Magnet boots . . . . .

[Evadiva1514]

I never said there was any proof that magnets work for everybody, in my case my horse made a definite improvement whilst using them, and so of course i'm going to carry on using them in the future if i need to.

My horse went lame a few years ago now due to many factors and at the time he had been weaned off all medication but was still very pottery and we had decided to retire him. Following advice from my vet i tried the magnetic wraps which were applied for a few hours in his box per day and he gradually became sounder as i have mentioned in a previous post.

He was having exactly the same regime (number of hours turnout etc etc) so in my mind i didn't change anything in his management to suggest that there was another controlling factor aiding his recovery.

When i joined this thread, my argument was that, why do you have to know everything about a product to try it out, i bought them, tried them and it worked... simple as and i now have a horse that is 100% sound and happy and he may have come sound without the magnetic therapy who knows but i feel that they enhanced his recovery!!

Surely if your horse went lame you would try anything and everything to help and make them more comfortable????

 

[smokeybabes]

I don't think i would try "everything and anything" just in case it could do more damage!
If a vet/physio/YO/joe bloggs (basically anyone!) suggested something i'd try and do as much research on it as possible, ask as many people as possible, but also try to get evidence (Scientific) it worked on problem i wanted it to.
There are many products/things in equine world that are used when people don't really know the effect and they could potentially be doing more harm.
The majority of magnetic boot makers claim they increase blood flow - this is suggesting that the blood is attracted to the magnet. If i cut my finger and held a magnet by it would the blood be pulled towards it? No it would just trickle down as normal with gravity.

 

[puddicat]

gosh its very cloudy tonight, i wonder if it will rain ?

 

[Evadiva1514]

Yep, i can see a few storm clouds over this way!! LOL!!

 

[Evadiva1514]

[ QUOTE ]
The majority of magnetic boot makers claim they increase blood flow - this is suggesting that the blood is attracted to the magnet. If i cut my finger and held a magnet by it would the blood be pulled towards it? No it would just trickle down as normal with gravity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just found this on the horse & hound website. I hope this proves to be the explanation you have been looking for:

Blood is an electrical conductor and blood cells have a natural current flowing through them. When injury occurs, they are knocked out of alignment.
Magnetic therapy can help recharge the cells and put them back in place. It can be used for a range of problems, from muscle strains and windgalls to arthritis and general stiffness. As with any alternative therapy, do check with your vet first. Do not use on open wounds or recent injuries.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/37063.html

Hope this helps, if you have any further issues regarding Magnetic therapy it might be best for you to take it up with the companies concerned. I have used them, not invented them!! LOL!!

 

[lordflynn]

[/ QUOTE ]

Blood is an electrical conductor and blood cells have a natural current flowing through them. When injury occurs, they are knocked out of alignment.
Magnetic therapy can help recharge the cells and put them back in place.


[/ QUOTE ]

what are they aligned with? themselves?
well I never, a degree and a PhD in a biological science and I didnt know that blood cells move around the body in formation

 

[puddicat]

I thought it looked a bit unsettled in your direction. Maybe you're in for a magnetic storm ?

 

[Evadiva1514]

This is all completely irrelevant!!!

I must be the only person that believes magnet therapy works then.... Well there you go, im sure the shops will be clearing the shelves of them then as they are obviously no good at all!!! PMSL!!!!

 

[puddicat]

I didnt know that blood cells move around the body in formation

biology is just amazing isn't it, someone told me that geese fly in formation but I'd have to see that to believe it.

 

[Fiona]

Are you saying that alternative therapies shouldn't be provided on the NHS then, or that homeopathy or acupuncture or chinese medicine should be outlawed because there isn't a scientificexplanation for how they work...

I have a 5yo mare with pedalosteitis (due to a field injury) and I am bombarding her with all the magnetic boots/MSM/joint supplements that I can get my hands on before she sees the vet again in 2 months for more xrays. They may not work for everyone, but they undoubtedly work for some (see above posters esp Theresa_F) and thats good enough for me...at this stage I will try anything which won't actually hurt my mare in an effort to see her right again.

Fiona

 

[Evadiva1514]

Fiona - I hope you have as much success with your treatment as i had with my boy... Good luck with the xrays and i hope everything works out for you and your mare...

 

[lordflynn]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that alternative therapies shouldn't be provided on the NHS then, or that homeopathy or acupuncture or chinese medicine should be outlawed because there isn't a scientificexplanation for how they work...



[/ QUOTE ]

er, no-dont think I said that anywhere!

Its not that fact that they do or dont work that bothers me as much as incorrect information. what can I say-I'm a pedant!
I accept that there is no scientific explanation but I object to twaddle being given out as such.

 

[Evadiva1514]

[ QUOTE ]
I accept that there is no scientific explanation but I object to twaddle being given out as such.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its twaddle being featured on the Horse & hound website!!

Take it up with them!!!

 

[druid]

[ QUOTE ]

Blood is an electrical conductor and blood cells have a natural current flowing through them. When injury occurs, they are knocked out of alignment.
Magnetic therapy can help recharge the cells and put them back in place.

[/ QUOTE ]

*wipes away tears* Priceless!

