Martin Clunes: Heavy Horse Power

And those going on about the dog - ever wondered why so many of you go into meltdown if a dog so much as looks at your horse? ?

Because you expect it to be a problem. And don't just tell your horse to 'get on with it'.
 
I really liked the show and I think its great that the trainers are proper horse people where even yakky jacky russell was accepted as normal. Amazed it didnt get stepped on but I liked it that because they werent bothered that the horses were fine too. Instead of fluffy training its good training and the horses are expected to work.

Only irritating is Martin you laugh all the time and I mean all the time that even the horses stop to listen and are puzzled. But good luck he seems to have plenty of money and time to enjoy his much loved horses. I think it was a good snap shot of what jobs horses do in other places. Brilliant programme. Martin has tried hard to learn and he clearly loves the animals.
 
I did enjoy the program, the horses were beautiful and looked well cared for. MC was very fond of his horses which was nice to see though I don't think he is a natural horseman. However the moment when the stallion ran into the mare was scary and could have ended up in a nasty accident.

I thought the training methods were not very subtle but considering the horses were going to be going back to MC who is a novice driver they need to be very tolerant and maybe used to a less subtle way of being handled for their own benefit. MC is President of the BHS and I sure he would have had advice from them about who to go to for the training of the horses and also it would look really bad if he associated with someone who was not safe or did not treat the horses well.
 
amymay said:
And those going on about the dog - ever wondered why so many of you go into meltdown if a dog so much as looks at your horse? ?

Because you expect it to be a problem. And don't just tell your horse to 'get on with it'.
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I don't go into meltdown amymay, I just don't like the yappy little things :)
 
Patchworkpony said:
Norfolk Pie - I totally agree. A really ignorant presentation of training young horses. This is why so many horses are spoilt these days before they have even begun. Of course if it's 'on the telly' it must be the right way to do it. My welsh cob was on the TV years ago on a programme about osteopathy for horses and I hated the way the presenters tried to twist everything - anything to make a programme more lively for the public. I do love MC but I think he took some big chances without realising the potential for an accident. The proper driving world is hot on safety and method - I don't think this 'trainer' would quite cut the mustard.

There is too much ignorance these days because people take short cuts and want instant results. Horses are living creatures that need time to adjust to strange demands from 'alien' beings. I do wonder how that trainer would like to have a load of strange stuff dumped on his back and then be asked to run round in a circle while being shouted at. Horses need time and patience to get the best out of them. So many people forget that a horse NEVER forgets an experience - good or bad!
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"The proper driving world" LMAO and what might that be? The chap comes from generations of farmers and drivers!
 
Well said amymay. There is a world of difference between horse people and people who keep horses.
There are so many good horses ruined these days. Not by people like Robert Samson but by the fluffy brigade that insist on treating a horse like a big dog, then wonder why it walks all over them and ends up putting itself and people around it in danger. If it has no confident leadership it starts to make it's own decisions, and boy when that happens you really are in trouble.
I've read some rubbish on this forum but this thread really takes the prize for idiots talking tosh.
No wonder there are so many confused, difficult horses with behaviour problems ending up with the meatman. Anything trained by people like Robert will always have a useful life and be in demand.
I don't know whether to laugh at this nonsense being spouted or cry at the fate of the poor horses in the hands of those who are so sure that fluffing and fussing is the right way and 20 minutes pottering round the school is work.
 
I can't imagine Mr Samson feeding his horses into laminitis because, "They won't eat it unless it's got molasses in it...." :D
 
Brilliant program, and so nice to see someone who has the guts to say he needs help, unlike some of the people sometimes seen on H&H who are obviously complete experts!
 
I enjoyed it - guys take it for what it is - entertainment. I cannot comment on the methods used as know nothing about breaking heavy working horses, but his horses looked happy and well cared for. I will admit to being completely smitten by that stallion, Axel, and he did live up to his name, the dirty little beggar. Also, I would love to go riding in the sea on those huge horses, but my short legs wouldnt get across those backs.

It was a very nice entertaining programme and I have to admit I am now a Clydesdale lover, so lets just leave it like that.
 
Fii said:
The chap comes from generations of farmers and drivers!
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There were hundreds of generations of folk who thought the sun went around the earth - I don't think they were right - do you? How does your evidential factoid look now?

This is not to say they or you are ignorant - just misguided. Anyone, given a reasonable amount of confidence, can get a basically timid animal such as a horse and bully it, frighten it and wear it down until it does what you want - if you get one that still won't you could always throw you hands in the air and say "bl**dy thing won't listen" and shoot it. ( I know of cases.)

