meat man

[beeswax]

where i work the vet still uses somulose and i can honestly say i have never seen a bad end yet, these other vets are obviously not injecting enough of the other drugs mentioned for these bad ends to be taking place. If i use LI when my horse goes, i will make sure i ask the vet before hand that they have the correct quantities to ensure it is quick. Just to change the subject quickly i sold other horse filly recently young vet came out to do the vetting, after finding nothing wrong could only pick out under elbow what was mud, vet said it was a wart, and by lifting her tail told the potential owner that she would have problems getting in foal if she ever wanted to breed from her. i told vet where i work and he said she vet must have xray eyes. Too many young inexperienced ones about imo.

 

[glitterbug]

It does not sit easy with me either. Bottom of the scrap heap dealers buying up cheap ponies at auctions and selling for a respectable profit to meat man? It would not be something I would be proud of. Saviours? No they are business people but on a very different level from most.

It doesn't sit easy with me either but then what sits worse is the poor ponies being shoved from pillar ro post neglected badly treated and ending up in unknowledable homes thats even less 'horse lovers'

 

[Sadiemay]

Dear Jemima_too,

Absolutely correct. I couldnt agree with you more. When it comes down to it, I will do whatever is best for my girl at that exact time, her well being and quick end to suffering comes way over and above before my own preferences. I would rather live knowing I let her go quickly than prolonging her suffering just because I didnt want her PTS using the gun even if that was deemed the best way right there, right then.

I have always tried to do the right thing for her and put her needs as top priority and that wont change in her final moments. It will be all about her and what is best.

So if the injection is deemed not suitable for whatever reason then I will authorise the gun. The views I have expressed are based on what I hope and pray will turn out to be my ideal scenario and then my choice is the injection. However I have to realistic that this may not be possible for whatever reason.

Sadiemay

 

[cronkmooar]

When I was woking in an equine hospital admitedly nearly 10 years ago, there was one injection of Somulose to euthanase a horse but I have been reading of two separate injections, one to knock the horse out and then a second to stop the heart/breathing etc. Is this a new thing does anyone know?

I have to say that I was also finding this interesting/confusing too.

I had my old mare PTS in April this year due to a broken leg and I specifically asked my vet about the drug being used because a) it was years since I had had one PTS and b) because there was a story going round that he had pts a horse by injection late one night and the next morning it was stood grazing in the field!

The vet confirmed that this was indeed a true story and did quickly explain why this had happened but the names of the drugs etc have not stayed in my mind due to the circumstances as I am sure you will understand.

From what I can remember the drug that had been used to stop the heart had been used after a specific sedative and when the heart stopping drug was first used with this sedative it was not known that in some cases the heart did not fully stop.

He assured me that the drug that was being given to my horse would not allow this to happen (it didn't - rigor did set in - I checked because even after assurance I was still worried about her being buried alive so to speak)

The drug she was given was pink, she had only one injection and was not sedated - she was gone very very quickly and unconcious immediately - I have a feeling it might have been the same drug they give humans for a GA???

Was it Mavis007 that said she was a vet? If so I would be really interested to know about different drug combinations and why what is used or are there any other vets in the house that might be so kind to answer this?

 

[missyme10]

What do you suppose would happen to them if they weren't bought for meat?

Not overly sure who you are asking this question to?
So I'll just answer anyway

I think at present there is such an awful excess of equines in the UK that are unwanted, there is no other realistic alternative, well controlling breeding in the future would be - but lets face it that is never going to happen.

The lucky few get good homes, the next luckiest go to potters, then there are those who suffer fates worse than death, a bullet isn't the worst that can happen to a horse.

