vixann
Well-Known Member
that is the 1st time i have watched the grey pony video and i am impressed at how quick and efficient it was. O2Y - I hope all goes well when your horse time comes.
meat man
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Seahorse
Well-Known Member
I've had the same thing, only where we hacked past had retired lions and tigers (they had the Esso tiger there and he savaged the keeper!) there were ponies in the fields that were used to feed the animals and they would deplete by 2 a week until they ran out then they would go to the sales and get a few more. He had a slaughter licence and it was legal
My normally 100% ultra safe horse always used to go a bit funny going past the place and I didn't know why to start with. Pretty understandable that they were scared going past there!! I just hoped they didn't escape one day!
mcnaughty
Well-Known Member
And the WORST place logistically to have a horse shot is in the stable..
i've known a few that were PTS by injection by the Vet because its what the owner wanted..who are invariably never there!..and it couldn't be picked up by the knackerman til the next day..cue said knackerman having to snap the rigourmorticed joints to get the damn thing out!!!
very dignified for the horse, eh?
and as usual, said owner is nowhere to be seen..because they are "upset" that their ikkle baby has died!!
ETS..sorry cross posted
Um, not sure why this post has decended into this. Not sure if it is in attempt to shock but probably it is. Yes, rigamortice is a fact of life - all living creatures get it when they die - humans who are left curled up in their death beds have to be straighted out by breaking bones - oh dear shock horror.
Sorry, but any vet who puts a horse down in it's stable without just cause is seriously very stupid. Sometimes though, I would imagine that the poor animal cannot even get up to be taken outside so yes I would expect some are PTS in their stables.
Death is a fact of life - huh, no pun intended. Do we have to try to shock to get the upper hand?
mcnaughty
Well-Known Member
Nail hit firmly on head...
AmyMay
Situation normal
Just watched again.
Great endings for both animals. Thank you for posting them.
The grey pony goes to re-affirm everything that many of us have said about sending an animal to an abattoire. I didn't see any thrashing about, so not sure if we're watching the same one though?? But clearly there is some muscle spasm. As can happen with whatever method of destruction is used.
The old grey horse - looked very peaceful, I agree.
Thanks again.
Eluana
Well-Known Member
I don't normally post here, but hey ho.
Thank you to those posters that have posted information about this from personal experience. It was interesting to read, and learn, about what actually happens rather then watch some video online, made to sensationalize it.
I'm 17, don't currently own a horse, but do hope to in the future, and so if/when the time comes for that horse to be PTS, I will need to make a decision on how.
From the posts made by those with experience in this, my view has changed from the PTS by injection being the only 'kind' way to end a horses life, to there being more then one option for if any reason, my future horse has to be PTS.
So really, just thank you to those who have supplied experienced, factual information.
Thank you to those posters that have posted information about this from personal experience. It was interesting to read, and learn, about what actually happens rather then watch some video online, made to sensationalize it.
I'm 17, don't currently own a horse, but do hope to in the future, and so if/when the time comes for that horse to be PTS, I will need to make a decision on how.
From the posts made by those with experience in this, my view has changed from the PTS by injection being the only 'kind' way to end a horses life, to there being more then one option for if any reason, my future horse has to be PTS.
So really, just thank you to those who have supplied experienced, factual information.
jaypeebee
Well-Known Member
I do not view them as having upper hand. Some on this thread have been extremely patronising and lacking class in my opinion. I dont know how many horses Ive had PTS but a lot over a long period of time. Never have I considered taking them to slaughter. They are PTS at home with me at the end of the lead. I am not fluffy bunny but I have great deal of respect for my animals so they are killed in their own surroundings.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
So instead horse in America face long journeys to end their days in the mexican slughter houses wher the conditions are horrific, or are just abandoned & left to die slowly.
Those american campaigners must be almost as clever as you claim to be.......
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Zebedee
Well-Known Member
Is it not better though for those planning a poetic end (horse in it's own stable slowly collapsing in to a deep bed of straw) to find out now that they may need to revise their plans, rather than having the extra trauma of discovering that the deed will have to be done outside - even if it's raining - at the time?
AmyMay
Situation normal
What happened to good old fashioned legislation and regulation. If there was a problem - fix it, don't ban it.
