Mare hates chiro - needs pelvis adjusting...

My osteo very quickly referred me to a sports therapist and podiatrist who all worked in conjunction with each other to get me straight. I do something similar with the horse as it has worked so well for me although I am an extreme case!

When my quirky and difficult horse was initially treated he had been wonky for such a long time muscles had wasted on one leg. I was a bit worried about him being treated as he was fine with me, but when he was frightened he attacked and he meant it. The osteo treated him so quickly that I thought he was just getting him to stand straight. The pony did not have a clue what had happened. I actually said "was that it??" and then he walked away straight and sound and I nearly dropped the lead rope in shock!
 
If you are in Warwickshire I would get in touch with Avonvale Vets. Someone I know had a horse with a LONG history of bucking and problems and in the end it received treatment while under sedation at the vets. It worked.
 
I’d either seek to use a chiropractor or osteopath who is also a vet & so able to sedate or get your vet to come at same time & sedate if needed. I’ve started having Tom Beech / “the osteopathic vet” out to mine who has a few different issues going on that nobody else was really getting to the bottom of. Horse is also a massive drama queen & prone to panicking if he doesn’t like something so having someone able to sedate to treat has been really useful.
 
seriously, why does a thread like this have to be so combative? I too have grave doubts about equine chiros but if people want to use them so be it.

OP you might want to look up Masterson Method as a potential alternative, see if there is a practitioner in your area. It combines all sorts of modalities and has a very gentle approach led by the horse's reactions. I've trained in that and equine bodywork. Personally I'd not put a horse through something they really hated-sedation or not.
 
Neither a chiropracter nor an Osteopath is permitted to work on a horse without veterinary permission. If your horse is needing 'adjustment' in its pelvis, I would be asking (and so will your vet) what is causing the pelvis to require 'adjustment' and treating that prior to making said 'adjustment' otherwise the problem will continue to return.
 
sport horse said:
Neither a chiropracter nor an Osteopath is permitted to work on a horse without veterinary permission. If your horse is needing 'adjustment' in its pelvis, I would be asking (and so will your vet) what is causing the pelvis to require 'adjustment' and treating that prior to making said 'adjustment' otherwise the problem will continue to return.
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Just to add to this - An equine chiropractor must be either a vet, or a human chiropractor who has completed a veterinary chiropractic course. Anyone who isn't one of the above is not a chiropractor, and I'd be very suspicious of someone who professes to be one!
 
Auslander said:
She does travel quite a long way on her chiro travels - was up in Malvern recently.
Agree - she's a proper horsewoman!
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I use the same chiro vet as Auslander and she makes significant improvements with all my horses. Highly recommend her.
 
The scientific evidence for efficacy of equine chiropractors is limited and what evidence there is does not show much impact. Try a vet.
 
JanetGeorge said:
Oh dear, would you like me to explain it to you in words of one syllable. I will put the odd word in big letters (sorry - that's 2) to make it clear it is a vital (sorry-2 again) to what I mean. (Is that clear? Just want to help.)
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I’ve never known you be so impolite, I’ve not been rude to you? Fwiw random word capitalisation makes posts quite tricky to read compared to the bold function.
 
My chiropractor vet says that, on reflection, she would have been able to treat some of her former, trickier, patients at Liverpool differently and quite possibly more successfully with chiro techniques rather than the traditional vet techniques that were all she knew at the time.

There are some hard held views on this thread that chiros are all charlatans. My experience is very different to this. My vet chiropractor works in conjunction with my regular vet and other equine professionals to do the best for my horses. She has certainly helped the mare in my avatar, who has multiple veterinary issues.
 
ester said:
I’ve never known you be so impolite, I’ve not been rude to you? Fwiw random word capitalisation makes posts quite tricky to read compared to the bold function.
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I DO tend to lose patience when I am trying to help someone (probably wasting my time) and some twit bothers to pick on the way I emphasize .

And that is rude, IMO. Now are you happy with the way I put the message - I prefer clarity, however it is achieved.
 
JanetGeorge said:
I DO tend to lose patience when I am trying to help someone (probably wasting my time) and some twit bothers to pick on the way I emphasize .

