Managing lami risk by pulses?

[Wheels]

She been on straw all summer but I can't source wrapped chopped straw in bulk any more and long straw carries a colic risk so I don't want to feed it. It would also be difficult to source and to store and I have four tons of haylage to use up. She's doing great on soaked haylage, I don't see any need to change it.
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Is she losing weight on your regime of muzzled / out and night and soaked haylage during the day? Does she get adlib haulage when shes in?

I would want to see some weight loss if she is fat as you say she is rather than just checking pulses.

 

[Sandstone1]

Am I the only one who thinks soaking haylage is not advisable? Also my vet is very against feeding haylage due to the amount of sugar which not only is bad for laminitics but is bad for teeth too.

 

[ycbm]

Is she losing weight on your regime of muzzled / out and night and soaked haylage during the day?

Early days but she looks tighter in the belly to me.

Does she get adlib haulage when shes in?

No, I limit her to one artic and a 7.5 tonner. Great typo ?

She gets just enough to last her until 2 hours before she goes out if she hoovers every scrap off the floor.

I would want to see some weight loss if she is fat as you say she is rather than just checking pulses.

She's definitely fat compared to a sports horse, but probably not compared to most people's cobs, and the Spanish thing confuses the issue a bit for me as I've never had one before.

At the moment my aim is to get her to winter and use that to get the weight off, rather than restricting her food any more than I have to. Since it was 2 degrees here this morning that might be sooner rather than later!
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[Wheels]

Early days but she looks tighter in the belly to me.



No, I limit her to one artic and a 7.5 tonner. Great typo ?

She gets just enough to last her until 2 hours before she goes out if she hoovers every scrap off the floor.



She's definitely fat compared to a sports horse, but probably not compared to most people's cobs, and the Spanish thing confuses the issue a bit for me as I've never had one before.

At the moment my aim is to get her to winter and use that to get the weight off, rather than restricting her food any more than I have to. Since it was 2 degrees here this morning that might be sooner rather than later!
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My phone loves changing what I'm trying to say! I once texted and asked my farmer friend to bring me 50 bales of hate although I swear I typed hage but my phone didnt approve of that!

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I'm really on the fence and perhaps unknowledgeable about using the cold to shed weight. I'd worry it'd make my horse stiff being more exposed to the cold. Or lead to tighter muscles. Maybe I just don't know how it's done. I suppose it's done in nature too.

So how does one control weight this way without other negative effects? Or am I thinking too complex ?

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Also my vet is very against feeding haylage due to the amount of sugar which not only is bad for laminitics but is bad for teeth too.

Sandstone Haylage doesn’t necessarily have a high sugar content and there are several companies now who produce a low sugar version specifically for the fattie market using grasses that don’t contain rye or alfalfa. I feed meadow grass haylage to my two during the winter, one is EMS and the other has had laminitis and it has absolutely no effect on either of them.

 

[Goldenstar]

Am I the only one who thinks soaking haylage is not advisable? Also my vet is very against feeding haylage due to the amount of sugar which not only is bad for laminitics but is bad for teeth too.

Hay can have a higher sugar content than haylege .
You should not be feeding horses at risk of laminitis forage where it not been analysed no matter what it is .

 

[ycbm]

I'm really on the fence and perhaps unknowledgeable about using the cold to shed weight. I'd worry it'd make my horse stiff being more exposed to the cold. Or lead to tighter muscles. Maybe I just don't know how it's done. I suppose it's done in nature too.

So how does one control weight this way without other negative effects? Or am I thinking too complex ?

You just leave the rug off and put a light one on if you think they are cold. I use this method of weight control on myself, I have no fears of doing it with a horse. They use their fat to keep warm. That doesn't mean they are cold.
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[windand rain]

My concern about using cold to make them lose weight is that some will think it okay to keep them cold while stabling for long hours with limited movement they are just cold. Living out they can move to keep warm and use more calories
Possibly my anthropomorphism but I hate being cold so will move a lot if I am or will add layers. I cannot see how cooped up in a stable freezing cold will do more than make the horse abjectly miserable

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Leaving a rug off and allowing nature to do its thing over winter is perfectly ok but the animal needs to move and it needs ad lib Forage to fuel the inner furnace. My rules are crisp, dry, sunny or snowy days leave a rug off. High winds combined with continual or driving rain I put on a rain sheet.

 

[TwyfordM]

Weird routine has kept my cushings pony lami free for a good few years.
She won't keep a muzzle on, won't stay in strip grazing if it was even possible on the yard we're on. Gets colicky if she doesn't have enough hay etc etc.