I am truly horrified at what horses now have to go though in the US now.
jaypeebee
Well-Known Member
Yes you are right. Those were reasons for stopping slaughter houses in USA. In USA slaughter houses were mass slaughtering horses. Not the same as in UK where each horse is individually shot by handler. In USA method was automated and plants were not set up for horses. Horses can not be mass slaughtered mechanically and that was the problem. In UK methods are different and much the same as your vet or huntsman coming to shoot horse. Make no mistake though, USA is in crisis with the amount of horses with nowhere to go. Something has to be done to stop unnecessary travel to unregulated slaughter house out of country but it wont be until cost effective alternatives can be found.
mcnaughty
Well-Known Member
Fantastic Idea
missyme10
Well-Known Member
Can you actually read a whole post?
Go back and read what I wrote, because this is not what I meant and I VERY VERY clearly state I have no issue if horse dangerous, unaffordable and no alternative home possible, even if unable to be a working animal and owner wants a working animal.
I am not against potters or turners, I believe they are needed in our society and as long as horses are killed humanely thats fine by me.
What I have a problem with is those that so easily discard horses after they've served them for years, that pts a horse is no big deal, regardless of method.
Anyone who makes a decision on the welfare and future of a horse based purely on finances I believe cannot claim to be a genuine horse lover.........let me spell that out.
You've several horses, not worth much, homes could be found but u get peanuts, potters give offer you more................which route to you take?
If the homes for peanuts then I do not mean people like you, if you choose potters, I mean exactly people like you. I dont know you, or what your involvement with horses is, so I have no idea where you fit.
My comments were not directed at anyone in particular x
Meowy Catkin
Meow!
Unfortunately, the old horse I was refering to was PTS by lethal injection this summer with the right drugs and by an equine vet. It was all done properly and yet the horse suffered greatly, took ages to die and had to be given more drugs twice. It was awful. Luckily the owner was not there, we did however tell her that he went quickly and quietly as telling the truth would have been a cruel blow to an already distraught lady.
They are not a member of HHO so shouldn't read this.
Sadiemay
Well-Known Member
Its not about opposing a method of PTS, its about what YOU choose for YOUR horse. Who is anyone to judge what you do, honestly people do what you think is right for you and your horse and dont stress what others think.
As I have pointed out as has Lady La La, whether you PTS using a gun at home, at the hunt, at the abbatoir, on cloud cuckoo etc.. the process is exactly the same, there is no difference.
Sometimes looking at a scenario factually and taking the emotions out of it helps to see things more objectively, VERY difficult at times I know! and especially with such an emotive topic
Yes putting a horse to sleep at home, in its familer surroundings is surely the most "ideal" for the horse but the truth is we dont always live in an ideal world and as far as I can see loading them up into lorry and transporting them to the hunt or abbatoir is no different to transporting them to a show, new home, schooling facility, somewhere to hack etc...once they get there the process of PTS is the same whether is be at home or at an abattoir.
Once they have passed their body is just an empty shell. My main concern would be the horses welfare, dignity and treatment whilst it was alive, quite frankly than what happens to it once its dead. Blimey....I am really suprising myself today with my thinking!
Sadiemay
As I have pointed out as has Lady La La, whether you PTS using a gun at home, at the hunt, at the abbatoir, on cloud cuckoo etc.. the process is exactly the same, there is no difference.
Sometimes looking at a scenario factually and taking the emotions out of it helps to see things more objectively, VERY difficult at times I know! and especially with such an emotive topic
Yes putting a horse to sleep at home, in its familer surroundings is surely the most "ideal" for the horse but the truth is we dont always live in an ideal world and as far as I can see loading them up into lorry and transporting them to the hunt or abbatoir is no different to transporting them to a show, new home, schooling facility, somewhere to hack etc...once they get there the process of PTS is the same whether is be at home or at an abattoir.
Once they have passed their body is just an empty shell. My main concern would be the horses welfare, dignity and treatment whilst it was alive, quite frankly than what happens to it once its dead. Blimey....I am really suprising myself today with my thinking!
Sadiemay
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
Then what do you do if two weeks later you find the unsound horse you sold for peanuts to the nice lady who said she needed it as a companion in a low end market being sold to the meat man?
Selling horse for peanuts is not really an option if you truely care for their ongoing welfare.
I for one feel that anyone who has an elderly or unsound horse that they can no longer provide for should step up to the mark & have it PTS by whatever method, & in whatever location suits them, not shy away from that duty by selling the poor animal on for peanuts.
*hic*
village idiot :D
My IQ rating (last time I did one) was 153.
That means I'm cleverer than you, so therefore I'm right & you're wrong
Ahem *clears throat*
I'm cleverer still - last test I took scored 154 so I think you'll find that my opinion carries most weight.
Mind you I've no idea where the little grey cells have all disappeared to since then.