When I find I make myself understand no matter how loud I shout - I always consider that I might be using the WRONG LANGUAGE!
 
ribbons said:
There are so many good horses ruined these days. Not by people like Robert Samson but by the fluffy brigade that insist on treating a horse like a big dog, then wonder why it walks all over them and ends up putting itself and people around it in danger. If it has no confident leadership it starts to make it's own decisions, and boy when that happens you really are in trouble.
I've read some rubbish on this forum but this thread really takes the prize for idiots talking tosh.
No wonder there are so many confused, difficult horses with behaviour problems ending up with the meatman. Anything trained by people like Robert will always have a useful life and be in demand.
I don't know whether to laugh at this nonsense being spouted or cry at the fate of the poor horses in the hands of those who are so sure that fluffing and fussing is the right way and 20 minutes pottering round the school is work.
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I can list you...ooh I don't know, 20, straight off the top of my head, from professionals who have been totally screwed up by their "good methods"

The being backed 4yo's tied down in side reins in their stables til their mouths bleed? Seen that more times than I care to remember. I didn't like I when I was 16 - now I question people just how it's developing muscle tone - and yet the "respected trainer" can never actually tell me....
The novice event horses which won't come out the start box because they've been over faced?
The 1.30 SJ that won't go in the ring without a lunge whip behind it?
The pony club pony kept on a Pro's yard that "Jumps anything" but is so tight and tense and inverted I should think kissing spines beckon in the next 6 months
The show horse that was quite literally pinned against a wall by 4 people in order that they could clip it?
Great training techniques at work there.

A someone said earlier, please do not assume, just because some people observe a horse and give it consideration that we are all the idiotic owners who cause problems. Yes, of-course there are some of them, far too many in fact. But you know what - there's just as many problems caused by the "sort it out" brigade. And have a look at where all the "novice numpties" buy those horses. The pros don't mind selling to them, do they, or rushing a horse through the grades to get a nice price tag.

Here's an idea - lets look at the first proper horseman - Xenophon maybe? Can't get much more traditional hormanship than that. Now where is that bit about "make it get on with it......"
 
amymay said:
And for those banging on about feet, H&S, etc. Come on. Some people's lives are far removed from ours. Most of us know how to 'play' horses - but that's about it. These people 'do' horses for a living, and I just love the arm chair critics on here thinking they know better. ........
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In a nutshell... and can someone explain to me why so many of the posters are adamant that the horses were harnessed, lunged, put to and driven on the same day. Some bright spark commented that the trainer was wearing the same clothes so it must have been the same day ! I wear my yard clothes day after day until they stand up by themselves and I smell like a skunk.

The programme was edited and anyone of you that think those horses were rushed, knocked about or frightened are way off the mark. Those horses had weeks of handling before they travelled to Hampshire to prepare them for the breaking to harness. They were broken by a man with decades of experience with heavy horses and now the horses are home, they will be continuing their education in the hands of experts. Martin Clunes has the means, the want and the facilities to ensure those horses are kept and worked properly.

The programme was just a pleasant, easy to watch hour of TV that was bound to attract critical comments from some horse lovers, just the same as parelli/natural horsemanship/clinton anderson programmes attract critical reviews.

It is wonderful there are still horsemen breeding, breaking and working our native heavy horses. No doubt some people on here think they could do it better, maybe they could, and everyone is entitled to a view, but I do wonder how many of you have actually had anything to do with a pure or half breed heavy horse. I can assure you if you frighten or mis-handle one it will not go round you on as it leaves your company, they are not 'my little pony'.
 
1stclassalan said:
There were hundreds of generations of folk who thought the sun went around the earth - I don't think they were right - do you? How does your evidential factoid look now?

This is not to say they or you are ignorant - just misguided. Anyone, given a reasonable amount of confidence, can get a basically timid animal such as a horse and bully it, frighten it and wear it down until it does what you want - if you get one that still won't you could always throw you hands in the air and say "bl**dy thing won't listen" and shoot it. ( I know of cases.)

When I find I make myself understand no matter how loud I shout - I always consider that I might be using the WRONG LANGUAGE!
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I think you maybe right, you are probably using the wrong language, i have never read a word that you have typed that i understood!
You fill your posts with flowery spiel i suspect to confuse the reader , to the point that most of the time i think, Meh, i cant be bothered to untangle it all!
My factoid as you put it, looks the same as when i wrote it, the truth, not misguided at all! :)
 
Norfolk pie, you are talking the other end of the scale. Those sort of trainers are certainly not horse people. Just bullies.
Robert Samson has total respect for his horses and expects it, and gets it from them.
He has no need to tie a horse down until it's mouth bleeds. His methods are firm and fair.
Arguments like you have presented have no relevance whatsoever to correct training, and would be as abhorrent to him as they are to us.
 