She stays in for a full 24hrs, hay bag stuffed full of dry hay overnight then a smaller net in the morning. 2 feeds in that time, cush care conditioner, healthy hooves and nuts as she has supplements (Devils claw and turmeric for prev injury)
Then goes out for a full 24hrs in 10 acre herd field, lots of hills and it's set up with woods as a track round and big field at the end so they are constantly moving.

She doesn't get fat, but also doesn't drop too much. I adjust feed etc through the year but not by much. Honestly did it originally as an "I don't know how much time you have left, so I'm going to let you enjoy it" move. But surprisingly... Its worked! And she's happier and healthier than ever. She's retired and lame from a neck injury so other than some in hand walks she's not doing any work.

Pulses are a waaaay too late warning for her. By the time she has pulses, she's already having an episode.

Rambled on a bit but just wanted to show how different each horses "right" way of staying slim and issue free can be.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have two friends who do the PREs one has three ,two of them never go on the grass they have a dry lot like you see in the States one goes out in a bare small paddock .
These PREs came from Spain so grew up with no access to grass as we know it .
Yours may be different because she’s had access to grass through her life .
However she must not be fat I personally think management by pulses would be a big mistake and the only option is restriction and hopefully a hard winter on restricted forage followed by more work as she gets older will make it easier .
I have been in the situation of having two in the field in winter one good doer and one more normal it was a complete pain the good doer came out of winter far too fat despite me only giving access to forage part of the time .
Having horses living together outside with different dietary needs is extremely difficult to get right .

 

[paddy555]

I've had several South American breeds with are Spanish ancestry so I understand your problem. The worst part is when they are too young to work hard either due to age or needing more training. They just pile the pounds on. I tried a track around a grass field on the basis he would chase his pony round. He did't make much effort and it had no effect. The only thing I have found that works for weight control on this type of horse is work and more work. Not in an arena but out trotting up hills. If Deza is 6 now then by next spring perhaps her training will have progressed sufficiently to move onto a hard work exercise regime. I am planning daily rides 7 days a week in the winter to try and keep the weight under control. Some of them seem to get fat on fresh air.

 

[ycbm]

Weird routine has kept my cushings pony lami free for a good few years.
She won't keep a muzzle on, won't stay in strip grazing if it was even possible on the yard we're on. Gets colicky if she doesn't have enough hay etc etc.

She stays in for a full 24hrs, hay bag stuffed full of dry hay overnight then a smaller net in the morning. 2 feeds in that time, cush care conditioner, healthy hooves and nuts as she has supplements (Devils claw and turmeric for prev injury)
Then goes out for a full 24hrs in 10 acre herd field, lots of hills and it's set up with woods as a track round and big field at the end so they are constantly moving.

She doesn't get fat, but also doesn't drop too much. I adjust feed etc through the year but not by much. Honestly did it originally as an "I don't know how much time you have left, so I'm going to let you enjoy it" move. But surprisingly... Its worked! And she's happier and healthier than ever. She's retired and lame from a neck injury so other than some in hand walks she's not doing any work.

Pulses are a waaaay too late warning for her. By the time she has pulses, she's already having an episode.

Rambled on a bit but just wanted to show how different each horses "right" way of staying slim and issue free can be.

Very interesting! Thanks for that.
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[ycbm]

I've had several South American breeds with are Spanish ancestry so I understand your problem. The worst part is when they are too young to work hard either due to age or needing more training. They just pile the pounds on. I tried a track around a grass field on the basis he would chase his pony round. He did't make much effort and it had no effect. The only thing I have found that works for weight control on this type of horse is work and more work. Not in an arena but out trotting up hills. If Deza is 6 now then by next spring perhaps her training will have progressed sufficiently to move onto a hard work exercise regime. I am planning daily rides 7 days a week in the winter to try and keep the weight under control. Some of them seem to get fat on fresh air.

She's 7 already Paddy. Even a half hour hack here is a good workout because of the hills, so i am able to get work into her now she's been fittening up for two months. I don't think she would move on a track either. She stands in one place all day long in the barn and barely moves a muscle. She's certainly good at conserving her energy!
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[ycbm]

I have two friends who do the PREs one has three ,two of them never go on the grass they have a dry lot like you see in the States one goes out in a bare small paddock .
These PREs came from Spain so grew up with no access to grass as we know it .
Yours may be different because she’s had access to grass through her life .
However she must not be fat I personally think management by pulses would be a big mistake and the only option is restriction and hopefully a hard winter on restricted forage followed by more work as she gets older will make it easier .
I have been in the situation of having two in the field in winter one good doer and one more normal it was a complete pain the good doer came out of winter far too fat despite me only giving access to forage part of the time .
Having horses living together outside with different dietary needs is extremely difficult to get right .