Its the bull ***** saviours of these poor poor unwanted horses that have a tidy sum in their pockets that grate me

Saddly until breeding is controlled and we crawl out of this recession, an awful lot of youngsters or sane and sound horses are gonna suffer the same fate, as a genuine horse lover that just doesn't sit right with me - but there doesn't seem to be an alternative viable solution right now

 

[missyme10]

It doesn't sit easy with me either but then what sits worse is the poor ponies being shoved from pillar ro post neglected badly treated and ending up in unknowledable homes thats even less 'horse lovers'

The initial point is these people claim to be horse lovers and are "saving them" they are not in my opinion.
They do it to make money, end of

 

[*hic*]

Dear Jemima_too,

Absolutely correct. I couldnt agree with you more. When it comes down to it, I will do whatever is best for my girl at that exact time, her well being and quick end to suffering comes way over and above before my own preferences. I would rather live knowing I let her go quickly than prolonging her suffering just because I didnt want her PTS using the gun even if that was deemed the best way right there, right then.

I have always tried to do the right thing for her and put her needs as top priority and that wont change in her final moments. It will be all about her and what is best.

So if the injection is deemed not suitable for whatever reason then I will authorise the gun. The views I have expressed are based on what I hope and pray will turn out to be my ideal scenario and then my choice is the injection. However I have to realistic that this may not be possible for whatever reason.

Sadiemay

That's all that any horse would ask of us - that we make the decision they can't and that we make sure that the person who does the deed does the best job possible. As I said, I hope your ideal scenario pans out - but not for many years.

My ideal scenario for one of mine who finds it difficult to get up from lying down is that I will take him to the hunt because he enjoys a trip out, they will turn him out and when he has laid down and had a good roll about he will have a feed bowl brought to him - he loves to eat lying down. When he puts his head in the bowl that will be the end for him. My fingers are crossed that he can go like this - I will be in pieces but I can't think of a better way for him. I think the hunt thought I was nuts but they are happy to do that if I think that's what's good for him.

 

[Zebedee]

The initial point is these people claim to be horse lovers and are "saving them" they are not in my opinion.
They do it to make money, end of

Ah. I get it now. For example a user on here brought some very poor looking sucker foals at a market. In spite of her best efforts none of them were ever going to recover from their pooor start in life, so they were taken to Potters, after about three months of the best possible care.
I expect a few quid did change hands, & I also expect those few quid were reinvested in he welbeing of other horses and ponies so I can't see a problem

At the end of the day the outcome is the same. Horses/ponies with no chance of a decent future are dispatched quickly & humanely.

 

[Tankey]

I find the use of language very interesting in this thread.
If you have your horse shot at home then it is being PTS or euthanised, whereas if you have your horse shot at Potters or Turners, it is being slaughtered.
Whether your horse is shot, injected, slaughtered, put to sleep, goes to sleep (as someone said ), then end result is the same and the horse is dead..end of.

 

[nativetyponies]

Um, not sure why this post has decended into this. Not sure if it is in attempt to shock but probably it is. Yes, rigamortice is a fact of life - all living creatures get it when they die - humans who are left curled up in their death beds have to be straighted out by breaking bones - oh dear shock horror.

Sorry, but any vet who puts a horse down in it's stable without just cause is seriously very stupid. Sometimes though, I would imagine that the poor animal cannot even get up to be taken outside so yes I would expect some are PTS in their stables.

Death is a fact of life - huh, no pun intended. Do we have to try to shock to get the upper hand?

and what a surprise i'm yet again quoted when others have said the same...i did apologise for cross posting..so just get off my back, eh?

 

[nativetyponies]

i wont mention my IQ on here, but it's a darn sight higher than some of the cabbages that have posted on this thread

 

[DragonSlayer]

Bloody hell!

Took me forever!

My opinion is as follows -

It is the right of any owner to dispose of their animal as they see fit.

HOWEVER....

I believe the OP should have asked for the contact details and LEFT IT THERE. I do not believe it was wise to ask meat prices as I think it was the catalyst that started WW3 here. The fact that she is considering it however, does not fill me with dread, she is being extremely sensible in the choice.

If someone buys a horse, then they MUST look at the eventual end of said horse. Both my two veterans were PTS at home with injections, although I could not afford to have them cremated and returned, I was ensuring that the meat would NOT enter the food chain. My choice. Both ends were peaceful, and dignified, the vets themselves conducted the whole affair from beginning to end with extreme professionalism. I thought about the bills later.