 

[Ginn]

[ QUOTE ]

Blood is an electrical conductor and blood cells have a natural current flowing through them. When injury occurs, they are knocked out of alignment.
Magnetic therapy can help recharge the cells and put them back in place. It can be used for a range of problems, from muscle strains and windgalls to arthritis and general stiffness. As with any alternative therapy, do check with your vet first. Do not use on open wounds or recent injuries.


[/ QUOTE ]

Im sorry but what complete and utter bollocks!

 

[Ginn]

[ QUOTE ]
Its not that fact that they do or dont work that bothers me as much as incorrect information. what can I say-I'm a pedant!
I accept that there is no scientific explanation but I object to twaddle being given out as such.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree - if people want to use magnetic products on the basis that the supposedly worked for Joe Bloggs and they don't mind spending the money on the chance that an injury may improve, whether by coincidence or something which cannot be explained then fine, but please don't ask me to support these products and please accept that my opinion is as valid as the next persons.

 

[MistletoeMegan]

Good for a giggle - this information is from a website selling magnetic health products;

[ QUOTE ]
Magnetic Deficiency: Many people believe that modern day mankind may be "magnetic deficient". This condition may be arising from modern life, the insulating effect of living and working in concrete and high-rise buildings. Added to this we are surrounded by a surfeit of electronic and electrical gadgetry. Both of these effects actually block our natural exposure to the Earths magnetic field. There is also a relatively recent decline in the Earth's magnetic field. If this 'magnetic deficiency' is true, it may be the cause behind many recent unexplained illnesses, and why the use of magnets can have a positive effect in so many conditions.


[/ QUOTE ]

That must be why I'm feeling under the weather - I haven't had my daily dose of magnets

[ QUOTE ]
A magnetic field penetrates every single cell being exposed to the field. This in turn is believed to influence the ion exchange within the cell, which improves the oxygen utilization of the cell.

Magnetism can help heal nervous tissue and bones by speeding up the migration of calcium ions

It is thought that the magnetism increases the electrical conductivity of the blood, creating a weak current and increasing the quantity of ions

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Ginn]

He-he!! What will they come up with next!

 

[Kezza]

We didn't use them on a cut and would never, ever do that. We used them above the swelling like you are supposed to!

 

[lordflynn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I accept that there is no scientific explanation but I object to twaddle being given out as such.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its twaddle being featured on the Horse & hound website!!

Take it up with them!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

absolutely! sorry-wasnt havent a go at you but at the article. I do wonder who or even if they have a scientific journo/editor but they obviously need one!

 

[Beanyowner]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I accept that there is no scientific explanation but I object to twaddle being given out as such.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well its twaddle being featured on the Horse & hound website!!

Take it up with them!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

But as most people know there is a lot of stuff all over the internet which is complete rubbish...H&H probably got their information from a magnetic supplier or 'googled' it or something random like that...I doubt they employ someone to trawl through all the scientific journals to make sure they have a 100% proven comment.

I feel we have gone off on a tangent by the way...

 

[lordflynn]

[/ QUOTE ]

But as most people know there is a lot of stuff all over the internet which is complete rubbish...H&H probably got their information from a magnetic supplier or 'googled' it or something random like that...I doubt they employ someone to trawl through all the scientific journals to make sure they have a 100% proven comment.

I feel we have gone off on a tangent by the way...

[/ QUOTE ]

oh well, sorry about that -thought the thread was just evolving a bit and was quite amusing!

No, I doubt H&H research very much but I do believe they have a duty not to present stuff as fact if its not-if its sales bleurgh/opinion they should say so.

 

[Theresa_F]

I think at the end of the day, if it works, does no harm, great. People can make their own decision whether to try or not to try them. When there is nothing left, you will try anything - including quack remedies.

I was at the end of the road - I had a heavy horse that was stumbling on 4 bute a day and it was heart breaking for me to watch him and my OH, who was in tears to see him in pain.

X-rays had confirmed he had low ringbone and had hid it for so long, the vet said that he had been like this for several years, that there was no treatment - that is the problem with these chaps - they don't often show there is a problem until it is bad. It was not my ignorance, he had only been seen by the vet a few months prior for his annual MOT and prounced sound and healthy.

My vet recommended trying the straps. I would not just try anything willy nilly on my old boy.

There is no scientific proof that it works. I totally agree with the scientific explanations and would offer no argument against them.

My straps offer no support - they are just 1/2" wide.

There was no other change to his circumstances other than the straps.

I am not saying they are miracle cures, but that something about them helps my old chap. Hence my comment that if I remove them he goes unsound again. I cannot attempt to explain why they help, if someone can, I would be delighted to know why. All I can say is that they just do.

If magnets mean that he can enjoy life without bute, and remain sound enough to continue in work, rather than stumbling on 4 bute a day. I will continue to use them and I will post that Cairo finds them helpful, even if there is no reason why.

Puddicat, I am disappointed, I was so looking forward to your debates - and that is not intended to be a sarcastic comment, but the truth. I find your reasoning and explanations very instructive and enjoyable.