I have to admit that I'm not committed to keeping her at the moment, because of the difficulty. They are going to need different forage from each other this winter, which means separating the barn in two, which completely ruins the whole point of a barn system. It was so much easier to have two sport horses. I am going to give her a good education over the winter and see how I feel about her in the spring.
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[paddy555]

She stands in one place all day long in the barn and barely moves a muscle. She's certainly good at conserving her energy!
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or to put it more bluntly I call mine "lazy little devils"

 

[ycbm]

Aaaaaarrrgggghhhhh!!!!!!!

I checked her just now and after 3 nights in a Greenguard muzzle she had a rub on her chin that has removed hair and drawn blood and another on her nose that has raised a small lump. I've now filled it with sheepskin, but it's looking like even a muzzle is going to be pita.

Anyone want to buy a nice graded PRE mare? ?
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[HashRouge]

I can't use muzzles for the same reason, really annoying!

For years mine have been good doers and had the same diet, but over the last 12 months the 27 Yr old has begun to need more food to keep a good weight. Not surprising given her age but it's a pain in the butt managing their different requirements! At the moment the Welsh is fatter than I'd like but OK, but when they go on the winter field I'm thinking of separating them so she can graze down the long grass during the day, then go back in with him overnight.
It's a real pain when they need different management!

I know... You send me Ludo and I'll send you my Welsh ?

 

[SEL]

I'd have a skinny over a fatty any day!!!

 

[ycbm]

I know... You send me Ludo and I'll send you my Welsh ?

NOT for sale!

I've been told I could get ten grand for him tomorrow, and yesterday he was doing shoulder in to straight to travers to straight before the corner on the 40 metre side in our lesson, at his first attempt.

I love him to bits ???

 

[meleeka]

She stands in one place all day long in the barn and barely moves a muscle. She's certainly good at conserving her energy!
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Mine don’t seem to move much, but the water is the other end to the hay so they don’t have a lot of choice!

 

[HashRouge]

NOT for sale!

I've been told I could get ten grand for him tomorrow, and yesterday he was doing shoulder in to straight to travers to straight before the corner on the 40 metre side in our lesson, at his first attempt.

I love him to bits ???

Haha I know you do! Worth a try ?

Though I really wouldn't part with the Welsh for all the tea in China, but goodness I do miss the days when neither of mine needed a feed all summer and looked incredible on a bare paddock ?

 

[GinaGeo]

It’s really hard having different management needs. Part of the reason we bought mum a small EMS typical Show Pony when Mickey was off injured was so Mickey had company on his grassless track, whilst my two sport horses were out in the field ?

Mick wears a Shires Deluxe Muzzle in an X-Full. It hangs off him, but doesn’t touch him anywhere to rub.

Every other muzzle I’ve tried does rub ?

 

[chaps89]

The greenguards are fairly known for rubbing unfortunately.
I've been using an ultimate muzzle this year (when there's been enough grass to warrant it) and it's worked well.
https://ultimatemuzzle.com
I know some other posters here have been using the thin line flexible filly muzzle and seemed happy with it. That's my next one to try as and when I need to but the ultimate was quite a bit cheaper so went with that first.

 

[ycbm]

I really, really dislike the ones with a single hole. I see them turning horses into pecking hens. If needs must, I will, but she's out now with a sheepskin liner at the chin over the top strap, so we'll see what happens now.
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[Wheels]

The greenguards are fairly known for rubbing unfortunately.
I've been using an ultimate muzzle this year (when there's been enough grass to warrant it) and it's worked well.
https://ultimatemuzzle.com
I know some other posters here have been using the thin line flexible filly muzzle and seemed happy with it. That's my next one to try as and when I need to but the ultimate was quite a bit cheaper so went with that first.

I bought this muzzle but it has rubbed my horses chin quite badly. I will sell it on and go for a flexible filly next I think

 

[ycbm]

I bought this muzzle but it has rubbed my horses chin quite badly. I will sell it on and go for a flexible filly next I think

Good to know, thanks.
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[chaps89]

I bought this muzzle but it has rubbed my horses chin quite badly. I will sell it on and go for a flexible filly next I think

It's tricky isn't it, what fits one doesn't fit another! I do think you have to fit them big like the website says (not saying you didn't, just that I can see how it would be easy to have them too small and how they'd then rub)

 

[Sandstone1]

Am I the only one who thinks soaking haylage is not advisable? Also my vet is very against feeding haylage due to the amount of sugar which not only is bad for laminitics but is bad for teeth too.

Well, my vet doesnt agree with soaking haylage and everything I have read advises against it.
Last years soaked hay in small holed nets, possibly a hay ball too to help keep them occupied, a track system if possible will all help. I f you wait til you get pulses its probably already too late.