Martin Clunes: Heavy Horse Power

[irishdraft]

I found the programme really interesting, i dont know anything about working heavy horses and initially did think robert Sampson seemed a bit rough and full of himself but it became apparent he was the right man for the job. An earlier poster said he hunted Axel the percheron stallion and I remembered a great photo in horse and hound of robert jumping Axel out hunting.

 

[onemorehorse]

My goodness, what a lot of experts on breaking we have here!

Anyone actually ever worked with heavy horses? Or broken a horse to drive?

Um, yes shires and yes assisted with a few. Where I worked we also bred and brought on young shires.

 

[EllenJay]

This.
Personally I thought he came across as ignorant and arrogant - what was his comment early on "I can get a tune out of anything but ...(something to the effect of).... he'll walk all over you if I don't train you"

And what was wrong with that comment. Horses, (especially clever ones) know exactly what they can get away with, and therefore if the MC is not correctly "trained", 2 big heavy horses would run rings around him.

 

[Patchworkpony]

Norfolk Pie - I totally agree. A really ignorant presentation of training young horses. This is why so many horses are spoilt these days before they have even begun. Of course if it's 'on the telly' it must be the right way to do it. My welsh cob was on the TV years ago on a programme about osteopathy for horses and I hated the way the presenters tried to twist everything - anything to make a programme more lively for the public. I do love MC but I think he took some big chances without realising the potential for an accident. The proper driving world is hot on safety and method - I don't think this 'trainer' would quite cut the mustard.

There is too much ignorance these days because people take short cuts and want instant results. Horses are living creatures that need time to adjust to strange demands from 'alien' beings. I do wonder how that trainer would like to have a load of strange stuff dumped on his back and then be asked to run round in a circle while being shouted at. Horses need time and patience to get the best out of them. So many people forget that a horse NEVER forgets an experience - good or bad!

 

[redriverrock]

Those horses are clearly deeply traumatised and neglected...Im phoning the RSPCA

 

[onemorehorse]

Norfolk Pie - I totally agree. A really ignorant presentation of training young horses. This is why so many horses are spoilt these days before they have even begun. Of course if it's 'on the telly' it must be the right way to do it. My welsh cob was on the TV years ago on a programme about osteopathy for horses and I hated the way the presenters tried to twist everything - anything to make a programme more lively for the public. I do love MC but I think he took some big chances without realising the potential for an accident. The proper driving world is hot on safety and method - I don't think this 'trainer' would quite cut the mustard.

There is too much ignorance these days because people take short cuts and want instant results. Horses are living creatures that need time to adjust to strange demands from 'alien' beings. I do wonder how that trainer would like to have a load of strange stuff dumped on his back and then be asked to run round in a circle while being shouted at. Horses need time and patience to get the best out of them. So many people forget that a horse NEVER forgets an experience - good or bad!

This

 

[Hot2Trot]

I enjoyed it apart from it was very "bitty". Here I am in the States, now i'm in Scotland, now i'm in the States again, now i'm in France. I said to my husband - he gets around a bit doesnt he! I think it would have worked better as a series with more focus on each place but i guess they dont have the budget or viewers for that. Very interesting though. Even hubby was interested and he's totally non-horsey.

Got my dust buster ready for the boy tomorrow too.

 

[Magicmillbrook]

Loved the program and though RS attitude was marvelous, clearly a man who knows his stuff.

Axel was such a dude, go the Suffolk pair, but what I would realy love is the Comtois.

 

[Penny Less]

I loved the programme. Perhaps it flicked from item to item so the non horsey watchers dont get too bored.( I notice this happens a lot on American made programmes too ) I did wonder why they used 8 horses to plough the field on the Amish segment though ? Im sure one could have done it ! The thing that spoiled it for me was the damned adverts

 

[Fools Motto]

Liked the program very much. Didn't didn't find anything wrong with it, just maybe the Armish horses' feet needed a trim, but that isn't the end of the world!

 

[weebarney]

In my opinion those two horses of MC's have had a fair bit of ground work done with them, before they apparently just plonked the harnesses on. One had already won a lot of prizes as a foal and I am sure you don't just drag them out the field to do that! They also appeared to have traveled very well in the lorry (and unloaded very calmly) and at one point MC was having a good rub of its back and gave one a pat on the back - surely youngsters without any training wouldn't cope with that??

I would say thats extremely likely, He's not short of a few quid so he's probably got grooms and the horses getting worked on for weeks prior to going away.

 

[Magicmillbrook]

Didn't you love the way RS summed them up at the end. One will get you out of trouble but the other will get you into it!

 

[cambrica]

Didn't you love the way RS summed them up at the end. One will get you out of trouble but the other will get you into it!

 

[AdorableAlice]

What a lovely programme. I have just watched it this afternoon, after reading all the comments on the thread.

There is a vast difference between the heavy breeds and the riding horses/TB/warmbloods that some of the posters would be owning/handling and I think some of the ridiculous comments that have been made are based on trying to compare the heavies with riding horses.