It is not my choice to send my horses to become food. But if it is someone elses, then THAT is perfectly acceptable. I am not going to sit and bray you out for making that choice.

My sons pony had to be PTS at the vet, by injection, because his surgery was not successful, if I could, I would have planned it at home.

I think that horse owners who say 'I can't afford to have it PTS because...' really need to take stock of their financial obligation to their animals. And yes, I knew of a couple of people personally who have said this.

To have a horse destroyed because it is dangerous, is a VERY sensible thing to do. If your dog bit a neighbour, chances are, it would be PTS....why is a horse any different?

To those people who seem to revel in accusing anyone who accepts the use of a slaughterhouse as evil spawns of Satan, you really need to wake up and smell the coffee. This is REAL LIFE. Scary, isn't it?

The End.

 

[missyme10]

Ah. I get it now. For example a user on here brought some very poor looking sucker foals at a market. In spite of her best efforts none of them were ever going to recover from their pooor start in life, so they were taken to Potters, after about three months of the best possible care.
I expect a few quid did change hands, & I also expect those few quid were reinvested in he welbeing of other horses and ponies so I can't see a problem

At the end of the day the outcome is the same. Horses/ponies with no chance of a decent future are dispatched quickly & humanely.

Glad you get me now
The situation you describe is not the kind of person I am talking about, if someone has tried there best and for whatever reason its not worked out and had to send them to Potters, then thats probably the best place for them. Sad but the reality of life.
and yes if that money is then reinvested in the well being of other horses - this is hardly someone I have an issue with

 

[teddyt]

I would rather get 100 than nothing - I have put a lot of time and effort into this pony and he hasnt given me a good life.

Owning a horse shouldnt be selfishly conditional. You may have put alot of time and effort into the pony but it doesnt mean that it was theright time and effort for that particular pony. If he didnt understand you or for some reason couldnt communicate his difficulties to you so you could help him then its not his fault. PTS by all means (im not against that if pony is dangerous) but wanting a few quid as some kind of compensation is ridiculous and selfish.

 

[SirenaXVI]

Which of these is the most peaceful and dignified? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqyF4E019uI where the horse goes down gently and quietly. Or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eamy6PDeZdw where there is lots of thrashing about and blood. The former is how Guy is going (yes, I HAVE planned), the latter - NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS!!!

As for those of you saying there is a major crisis in America since horse slaughter was banned there. It was stopped for good reason. The method they were using was deemed inhumane for horses. Countless vets testified in favour of it being banned. Not to mention all the cruelty and abuse that went on behind closed doors. As for solutions. Prosecute and/or fine the horse sport industry for over producing. Instead of them making money from killer buyers. It is because there is such an easy way to get rid of surplus stock, that they continue to produce horses in bulk. If there were no quick fix solutions, they might just think twice about their breeding strategies. It is due to human greed, arrogance and ignorance that these crises came about in the first place. As for private owners. This is when the horse owner license comes into play. If you do not possess a knowledge of equine psychology (there are plenty of ways people can educate themselves). And if you cannot afford long term horse ownership, then you should not be allowed to have a horse. Same goes for dogs and other pets.

You really are very uninformed re american slaughter. Have you seen the video of the Mexican slaughter house? If you think that the little grey pony had an undignified end, you should see the totally brutal end of the american horses who end up there, this after travelling hundreds of miles in double decker horse transporters, ALL because America has banned the slaughter of horses. It makes me sick to the stomach that the people who engineered the ban are actually proud of it, THEY have caused untold suffering to thousands of horses, some are just left to starve, some have been beaten to death and the remainder packed off to Canada if they are lucky, Mexico if not.

I agree that there are many people who own horses who perhaps should not, but I would also include those that keep old horses alive when they are clearly suffering, they do this for themselves, not for the good of the horse. Having a horse PTS by injection is much easier for the owner to deal with than a bullet, which is easier for the horse.