Maybe this is a subject that we should keep an open mind to until one day there is an explanation why some of us have found them to work. Puddicat has already started to enlighten me with the theory of randomness.

 

[lordflynn]

[ QUOTE ]
I think at the end of the day, if it works, does no harm, great. People can make their own decision whether to try or not to try them. When there is nothing left, you will try anything - including quack remedies.


[/ QUOTE ]

completely agree with you. My issue was with the information in the article-which was incorrect.
I dont have a problem with most alternative therapies, I have a problem with companies presenting information as fact when they have no proof.

 

[Beanyowner]

Oh I am keeping an open mind about them...but just commenting on what is known in anatomical terms and how magnets work and how the two don't seem to come to a conclusion of actually doing anything!!
There are many random things in this world...my horse is one of them!

 

[Nikiolola]

Finally - other people who can't see how magnetic therapy could possibly work

For all of you that do believe it works, this is worth reading;- a very good explaination on why magnetic therapy is a complete scam

http://www.csicop.org/si/9807/magnet.html

 

[MagicMelon]

I dont know how magnets work, but as someone else has said on here - MOST people also dont know how bute etc. works in a horse!

I myself think it works - I put the boots on and my horses windgalls go down (during heat waves when the ground is solid and nothing else makes them go down). Someone I know put them on her horse, the horses legs no longer swell up in the stable (and they'd tried lots of things). Take them off and they swell again. How do you explain this?? Sure, if its just a one off then it could be put down to something else making it better but over and over again????

TBH I dont give a crap what you lot think about magnets. They work on my horses, therefore I will continue to use them. I dont normally believe in things like this however I gave them a shot and feel they DO work. I would never use anything on my horses which I believe would cause them harm and I am yet to hear of ANYONE having problems / side effects with the use of magnets therefore I think them safe.

If they were one massive scam, why do so many people buy them? Wouldn't Bioflow, Armadillo etc. all be out of business?? I think so.....

 

[puddicat]

Puddicat, I am disappointed, I was so looking forward to your debates...

Actually I thought I'd done pretty well to resist the temptation to jump in !!! I didn't really want to say the same old things again but I think I do have a point I'd like to make that I might post later when I've had time to think about it a bit more.

What I'm becoming increasingly interesting in as I read these posts is how you get people who are not able to understand the information they receive about something to be able to evaluate it. Previously thank's to HHO I'd drawn the conclusion it was impossible, I'm just reevaluating that now to work out in my own mind what the problems are - like I say I might post something on that later.

What is clear to me now is that apart from stating ones view on the subject there's not a lot to be gained by arguing the case because there is so much information that can be citied on either side. If you're a scientist you're trained to evaluate information and its clear that the information on magnet produts is nonsense, if you're not a scientist you can't see that. Interestingly this thread seems to have been almost excusively scientists arguing one side against non-scientists arguing the other. I guess most people would just see this as an equal argument with each party presenting their views with equal authority. But science IS fundamentally a method of understanding and evaluating information dispassionately - that's what academic degrees in science train you to do. So effectively you have people who are trained in how to evaluate information in a way that prevents them from being fooled by the weaknesses of human thinking - saying magnetic devices are nonsense versus people without that training saying that they work. For me its gets interesting when you think about why people without the scientific training don't immediately believe the scientists. There, I've said half of what I was going to say anyway now! to be continued... possibly!

 

[ihatework]

Puddicat you are right in many ways and I think manage to put across a good clear argument (on whatever subject) be it right or wrong. As scientists we have the skills to stand back and look at information presented to us.

You may not class me as a 'true' scientist, I have gone over to the dark side aka industry! And I will freely admit that my Biology BSc. isn't exactly in depth science but we both know that science is continually evolving and our knowledge widens everyday.

It is therefore plausable that in the future an acceptable scientific theory for magnets as a form of therapy may be born. But until I see this I will continue to be skeptical.

Just as an aside, I've recently been working with a new drug. The general mechanism of the drug is known but the specific reasons for its effects once in the body is still unexplained. However there is a significant statistical difference between this drug and the current treatment when comparing tumour shrinkage in terminally ill cancer patients.

 

[Theresa_F]

[ QUOTE ]
What is clear to me now is that apart from stating ones view on the subject there's not a lot to be gained by arguing the case because there is so much information that can be citied on either side

[/ QUOTE ]

So very true - I do not in any way disbelieve you and all I can offer is the experience I have. As in our correspondence, I have stated that I disregard a lot of "quack remedies" as being a waste of time.

However, as I said earlier, if someone had told me that standing him on top of the muck heap for an hour a day whilst wearing no clothes would help him, I was so desperate that I would have done it (once I had spoken to my vet to ensure that it could not do any harm to him).

If anyone can give an explanation as to why magnets apparently do something to make him comfortable, I would love to know. From a science point of view I am wasting time and money but from his reaction to having these straps put on and this is the only change I have made, and it happens within a dayor two of having them on, something does occur.

If he were human, we could say it is in the mind, but he does not know they are there, or what they contain. If it were only a mild improvement, I could easily image things, but in his case you would have to be blind not to see the great difference wearing them makes.

I would very much like to hear the conclusion you reach on this, and the other things you are currently pondering upon.