Those 2 heavies would have had plenty of handling long before being put to, and the programme obviously edited out the hours of basic work. Personally I wish I could see the work done before the camera was turned on, because that would have been the really useful and informative bit. The camera only showed the end result of the true nagsman's work.

All horses should be steady to dogs, especially horses in harness. I never ever protect my young horses from loose dogs around them with the exception of a nursing foal. I learnt the hard way after a horse kicked and killed a hound some years ago after being surprised by the hound popping out of the covert directly behind him.

Everyone to their own, but I think I may just have found the man to start my feral carthorse next year.

 

[Oberon]

Eveyrone to their own, but I think I may just have found the man to start my feral carthorse next year.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Can someone break the news to Ted please and explain to him he will need to remain vertical and awake rather than horizontal and comatose.

 

[Spring Feather]

I didn't see the programme as I'm in another country but it sounds like to me that many on here really aren't that familiar with handling heavy work horses. Work horses aren't the same as hobby type carriage horses, or even cart horses. Where I live there are a great many people who use work horses to work their farms. We have quite a few amish and mennonite farms in the area and all the field work is done by horses. The machinery these horses have to pull are seriously dangerous pieces of kit and there's no way they could have these huge ton hunks of horseflesh being anything other than obedient and bombproof to anything that goes on around them. Real work horses are so rare to see in the UK so I do understand some of the comments people have made. Over here they are not rare, they are relatively commonplace on farms in certain areas. Amish and mennonites are notoriously hard on their horses and they do start them from young. I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing per se, it just is what it is and you NEVER hear of any horse related accidents on these farms so they must be doing something right. This is a rural and pretty horse orientated area and we do hear about regular people having horse accidents often.

One problem that I do see a lot of though, is there are so many mennonite/amish trained/owned horses that go through the auctions over here and many soft hearted people want to 'rescue' them, so they do. They get these great beasties home and are NOT up to dealing with them, or they pander to them and think 'aw they've had such a rough life, I'll be kind and gentle to them'. Ye well that is normally where the problems begin. These horses, like all horses, are very quick to cotton on to these inexperienced new owners and within no time the horse will be walking all over them ... and often their fences, their stables, anything that gets in their way tbh. Then the horses end up in rescue centres to await the next 'rescue' owner. It's a bit of a sorry site to see so many of these horses (typically Percherons or Belgian drafts) taking advantage of new owners and ending up on a spiral downwards, getting closer to the meatman with every turn of owner.

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

 

[Norfolk Pie]

And what was wrong with that comment. Horses, (especially clever ones) know exactly what they can get away with, and therefore if the MC is not correctly "trained", 2 big heavy horses would run rings around him.

What's wrong with that? Only that in my opinion it came across as arrogant. IMHO most people who come across as arrogant (and I'm basing my opinion on his statement "I can get a tune out of anything" ) aren't particularly open to learning. He's probably done his way, with success, for a number of years. But he may choose not to learn anything new, such as a greater understanding of the horses development, or learning techniques. Personally, I don't consider someone who allows a young horse to be unsettled by a dog, on its first attempt on the lunge, to be a particularly great "nagsman". I'd rather have someone who had a little more consideration and feel for a horse - not in a bunny hugging lets all stroke our ponies and feed them carrots kind of way, but just allowing a horse to feel confident. I'm currently working with a big, flumpy cob who has spent 5 years being told to " get on with it" when in fact his basics were so rushed and poor he has no idea what he's doing with his legs in walk, let alone canter. He's a good example of the horses that don't cope, and are a common by product from the many arrogant "professionals" who don't actually give a stuff, or ever bother to question if there are better methods available. There is a horse "complying" with a well known event rider who I'm convinced has severe behavioural problems because of kissing spines ( the horse, not the rider )but he bashes him harder than I did, so the lucky horse now gets to keep going instead of being shot, which I feel would have been a great deal kinder. As I said, tired of seeing it

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You need to know some French to communicate effectively with hers because they are started in France which also makes them initially confused when they are asked to work on the "wrong" side of the road!

I have a German-bred Westphalian Draft (Kalt blut) mare, who was imported here aged about 12 (not by me). She likes to walk in the middle of the road, which always makes me wonder if it's because she was trained to go on the 'wrong' side of the road. She understand English very well though! I hve no proof but I believe that she hs been used as broodmare and driven before she came here. She is very aware of traffic and how to behave on the road.
The 'sea-horses' looked very much like my mare - beautiful!

 

[1stclassalan]

Martin Clunes is genuinely besotted with his horses and I could watch him with them all day - but my enjoyment of the programme ends there - rarely have I seen such a display of unconcerned, this-the-way-we-do-things, laissez faire to darn right dangerous stuff trotted out to the general public for chrissakes - it's not as if it was made for limited release for peer review - but bl**dy armchair entertainment!