Sadiemay
Well-Known Member
Thanks Faracat for sharing your experience. I think its always a risk and NO method is 100% garuanteed. I have often torn myself up wondering if by choosing the injection I would be doing the right thing and up until last Friday I wasnt sure.....but then.....
I had the vet out from the new Equine Practice I have just joined to give my girl a full medical, and take blood for full blood work to do done. As she is a loony having her teeth checked/rasped and as well as a little needly shy so the vet sedated her as soon as she got there.
My horse within less than 30 seconds was seriously away with the fairies! I have never seen a sedative work so fast and she had less than half a small syringe. I could have nudged her and she would have gone down fast asleep or so it seemed to me.
I feel alot better knowing that an O.D of this drug (vet confirmed this is what they would use to knock her completely out before giving drug to stop the heart) she had would end her life almost instantly and she would be none the wiser apart from drifting off into sleep. She has been operated on in the past and had a G.A so I see putting a horse down by injection no different, they are unconcious before the drug is given to stop the heart.
But yes I do appreciate there is a risk that it can go badly, however its a risk I will take as opposed to choosing the gun. God its so difficult! I really dont want to ever be in this position but as Sadie is now 23 and with me for life its inevitable I guess
Sadiemay
I had the vet out from the new Equine Practice I have just joined to give my girl a full medical, and take blood for full blood work to do done. As she is a loony having her teeth checked/rasped and as well as a little needly shy so the vet sedated her as soon as she got there.
My horse within less than 30 seconds was seriously away with the fairies! I have never seen a sedative work so fast and she had less than half a small syringe. I could have nudged her and she would have gone down fast asleep or so it seemed to me.
I feel alot better knowing that an O.D of this drug (vet confirmed this is what they would use to knock her completely out before giving drug to stop the heart) she had would end her life almost instantly and she would be none the wiser apart from drifting off into sleep. She has been operated on in the past and had a G.A so I see putting a horse down by injection no different, they are unconcious before the drug is given to stop the heart.
But yes I do appreciate there is a risk that it can go badly, however its a risk I will take as opposed to choosing the gun. God its so difficult! I really dont want to ever be in this position but as Sadie is now 23 and with me for life its inevitable I guess
Sadiemay
I have read the whole therad and i have found it very educational... so thank you. it is not a subject people like to talk about but people do need educating about how our horses lives could end.
also, on youtube all the videos with titles such as 'horror in the slaughterhouse' with pictures of horses so skinny they are barely alive, how do these people think this is because of the slaughterhouse? its clearly because of the people who owned the horse! if they were not in the slaughterhouse where are they going to be? in a field up to their knees in mud knocking on deaths door....
also, on youtube all the videos with titles such as 'horror in the slaughterhouse' with pictures of horses so skinny they are barely alive, how do these people think this is because of the slaughterhouse? its clearly because of the people who owned the horse! if they were not in the slaughterhouse where are they going to be? in a field up to their knees in mud knocking on deaths door....
ThoroughbredStar
Well-Known Member
zebedee- Then what do you do if two weeks later you find the unsound horse you sold for peanuts to the nice lady who said she needed it as a companion in a low end market being sold to the meat man?
There was an article about this in H&H about people taking so called companions on loan etc and selling them to meat man. Very interesting, yet distressing story. Makes you aware!
There was an article about this in H&H about people taking so called companions on loan etc and selling them to meat man. Very interesting, yet distressing story. Makes you aware!
Happy Horse
Well-Known Member
More profit in the injection
So long as you were happy with the service thats fine.
I've had experience of both methods with my own horses over the years. I personally wouldn't have another one injected unless it was already under sedation.
Not at all. Many vets particularly the younger ones will avoid shooting as they do it so rarely. If I were to have a horse shot I would much prefer a hunstman/knacker to do it.
missyme10
Well-Known Member
If your logic is correct, then absolutely no one should ever sell a horse because we cannot guarantee its future once we are no longer legal owner.
Lets face it at the moment the horse market is absolutely dire, the fact is ponies are changing hands for a few quid, so I do understand what your saying. But I also know of many ponies that cost "peanuts" that are currently in great homes. These ponies could well be dead now because someone decided to do them a "favour"!
Is it really right to just put them all to sleep just in case they never have a good home?
Why not shoot the whole equine world then?
Because lets face it, circumstances change, I could lose my job tomorrow, so can I 100% gurantee my horses futures? Could you?
I totally agree with you about elderly horses and those not sound, pts is a far better option than passed on, whether it be the hunt, potters or whatever.
