Managing lami risk by pulses?

[ycbm]

I wonder what your vet thinks about putting a big bale into a field in the rain in winter to feed a group of horses for up to a week.

I've soaked haylage for years. One year i had to soak the whole year's batch to make it less acidic. I have never noticed any difference from soaking hay. Each to their own.

It is a myth, surely, that last year's hay contains fewer calories than this year's? Vitamins degrade, carbs don't?

And your vet is totally, unequivocally wrong on sugar in haylage. For the same field of grass, haylage is lower in sugar than hay due to fermentation. Whether any particular hay is lower sugar than haylage depends on the grass it was made from and the time of day it was cut.
.

 

[IrishMilo]

I wonder what your vet thinks about putting a big bale into a field in the rain in winter to feed a group of horses for up to a week.

But two wrongs don't make a right?

 

[ycbm]

But two wrongs don't make a right?

Is it wrong, though, if it's done so widely and creates no problems for the people who do it?

We've never been more concerned with cleanliness in our horses living arrangements and food, yet anecdotally there seem to be ever increasing rates of allergies, asthma and dodgy guts. I'm beginning to suspect there may be a relationship.

 

[HelenBack]

Not much to add to the original question but my vet did tell me that soaking haylage is fine.

 

[GoldenWillow]

I've had two very good doers so I feel your pain! I found the best way to stop the greenguard rubbing was silage tape wrapped through the slots covering the area that was rubbing.

 

[Sandstone1]

I wonder what your vet thinks about putting a big bale into a field in the rain in winter to feed a group of horses for up to a week.

I've soaked haylage for years. One year i had to soak the whole year's batch to make it less acidic. I have never noticed any difference from soaking hay. Each to their own.

It is a myth, surely, that last year's hay contains fewer calories than this year's? Vitamins degrade, carbs don't?

And your vet is totally, unequivocally wrong on sugar in haylage. For the same field of grass, haylage is lower in sugar than hay due to fermentation. Whether any particular hay is lower sugar than haylage depends on the grass it was made from and the time of day it was cut.
.

Its not just my vet try having a look at the world horse welfare webinar on keeping a horse a healthy weight.
Is there anything you are not a expert on by the way?
https://www.spillers-feeds.com/faqs-on-our-care-line-to-do-with-laminitis/
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/h.html#Haylage

 

[ponyparty]

We had to soak haylage for a pony at a yard I used to work on - on vet advice. Just had to be careful not to soak too long or leave it out in the heat in summer (I.e. soak and feed straight away).

 

[Sandstone1]

people may well do it but its not recommended.

 

[Sandstone1]

Im guessing the laminitis site and Spillers also do not know what they are talking about?

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I'm really on the fence and perhaps unknowledgeable about using the cold to shed weight. I'd worry it'd make my horse stiff being more exposed to the cold. Or lead to tighter muscles. Maybe I just don't know how it's done. I suppose it's done in nature too.

So how does one control weight this way without other negative effects? Or am I thinking too complex ?

I use this method to help keep the weight off my big lad, its esp helpful if they are unable to work.

It's not about keeping them cold, you want them lukewarm so they use their body weight to make themselves toasty. Even when he is clipped and my other one is in a heavy weight with neck he is in a 100g without or 200g without depending on how warm I feel he is.

I also have the added benefit he is a hot horse and will come out in heat bumps if he gets too hot.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Sounds like Deza would fit right in with my lot!

 

[Tiddlypom]

From the laminitis site referred to above. Nic Barker of Rockley Farm‘s words on equine management are usually treated as gospel on this forum. Unless she’s changed her stance since 2011?

All About Hay and Haylage - Nic Barker, Rockley Farm blog Nov 2011
"Haylage need not be soaked because (a) high levels of water soluble sugars are not present and (b) once wet, it goes off and becomes unpalatable extremely quickly"

I don’t feed haylage so have never tried to soak it, but I did used to soak hay, and hay starts to heat up pretty quickly if you leave it soaking too long.

 

[Sandstone1]

Im afraid the OP will do as she pleases anyway.

 

[scats]

Ycbm- if you are looking for a non-rub muzzle, I’d definitely give the flexible filly a try. It has been an absolute lifesaver for me with two good doers. Neither mare minds it in the slightest. I did cut the hole a little larger though.
No rubs, no removals.
I just wish this had been around when Diva was alive.

 

[Wheels]

The greenguards are fairly known for rubbing unfortunately.
I've been using an ultimate muzzle this year (when there's been enough grass to warrant it) and it's worked well.
https://ultimatemuzzle.com
I know some other posters here have been using the thin line flexible filly muzzle and seemed happy with it. That's my next one to try as and when I need to but the ultimate was quite a bit cheaper so went with that first.

Thanks for the link, the chin rub thing must happen quite a lot since they sell a bit of fluff called a chin pad, I hadnt seen that before so I will order one to see if it helps.

 

[Wheels]

Is it wrong, though, if it's done so widely and creates no problems for the people who do it?

.