So, you want to prosecute the racing industry for over producing? I also dislike the wastage in this industry but never in a million years will they be penalised, there is just far too much money involved. Racing, like it or not is a numbers game, hence the over production, it will always be this way. Assuming this overproduction was stopped, it does not solve the immediate problem - now what is your solution if the slaughter houses were closed?

Similarly, what about the surplus of foals coming off the mountain or the forest? I completely agree that there are far too many and the responsible breeders are cutting back on breeding. This, however, STILL leaves an immediate problem, what do you suggest we do with them? Could you give a couple of dozen a home? No I thought not.

Incidentally the much castigated NP has done her bit for these little scraps - have you?

 

[Ted's mum]

i wont mention my IQ on here, but it's a darn sight higher than some of the cabbages that have posted on this thread

LOL!!!

 

[SirenaXVI]

i wont mention my IQ on here, but it's a darn sight higher than some of the cabbages that have posted on this thread

I would tend to agree NP

 

[Tormenta]

You really are very uninformed re american slaughter. Have you seen the video of the Mexican slaughter house? If you think that the little grey pony had an undignified end, you should see the totally brutal end of the american horses who end up there, this after travelling hundreds of miles in double decker horse transporters, ALL because America has banned the slaughter of horses. It makes me sick to the stomach that the people who engineered the ban are actually proud of it, THEY have caused untold suffering to thousands of horses, some are just left to starve, some have been beaten to death and the remainder packed off to Canada if they are lucky, Mexico if not.

I always remember the first video of a Mexican slaughterhouse that I watched and always remember the horses being slaughtered in view of each other, it has always stayed with me, a grey mare enclosed in the line when it was her turn constantly ducking her head as the workers tried to kill her, first time they fired they missed, second time they got her. It was one of the most heartwrenching things I have seen, every time she raised her head they tried and she ducked. The rest of the video was probably more cruel but for some reason, she has always stayed in my head. I know to anthromorphise is wrong but it was as if she knew what they were going to do.

 

[Ted's mum]

I find the use of language very interesting in this thread.
If you have your horse shot at home then it is being PTS or euthanised, whereas if you have your horse shot at Potters or Turners, it is being slaughtered.
Whether your horse is shot, injected, slaughtered, put to sleep, goes to sleep (as someone said ), then end result is the same and the horse is dead..end of.

completely agree!! I dont see why this post is soo long...its quite simple really whether it goes to potters and killed humanely or gets PTS at home ...THE HORSE IS DEAD in the end whatever method used..gunshot is the quickest and most painless way IMO. if everybody were 'fluffy bunnies' then the world would be way overcrowded with knackers, dangerous horses and maybe ill horses...one of my warmbloods who is 17.2hh+ who may I add not a good doer..so takes some feding esp in winter etc - he has wobblers syndrome - it isnt going to get better and will get worse..is it fair that I keep him alive or sell him on as I dont want the expense of a horse I cannot do anything with?? if I was rich I dare say things may be different - I may be able to keep him and keep pumping the grub into him....but its a deadloss and not fair on him to be alive having wobblers and being a poor do-er...or worse being passed around and may get into the wrong hands and sold as a riding horse if I were to give him away ...so whats your opinions on what I should do then? I can answer that myself he needs to be PTS - either at potters or at home, once he is dead - what difference does it make what happens to his carcass once he is dead??????

 

[JenJ]

Oooh, if we're doing IQ willy-waving, can I join in? Mine is 161

I have little experience with PTS, so have stayed as a lurker for most of this (very informative) thread, but to those who are accusing people of taking to slaughter as a commercial 'enterprise' - do you not think that the amount gained from selling the horse/pony for meat would be completely dwarfed by the amount spent on it, just in the last couple of months of its life, even if it's been kept cheaply? No-one is in horses for the money...

