a play before riding, & if that's not an option just ride.
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I agree!! And personally I would never lunge off a bit....why not use a proper cavesson?
 
As above, I wouldn't try while she is being kept in when you are both struggling with it. Loose schooling instead, to let off steam - maybe I'd always loose school this horse, if I felt she really had an issue.
I don't like thinking of their joints being stressed by whizzing round in little circles.
 
Littlelegs said:
I wouldn't bother trying to lunge her for now. It's something you've both struggled with before, & she's full of beans from being in & won't be concentrating. It's not worth making an issue of right now, teach her to lunge in summer when she's out more & relaxed & able to concentrate. For now I'd leave her loose in the arena for a play before riding, & if that's not an option just ride.
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Alyth said:
I agree!! And personally I would never lunge off a bit....why not use a proper cavesson?
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Totally agree with both these. It sounds like she knows a bit is going to hurt when she is lunged so she gets in there first and runs off.

I would have her , to start with, in an ordinary headcollar, followed by a proper cavesson. Take her in the school and play with her rather than lunge her. Don't make her circle at the moment, go with her. When she is calm then run a few steps of trot with her and eventually let the line out so she quietly moves away from you with no panic.. Do lots of circles, just leading her and letting the line be slack; lots of halts , turns through poles on the ground; get her concentration and keep her calm.

Good luck.
 
Your poor horse. She needs turnout sorting pronto, and forget lunging, give her time in a field to let off steam by herself, and ride when she has recently had a self-induced leg stretch. There seems to be something she is very frightened of in lunging, and without seeing you it's impossible to say whether it's the bit, whip, the lunge lines, your technique, past experience or she could just find going in circles painful. Whatever it is I don't think it's essential for you that you have to lunge her at all, so this is one of the rare occasions I would recommend that you just don't try to get over/through this as it's too likely she or you will get hurt in the process. Get her doing in-hand work over obstacles in just her normal headcollar, backing up, set up a polework maze, etc if you want her to do some work before you get on.
 
3Beasties said:
Have you tried lunging with two lunge reins, one either side? Might help with the control.

Why can't she be turned out? What about letting her loose in the school to have a hooley?
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Turn her out.

Totally agree with two reins on the lunge as well. Turned my lunatic into a horse I can lunge in a head collar!

When I viewed her (this was the only bit I videoed, it was worse initially, it is not me lunging her!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyHww1bt2u0

Did some long reining on a circle. Very hard for them to muck about and easy for you to correct them if they do. You can use a dually for this as well. Stirrups must be high enough so they don't interfere with elbow and use another leather underneath to attach them together so they don't bang around.

Early temper tantrum when she realise she couldn't nap and stop on two lines:



Recently



Now in a head collar, despite 2 weeks off due to weather:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYPVUKqmLgg
 
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I agree with turnout for this poor lady - she sounds like she just needs to be out and be a horse!

Maybe once she's been out either in a school to play or in a field she might be more recepetive to work? Both of ours have their issues lunging, fat cob likes to work nicely then bog off in canter. He stopped after I learnt to bog off after him and NOT let go as he was just being naughty - almost like a game as he would go to a top corner turn and then stand beautifully squarely. After a week he seemed to have realised it wasn't worling and we could lunge like sensible pony in walk on both reins - didn't get any further as the snow stopped play :(

T'other ned the loony TB loves to lunge and will cheerfully do a spot of walk and then trot for england - it's harder to get him to stop than start! He also loves to go mental on the end of a lunge line and I let him do it as he is too silly to free school as he gallops at the arena fence and my heart can't take it. It is his way of getting the silly out of him, he bucks and plays about, then he'll settle into very nice work. I wouldn't dare lunge him if he had been stuck in 8 weeks - last time he got out after box rest we had to sedate him to turn him out - after 5 days of being turned out he is his normal sane self.

FWIW I lunge both in a bridle (with snaffle) with one line as 2 gets too messy, with gloves and a hat and I prefer them further away from me than close in case of kicks etc. I never lunge in a cavesson as if they are naughty and chose to do their own thing unless you are in a round or small pen you have no chance of stopping them. I's also suggest that if you can turn her out for a week or 2 and want to start lunging again go back to stratch, keep it short and have someone to help you/keep the horse company so she doesn't stress about. Even if you do one circle on each rein and she doesn't stress then end it there on a positive and in time you'll either buil dup or discover what makes her like this.

Sorry for the ramble and good luck :)
 
I would attach the lungeline to a caveson or dually but then use sidereins between her mouth and the roller which it doesn't sound like you are doing at the moment and means that she can take the pee much easier ...

I would consider that there might be a problem / reason for her doing it but also accept that it might just be a learned evaision...

I agree, you could do with sorting out her living arrangements to give her more turnout. If that means moving yards, so be it.
 
The turnout is a massive issue for us, all the other liverys go out every other day and this was what we did last winter at the same yard, but because of my mare wanting to come in she has galloped up and down the summer field they were in and ploughed it, the YO said that she was worried that she would 'do' a tendon in that mud, yet no offer of the better field that they were in last winter which has a bottle neck to the gate and hard standing and grass which would have kept her happier as it did last winter, also the YO had promised to help me through the winter by bringing them in for me but as its a long walk and my mare is vile to bring in I suspect it has more to do with the bringing in than the sudden need of my horse to be in 'because she clearly doesn't like winter' this mare wants for nothing all bar some turnout, I just don't know how to approach the YO and I don't want to make too much of a push for it as I lost a wonderful horse to an injury sustained in the winter in the field, I don't want my mare to go crazy and hurt herself but now this has all made the winter worse and I have to somehow get my 2 back out in a field without killing themselves or eachother and I just don't know what to do!
 
I think you simply need to sit down with your YO and come up with an arrangement that suits you (the Client) and your horse.

I would pay for the mare to be brought in at a time that suits her (presumably earlier than everything else), so that you are assured that her needs are being met.

If none of that could be achieved - i'd look to move to a yard that will meet both yours and your horses needs better.

You have two that have to remain in??
 
I would be looking at moving yards to be honest. Try discussing things with your yard owner to get your two out on a regular basis - to be honest I'd prefer my horses to go out for 4 hours every day rather than 8 hours every other day - I think regular turnout routines are key to keeping them sane and preventing injuries occuring. That said, horses being horses, if they are going to 'do a tendon' they will. there's no preventing it...
 
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