And that is rude, IMO. Now are you happy with the way I put the message - I prefer clarity, however it is achieved.
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no amount of equestrian experience gives you the right to be so rude.
 
JanetGeorge said:
I DO tend to lose patience when I am trying to help someone (probably wasting my time) and some twit bothers to pick on the way I emphasize .

And that is rude, IMO. Now are you happy with the way I put the message - I prefer clarity, however it is achieved.
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Goodness me. I'd always respected you as a poster JG, but this rude rant seems so out of place with your normal measured posts.

In terms of chiropracters..... I had always been a little sceptical, but one of the senior vets at our practice is also a qualified chiropracter. Cassie tweaked her neck by pulling back when she was tied up (mostly my fault as the electric fence was on 3 ft beyond where she was tied up and she reached way over, got shocked and pulled back). She was definitely sore the next couple of days when I rode her so got said vet/chiro out. She did need to sedate Cassie, as madam was having none of it. Did various hands on manipulation, although said she didn't feel she did an awful lot and to check back (from a vets point of view if nothing else). The next time I rode, the problem had been totally sorted. If you need to sedate for treatment OP, then go for it. xx
 
nikicb said:
Goodness me. I'd always respected you as a poster JG, but this rude rant seems so out of place with your normal measured posts.

In terms of chiropracters..... I had always been a little sceptical, but one of the senior vets at our practice is also a qualified chiropracter. Cassie tweaked her neck by pulling back when she was tied up (mostly my fault as the electric fence was on 3 ft beyond where she was tied up and she reached way over, got shocked and pulled back). She was definitely sore the next couple of days when I rode her so got said vet/chiro out. She did need to sedate Cassie, as madam was having none of it. Did various hands on manipulation, although said she didn't feel she did an awful lot and to check back (from a vets point of view if nothing else). The next time I rode, the problem had been totally sorted. If you need to sedate for treatment OP, then go for it. xx
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nikicb - I'm afraid some things can bring out the worst in me when people post just to have a go at someone - over something that is irrelevant. And this was one of them. Noty helped by the fact that chiros use misleading terminology - like 'adjusting a pelvis'. The OP asked for advice - and is able to take it or ignore it. How it's phrased - and whether someones uses capitals or bold to emphasize a point - is really not any other poster's business! You - at least - called the vet first - who happened to be a qualified chiropractor And a wrenched neck should respond to almost ANY form of massage - although I would use a physio for that as none of my vets do it. But when you don't know what the problem is, you start with the vet. I have seen far too many horses wrecked by people who haven't done that NOT to have a rude rant when people waste time criticizing the way the message is given over trivia.

Just to repeat my message: a horse who is unlevel - or crooked - may have one or two of at least a hundred possible problems - and at least 90% of them will NOT be problems that can be fixed by starting with 'adjusting the pelvis'.
 
milliepops said:
The OP has already called the vet and the vet agreed that a chiropractor could be useful.
Therefore the rude rant isn't even relevant to the question posed?
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You obviously only follow threads carelessly, milliepops. At the start of this thread, the OP was asking whether she should get the vet to sedate for the chiro. Several hours later, it was "I have put a call into my vet this afternoon and I'm waiting on a call back to discuss the idea of sedation initially, however I'm open to their ideas. " Now I have once called a vet in just to sedate - but it was so my EDT could remove badly misplaced wolf teeth on the lower jaw (where the risk of haemorrhage is high if a horse objects.) And he was happy to do it after he looked at the problem (and happy to leave the extraction to the EDT - as he'd never seen such a big tooth problem.) The vet is unlikely to have said that a chiropractor 'could be useful' without seeing the horse - after all, how the hell would he know?
 
I literally have no idea why you're so invested in this thread that you'll throw out insults to everyone else on it, but anyway...

JanetGeorge said:
The vet is unlikely to have said that a chiropractor 'could be useful' without seeing the horse - after all, how the hell would he know?
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I'm assuming it's the same vet that has previously seen the horse for lameness work ups and therefore knows the horse quite well...