There were heavy horses being tied to rings with rope that would hold the Queen Mary, then 2 year old were boxed up ( good to see the CCTV ) and taken to a so called expert breaker / trainer / worldly sage who seemed to live amongst the largest gathering of dangers to horses I've ever seen on telly.

I'm sorry for all the people above who think he is a cross between Jesus of Nazareth and Mother Teresa and will try to turn my words against me but let me remind them that one does not need to be carpenter and joiner to know whether a table and chairs is fit for the purpose!

You do NOT harness up a youngster to a stallion without a lot more preparation - then when driving a STALLION through a god awful untidy yard - you don't have a mare tied up
in paddling range! Mein Gott! There was almost a broken leg there!!!

I'm not going to list anymore because everyone saw them plain as day - I find it utterly gobsmacking that it was produced like this and not edited better - either that or they must be PROUD of it!

In my younger days, I saw horses literally broken ( just like Monty Roberts is supposed to have done, bagging and roping) and despite being told that it was the best way for all concerned - I knew damn well it wasn't.

 

[devonlass]

I'm suprised this hasn't been mentioned but I was upset with the state of the Amish horses feet Clearly well valued horses but their feet needed attention.

Have to say if there was one thing i would have said in a negative light it would have been this issue.None of them had great feet,most were ok but a couple were pretty appalling

Having said that i am a barefoot person so inclined to nit pick and get evangelical over feet

Also hard to tell from a brief clip on the tv,maybe there was a reason or they didn't look that bad in the flesh so to speak.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

Before I get shot down, this is my opinion, I'm not saying I'm an expert, know better than anybody else, or am picking faults because it's fun. In my opinion, I would not send my horse to the trainer because I didn't like his attitude- that's not to say it doesn't work, it's to say I, personally, didn't like how he was portrayed. I can only base my judgement on what I saw, but I felt it was too quick- again, for what I would want for my horse- not saying it's wrong, but it's not for me. I thought running into the mare, whilst wearing no hat and having MC driving who was inexperienced, was just taking unnecessary risks- similarily, taking the young horse through the water straight away is not what I would want done with mine. I think each horse is different and in my opnion, my sensitive horse wouldn't cope with such an approach-yes, the horses responded, nothing went wrong and there's clearly no cruelty involved, it's just not what I would want for mine.

 

[Kikke]

My OH owns a "sea horse " aka turnip van der schaakhoeve our lovely Belgian draft.
He is great, gentle sweet really really wants to work and a bit daft
He is only 5 but leans very quickly and just wants to please.
Funny to say as my hubby started ground work to start him doing field work over the next year and even though he has never done anything like that he knows what to do straight away. My OH says it's like he knows what he was "made" for

I must admit I do not see what all the fuss is about. But I think it was great to see the heavies portrait!!

 

[tallyho!]

Where's that horses tail?

 

[Patchworkpony]

1stclassalan and horsesatemymoney I couldn't have put it better myself. Thank goodness there are actually people on this forum who can recognise an arrogant idiot when they see one - and I'm not referring to MC! Driving is probably the most dangerous horse activity there is since once a harness horse bolts with there is nothing you can do (think of that poor woman who was killed at an event as a result of total stupidity - the bridle was removed while the horse was still hitched). The most important part of driving is mutual trust and steady obedience so how can MC (without a hat) be encouraged by that 'show off' to drive young barely broken horses when, as a rank novice, he wouldn't have a clue what to do in an emergency.

 

[Kikke]

Where's that horses tail?

Typical for Belgian drafts. Any Belgian draft going to a grading in Belgium and holland will have a docked tail.
These days it is not allowed in those countries to have tails docked unless there is a medical reason........ Well 95% of the horses come with a medical reason.
Agree with it or not it's a tradition that has not been broken yet.
We got him this way, must admit being dutch I am used to seeing them like this but would have preferred a tail.

 

[Spring Feather]

Typical for Belgian drafts. Any Belgian draft going to a grading in Belgium and holland will have a docked tail.
These days it is not allowed in those countries to have tails docked unless there is a medical reason........ Well 95% of the horses come with a medical reason.
Agree with it or not it's a tradition that has not been broken yet.
We got him this way, must admit being dutch I am used to seeing them like this but would have preferred a tail.

It's still legal in my country. I'm used to seeing them docked too.

 

[fburton]

I didn't like "It is a case of dominance, 'cause it's the only thing they understand."

Winced at the barbed wire, and the lackadaisical way the stallion was allowed to get near to the mare.

However, I enjoyed the programme overall.

 

[AmyMay]

What a wonderful programme. Its wonderful to see a person relatively new to horses having such a natural affinity with them, and to be so obviously in love his boys.

I actually found it really moving.

 

[AmyMay]

And for those banging on about feet, H&S, etc. Come on. Some people's lives are far removed from ours. Most of us know how to 'play' horses - but that's about it. These people 'do' horses for a living, and I just love the arm chair critics on here thinking they know better. ........