Fii, ha ha ha. You have just summed up exactly what I think about 1stclass something or others posts.
Brilliant description. Still chuckling.
 
ribbons said:
I've read some rubbish on this forum but this thread really takes the prize for idiots talking tosh.
No wonder there are so many confused, difficult horses with behaviour problems ending up with the meatman. Anything trained by people like Robert will always have a useful life and be in demand.
I don't know whether to laugh at this nonsense being spouted or cry at the fate of the poor horses in the hands of those who are so sure that fluffing and fussing is the right way and 20 minutes pottering round the school is work.
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I'm probably one of those 'idiots' you so eloquently refer to (rea idiot: somebody with a different opinion to you).

For what it's worth, in my opinion I don't 'fluff and fuss' or spend 20 minutes 'pottering'- my point is really the safety issues. What if that dog had been kicked to death? Basic commonsense- dog yapping, get it on a lead- horse can still get accustomed to it, but it's not going to kill a dog by standing on it- it's basic safety. Horse meets dog out hacking, off lead, that's unavoidable- having one running round a horse being lunged is preventable.

I didn't say his methods didn't work,just that it's not how I would have done them- basic safety needs to be respected, whoever you are, no matter how many horses you've applied the method to, and it's worked for, there's always the chance something can go wrong. Why up the chances by not wearing a hat, or tying a mare up, or letting MC drive in that context?

That's my point- not an idiot talking 'tosh,' or fluffy-bunny don't shout at the horsey, just that it's not safe. For that reason, and the seeming speed it's done, as we were shown, then for me, it isn't what I'd choose. That doesn't make me an idiot, just somebody on a forum with a different opinion to you- no need to be rude about it and dismiss people as 'idiots' and assume that our horses are 'suffering.' :rolleyes:
 
In that case, fair enough. But I'm afraid I thought he came across exactly as one of those bullies. I can see no need to hang off a horses mouth while lunging in the middle of a field with something chasing at its heels, or to shout and holla loudly. I thought the incident with the stallion and mare on the yard - idiotic and unprofessional - if that had been one of the novice numpties, wouldnt everyone have been saying how ridiculous they were? In fairness, although I didn't particularly like the hitching to the stallon and go through the river on its first drive (as portrayed) I agree he was brilliantly positive and quick to praise :) see, I can be nice, I'm just fed up of this attitude of anyone who gets paid must know what they're doing

(I don't mean that bit about being quick to praise to sound as patronising as it probably does either :D )
 
Interesting programme, MC is well suited for horsey progs and I would like to see a follow up with more working breeds abroad doing different jobs..Im sure there's lots of interesting TV there. Id love to see some more pretty obscure-to us in the UK at least- heavy breeds.

My one sharp intake of breath came with the shot of the barbed wire...I learned from a pretty rough and ready nagsman and one of his mantras was Theres only one thing worse than barbed wire and thats slack barbed wire. Mind you another one of his gems was - There should be a killing day one day a week for women. He wasnt exactly PC :)
 
But the point is, horseatemymoney, that dogs aren't always on a lead. Nor do they need to be. That dog wasn't going to get kicked, let alone killed. ..
 
amymay said:
But the point is, horseatemymoney, that dogs aren't always on a lead. Nor do they need to be. That dog wasn't going to get kicked, let alone killed. ..
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Exactly, they're not always on leads- but that's beyond your control. If you're out hacking, and a dog runs out and gets kicked, or stood on, by your horse then it's an accident. You can do what you can to get your horse used to it, at home, but where the horse can't do any damage to the dog. It looked to me like it was running near the horse's legs, a young horse doing something quite new- what's to say it might not accidentally stand on the dog? It just doesn't give a good example- the experienced man might be ok to control a young heavy horse with a dog round its legs, but what about other people who can't, but let their dogs round horse's legs?

How many people (on here too) complain about dogs at big events like Badminton barking, getting loose and chasing horses? Why is this any different? I just saw it as adding another issue that didn't need to be there. Again, my opinion, it's just something that I don't like to see.
 
Would just like to say....

Both Ronnie and Bruce have now been backed to ride by the guys at Harbridge Stud and both are being ridden away and worked together as a driving pair.

The training was done professionally and a huge amount of work was done off camera ie road work in the cart etc etc, Martin Clunes was also given many lessons on how to drive etc etc during their training with experienced driving horses and not so experienced.

Also with regards to the JRT, the horses had blinkers on so it wouldnt of mattered if they were being chased by a elephant the horse would not of noticed as the dog didnt actually bit the horse it was just running behind it.

If anyone is interested in seeing more videos of Ronnie, Bruce or Axl let me know and i will post them :)
 
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