 

[*hic*]

Oooh, if we're doing IQ willy-waving, can I join in? Mine is 161

*bows down before super genius*

 

[missyme10]

Oooh, if we're doing IQ willy-waving, can I join in? Mine is 161

I have little experience with PTS, so have stayed as a lurker for most of this (very informative) thread, but to those who are accusing people of taking to slaughter as a commercial 'enterprise' - do you not think that the amount gained from selling the horse/pony for meat would be completely dwarfed by the amount spent on it, just in the last couple of months of its life, even if it's been kept cheaply? No-one is in horses for the money...

I would like to particuarly pick up on: "No-one is in horses for the money................................what ?
There are a lot of people who make plenty of money out of horses, Potters for starters wouldn't operate if there was no profit, the "meat man" at horse auctions makes a profit and this is often there sole income!
Then we have horse dealers, both good ones and bad.......the ones I know of drive blooming nice cars and therefore profit.

I am not suggesting its wrong to make money out of horses, but to think no one is in horses for the money is very naive.

If your talking about your average Jo Bloggs horse owner, of course there is no profit in death, horses are far to damn good at emptying your bank balance

 

[JenJ]

I would like to particuarly pick up on: "No-one is in horses for the money................................what ?
There are a lot of people who make plenty of money out of horses, Potters for starters wouldn't operate if there was no profit, the "meat man" at horse auctions makes a profit and this is often there sole income!
Then we have horse dealers, both good ones and bad.......the ones I know of drive blooming nice cars and therefore profit.

I am not suggesting its wrong to make money out of horses, but to think no one is in horses for the money is very naive.

If your talking about your average Jo Bloggs horse owner, of course there is no profit in death, horses are far to damn good at emptying your bank balance

Ah, I wasn't suggesting that people don't *make* money from horses, obviously businesses need to turn a profit else they'd cease to exist, and all yards/schools/dealers etc are businesses. But it's not generally an industry that makes a lot of money. People that are out to make a quick buck are likely to use another industry to do so - the majority in the horse world are there because they love being around horses.

If money wasn't an issue, I'd work as a groom. As it is, I earn 10 times more than I would as a working pupil, and have a nicer lifestyle, albeit less horse-scented

 

[natalia]

Missyme10 - I'm afraid to say you have a very "black beauty" outlook on things, esp. regarding money in meat horses. A horse is ALWAYS worth more alive and useful. End of. Potters don't also always pay you for small ponies and foals, they will dispatch them but they have no real meat value. If you want me to go in to how this all works in depth them PM me! The horses ending up at UK markets are normally sadly there for a reason, those who have been passed round market to market and are well "known" to regular traders will tend to only fetch about £400, this is what most people who buy reg. out the sales will take a punt on. This is STILL more than meat money. This would normally be a chancey buy that you would have a go with to sort out. Add in to the cost of the horse of keep and transport, even if only for a few days. Unless you are purchasing large horses for about £200 a head there really is NO MONEY in sending horses to slaughter and even then profit would only be £100 or so poss. less after your expenses. Compare this to the £400 average you would get from a sale and there's no comparison really, hence why horses are pushed pillar to post round the sales when they really should end up in a place like Potters. So in fact, the horses who do end up there are the lucky ones, who have escaped the downward market spiral. And rest assured, there is NOTHING more heartbreaking than seeing a horse that you used to own in bad condition at the sales.

 

[Natch]

as for the process inside the closed barn..do you want me to tell you how that works as well?

Um.. well I do actually please would you be so kind?

1. What - being left lying on the ground, unable to get up, and in agony. Until about twenty minutes later, someone (who had been watching the entire time) eventually comes along and ends the misery. How often does this sort of thing happen? If it's happened once, then who is to say it isn't a regular occurrence?

That's like saying that you've seen an owner abuse a dog, therefore dog abuse is a regular occurance. That Spindles farm is a regular occurance. That the whole baby P affair is a regular occurance. One sighting does not necessarily mean something is a regular occurance.

2. Emphasis on potentially. All these ifs and mights. Never giving chances to animals to improve their behaviour. It's no wonder they become 'dangerous' in the first place. All those negative vibes going about. You can actually instigate aggressive behaviours with your energy. What's happened to calm assertiveness.