I think that's a bit different though - if it rains then it's only really the outside of the bale that gets wet, IME that's the bit that gets pulled off and shat on lol

 

[ycbm]

I've had two very good doers so I feel your pain! I found the best way to stop the greenguard rubbing was silage tape wrapped through the slots covering the area that was rubbing.

Ooh, interesting, thanks.
.

 

[ycbm]

I think that's a bit different though - if it rains then it's only really the outside of the bale that gets wet, IME that's the bit that gets pulled off and shat on lol

My experience is it goes right down the centre, the bit that gets eaten last.
.

 

[ycbm]

Im guessing the laminitis site and Spillers also do not know what they are talking about?

A lot of people have been saying that about the Laminitis site for years! There used to be loads of bags of food with their logo on, that they were paid for, which people couldn't feed to their lami horses.

And personally I wouldn't trust a Spillers spokesman on feeding horses further than I could throw a bag of their food.

These things are said once by someone and get repeated round all sorts of sites. I've seen no evidence at all that soaking haylage and feeding it immediately causes any harm whatsoever.

.

 

[ycbm]

Ycbm- if you are looking for a non-rub muzzle, I’d definitely give the flexible filly a try. It has been an absolute lifesaver for me with two good doers. Neither mare minds it in the slightest. I did cut the hole a little larger though.
No rubs, no removals.
I just wish this had been around when Diva was alive.

Next on my list to try, thank you

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Im guessing the laminitis site and Spillers also do not know what they are talking about?

Honestly I wouldn’t take any advice from the Laminitis Trust if they paid me. As for a feed company, you can make your own mind up. Those that are above board will always publish the amounts of starch and sugar in their feed along with any fillers added. Having a recovered lamanitic and and EMS pony Spillers isn’t one I would ever use but that’s just a personal preference.

 

[ycbm]

Its not just my vet try having a look at the world horse welfare webinar on keeping a horse a healthy weight.
Is there anything you are not a expert on by the way?
https://www.spillers-feeds.com/faqs-on-our-care-line-to-do-with-laminitis/
http://www.thelaminitissite.org/h.html#Haylage

Other people's vets are telling them otherwise.

I haven't claimed to be an expert on anything on this thread, please don't be so rude. I didn't ask for your advice about feeding haylage soaked.
.

 

[shortstuff99]

Is she also definitely fat? Mine can be a bit deceptive because her girth and shoulder are so massive (and her legs look a bit short) that she gives the impression of being larger then she is.

I must be the exception here as I prefer a good doer as it's much cheaper and weirdly I worry less as not always worrying about whether they are eating!

 

[angrybird1]

Other people's vets are telling them otherwise.

I haven't claimed to be an expert on anything on this thread, please don't be so rude. I didn't ask for your advice about feeding haylage soaked.
.

well you did really, you are asking for advice on weight loss are you not.?

 

[Sandstone1]

Other people's vets are telling them otherwise.

I haven't claimed to be an expert on anything on this thread, please don't be so rude. I didn't ask for your advice about feeding haylage soaked.
.

You are hilarious.

 

[Sandstone1]

Is she also definitely fat? Mine can be a bit deceptive because her girth and shoulder are so massive (and her legs look a bit short) that she gives the impression of being larger then she is.

I must be the exception here as I prefer a good doer as it's much cheaper and weirdly I worry less as not always worrying about whether they are eating!

Maybe you have not had a laminitic?

 

[Sandstone1]

A lot of people have been saying that about the Laminitis site for years! There used to be loads of bags of food with their logo on, that they were paid for, which people couldn't feed to their lami horses.

And personally I wouldn't trust a Spillers spokesman on feeding horses further than I could throw a bag of their food.

These things are said once by someone and get repeated round all sorts of sites. I've seen no evidence at all that soaking haylage and feeding it immediately causes any harm whatsoever.

.

Ok, carry on. Have it your way.

 

[shortstuff99]

Maybe you have not had a laminitic?

I have had actually, one who was EMS lami and one Cushings Lami and 2 further good doers and 1 poor doer. The poor doer was the most stressful of the lot by miles! When you know the routine for keeping a lami it's pretty cheap and easy to follow. When you have a horse that wont eat anything and won't put weight on can be a real nightmare.

 

[Sandstone1]

I have had actually, one who was EMS lami and one Cushings Lami and 2 further good doers and 1 poor doer. The poor doer was the most stressful of the lot by miles! When you know the routine for keeping a lami it's pretty cheap and easy to follow. When you have a horse that wont eat anything and won't put weight on can be a real nightmare.

Ive had both too and dont think any of them are easy.

 

[ycbm]

I have had actually, one who was EMS lami and one Cushings Lami and 2 further good doers and 1 poor doer. The poor doer was the most stressful of the lot by miles! When you know the routine for keeping a lami it's pretty cheap and easy to follow. When you have a horse that wont eat anything and won't put weight on can be a real nightmare.

Yes, here was i telling myself that Muffin was so much easier, but ten months ago I was at my wits end trying to keep weight on him! I must remember that next spring.

Deza's looking good, no pulses for days now, and I'm pretty certain she's losing weight slowly. We have a much shorter growing season at this height so that helps. Just need to find a muzzle that doesn't rub, and increase the work a bit now she can cope with it.
.