Sprat said:
I’ve discussed with the vets (who have previously done lameness work ups and back xrays - no issues found, just weakness. This was spring last year) and vet agrees that a Chiro (mctimmoney) session would be beneficial, albeit under sedation so as to reduce any worry on the mare.
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I dont know why people treat different types of therapy like some sort of black art to defraud people.

When I was on the McT-C course there were 2 fully qualified and practicing vets, a qualified human physio and a qualified human osteo along with vet nurses and other educated people.

The vets said there was nothing like this in their training and they found that it left them lacking. Hence researching all further training available and deciding upon that qualification.

The human physio and osteo had both qualified in their fields and went into their degree courses fully expecting to gain the animal degrees afterwards. When they researched what was available to them they didnt think the training was as thorough as McT-C so actively chose that route.

When doing EBW the course was taught by a qualified osteo, there was another osteo and a chiro on the course.

It's not some mumbo jumbo made up to defraud naive owners. Every single therapist needs vets permission before they lay a finger on a horse, veterinary act 1966. Anyone working on any animal without that is breaking the law.

The OP has clearly stated that they've been working in tandem with the vet. Why there is a need to post dismissing the OPs actions and the type of therapy that she is considering is beyond me never mind set about other posters for no reason.

This place is an absolute disgrace at times. Generally people posting for help and/pr opinions are doing so out of desperation to try and help whatever situation they've found themself in. Yet every nuance of what they post is torn to shreds and purposely taken out of context. Then anyone who disagrees is patronised; in this case because they haven't physically been alive long enough to have an equal number of years around horses :rolleyes:
 
Should a vet be telling the owner of a horse with a newly unlevel pelvis, that is bilaterally lame behind*, that he hasn't seen for lameness issues for a year, to call in a non-vet chiro?




*OP says the horse is not lame, just not coming through properly from behind compared to normal. That's lame, I'm afraid, just with something that is affecting both legs equally.
 
I would get Richard Maxwell - he uses a number of techniques and the horses appear to enjoy it. If its not a job for him he will tell you but would need to see the horse
 
I don't think that the horse is bilaterally lame behind since OP says the issue is showing in canter trans on one rein only, (not unusual in a horse that is weak and crooked) but if vet agrees that sedation would be a good idea in order for the horse to have this treatment then presumably they would be expecting to attend in order to prescribe or administer it.

Alternatively the OP has been given suggestions for various vet chiros who would be able to assess the degree of lameness or otherwise before treating. Sounds like the OP is on board with getting the right person for their horse, I don't think there's a need to second guess everything.
 
mandyroberts said:
I would get Richard Maxwell - he uses a number of techniques and the horses appear to enjoy it. If its not a job for him he will tell you but would need to see the horse
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RM treated Bisto on a number of occasions when I was on intensive dressage courses at AM Dressage. He was quite remarkable and Bisto who was naturally a tense reactive horse was like putty in his hands. The more he did the more relaxed B became. Unusually, he is quite happy for the horse to be ridden after treatment, no day off, walking in straight lines malarkey. I could always feel a huge difference in the suppleness and Max was always spot on in being able to tell me what issues I was having in my ridden work. A very talented man.
 
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RM treats horses using the Masterson Method.

Jim Masterson's book is very good and easy to follow for any owners wanting to try it themselves. The movements are non-invasive and in some instances you don't even have to touch the horse to perform the move (waits for some users to have an epic meltdown). I've done bit from the book myself with my horses and they like it.

RM holds clinics at various yards up and down the UK that atent advertised. Its generally arranged via his wife and certain yards in each area. If anyone interested in using RM emails then his wife can give out contact names for your area to find what yard to go to for bodywork and/or lessons.

Sorry for being hugely off topic OP.

I dont see anything wrong with your plan to get a chiro and clearly your vet is involved. I personally wouldn't sedate as I do want the horse to be able to react to what is going on and to be able to be "read" which won't be possible if sedated.
 
A MM practitioner will do more advanced movements that are not in the book-its a mix of modalities and a very useful tool (I don't do woo) but I would also recommend it to owners to have a go, Jim Masterson is a proper horseman much like RM.
 
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