3. I would have a qualm about it. There's usually a good reason for a dog to bite/attack. For reasons stated in #2 and that most people haven't a clue how to read a dog's body language. As always the animal pays the ultimate price.

Animals can be unpredictable. Thats one of the reasons why many of us love the little darlings

No words, just....

Oi, there's nowt wrong with hugging a tree you know

Think my question or the answer got lost some 40 odd pages back, but if anybody is going to Turners on business, I'd be interested in going and seeing it for myself if I could come with you.

As for all those people who say what horses do and don't feel and think - how can you possibly know?! All you can say unless you are an intuitive is that the horses exhibited signs of or a lack of such and such behaviour - their mental processes may or may not match that outward appearance.

 

[the_sophies]

This is what happened when they banned slaughter in America. (Warning: sensationalist journalism, but you get the idea. Not for the squeamish).

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5175642.html

"Horses at the Ciudad Juarez plant are stabbed in the back until the spinal cord is severed, then hoisted so their throats can be slit."

http://rtfitch.wordpress.com/2010/0...port-pens-feed-mexicos-horse-slaughter-trade/

Illegal slaughter farm in Florida:

http://www.examiner.com/animal-righ...laughterhouses-southwest-florida?render=print

In the EU:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/151975.html

I for one was impressed by the video of the gray pony at Potter's. What opponents of places like that need to realise is that THIS is the alternative, as long as there is a surplus of horses. Nobody is going to pay for these horses to be PTS at home. Nobody.

 

[vixann]

Bloody hell!

Took me forever!

My opinion is as follows -

It is the right of any owner to dispose of their animal as they see fit.

HOWEVER....

I believe the OP should have asked for the contact details and LEFT IT THERE. I do not believe it was wise to ask meat prices as I think it was the catalyst that started WW3 here. The fact that she is considering it however, does not fill me with dread, she is being extremely sensible in the choice.

If someone buys a horse, then they MUST look at the eventual end of said horse. Both my two veterans were PTS at home with injections, although I could not afford to have them cremated and returned, I was ensuring that the meat would NOT enter the food chain. My choice. Both ends were peaceful, and dignified, the vets themselves conducted the whole affair from beginning to end with extreme professionalism. I thought about the bills later.

It is not my choice to send my horses to become food. But if it is someone elses, then THAT is perfectly acceptable. I am not going to sit and bray you out for making that choice.

My sons pony had to be PTS at the vet, by injection, because his surgery was not successful, if I could, I would have planned it at home.

I think that horse owners who say 'I can't afford to have it PTS because...' really need to take stock of their financial obligation to their animals. And yes, I knew of a couple of people personally who have said this.

To have a horse destroyed because it is dangerous, is a VERY sensible thing to do. If your dog bit a neighbour, chances are, it would be PTS....why is a horse any different?

To those people who seem to revel in accusing anyone who accepts the use of a slaughterhouse as evil spawns of Satan, you really need to wake up and smell the coffee. This is REAL LIFE. Scary, isn't it?

The End.

do i have to say it again??? really????

 

[vixann]

Owning a horse shouldnt be selfishly conditional. You may have put alot of time and effort into the pony but it doesnt mean that it was theright time and effort for that particular pony. If he didnt understand you or for some reason couldnt communicate his difficulties to you so you could help him then its not his fault. PTS by all means (im not against that if pony is dangerous) but wanting a few quid as some kind of compensation is ridiculous and selfish.

even if that few quid was to be spent on other horses? why shouldnt I anyway?

 

[martlin]

do i have to say it again??? really????

I'll say it for you, it was ME who asked about price per kilo

 

[pastie2]

even if that few quid was to be spent on other horses? why shouldnt I anyway?

What if another horse owned by you is also misunderstood and ends up in the same predicament as the one you have given up on. Sorry OP but you dont or shouldnt just jump from one horse to another. Have you tried looking at your own skills of horsemanship?