I think its the 2 year olds etc. thats never lived I have an issue with, that people are rounding them up and sending them to potters on the grounds they are sparing them an awful future, and they receive money for this. I think such people believe they are saving these horses. Wow, whilst I agree there is a problem with unwanted equines, this "I am unwanted ponies saviour attitude" doesn't quite wash with me. The FACT is they pick them up at sales for 20 quid and under, and get a hell of a lot more money taking them to slaughter - I think the point I am making is there is profit in it, and this now links to my main point earlier, this kind of person to me has no right to claim to be a horse lover.
Before anyone jumps down my neck, if you've read my previous posts, ill, unsound, elderly, unworkeable etc - no problems with potters.
Just a problem with those that round up the sound ones and ship them off for money, and have no regard for their lives, and see the £ only - and all this done in the name of saving them......utter bull *****, people like that should be honest and say yeah, so what I do it to make money.
And there is money in it - Potters wouldn't exist otherwise would it !!! x
*hic*
village idiot :D
Thanks Faracat for sharing your experience. I think its always a risk and NO method is 100% garuanteed. I have often torn myself up wondering if by choosing the injection I would be doing the right thing and up until last Friday I wasnt sure.....but then.....
I had the vet out from the new Equine Practice I have just joined to give my girl a full medical, and take blood for full blood work to do done. As she is a loony having her teeth checked/rasped and as well as a little needly shy so the vet sedated her as soon as she got there.
My horse within less than 30 seconds was seriously away with the fairies! I have never seen a sedative work so fast and she had less than half a small syringe. I could have nudged her and she would have gone down fast asleep or so it seemed to me.
I feel alot better knowing that an O.D of this drug (vet confirmed this is what they would use to knock her completely out before giving drug to stop the heart) she had would end her life almost instantly and she would be none the wiser apart from drifting off into sleep. She has been operated on in the past and had a G.A so I see putting a horse down by injection no different, they are unconcious before the drug is given to stop the heart.
But yes I do appreciate there is a risk that it can go badly, however its a risk I will take as opposed to choosing the gun. God its so difficult! I really dont want to ever be in this position but as Sadie is now 23 and with me for life its inevitable I guess
Sadiemay
I really hope for you and for your horse that the end for her comes as you want it to BUT it is as well to be aware of the other options and what they mean to the horse because there are old horses, as with some people, where the blood vessels have collapsed sufficiently that a needle cannot easily be inserted. Those are often the ones people are talking about when they say that an injection has gone wrong. In that situation, if the vet feels they won't get a needle in it may help you to know what else could be done to make her passing as easy as possible, especially if she has a needle phobia.
glitterbug
Well-Known Member
This on the whole has been a very informative post but after reading though all 53 pages what strikes me most about the two differing sides is that most people who have no problem with using Potters or turners also say that each to there own about the methods used i.e LI or bullet, hunts or vets whatever suits the individual and circumstances.
the other side seem much more vocal about pushing their points of view home as to why these places are so bad. Is it 'fluffyness' or is it lack of knowledge, I have known several people use Potters and have nothing but praise.
My only personal experience of LI was not pleasant, but would not condemn others for using it.
For some on here a different opinion to theirs is a cardinal sin.
sadly what we would want in an ideal world rarely happens.
the other side seem much more vocal about pushing their points of view home as to why these places are so bad. Is it 'fluffyness' or is it lack of knowledge, I have known several people use Potters and have nothing but praise.
My only personal experience of LI was not pleasant, but would not condemn others for using it.
For some on here a different opinion to theirs is a cardinal sin.
sadly what we would want in an ideal world rarely happens.
Happy Horse
Well-Known Member
When I was woking in an equine hospital admitedly nearly 10 years ago, there was one injection of Somulose to euthanase a horse but I have been reading of two separate injections, one to knock the horse out and then a second to stop the heart/breathing etc. Is this a new thing does anyone know?
ThoroughbredStar
Well-Known Member
Yep, plenty of dealers out there doing that! grrrr
jaypeebee
Well-Known Member
It does not sit easy with me either. Bottom of the scrap heap dealers buying up cheap ponies at auctions and selling for a respectable profit to meat man? It would not be something I would be proud of. Saviours? No they are business people but on a very different level from most.
lannerch
Well-Known Member
Having finally got to the current last post
Firstly I am stunned that people are complaining about martlin asking price per kg ( and yes I have read it marlin not op ) am I the only one that has worked out how much my horse is worth to the meat man
Do we have to tip toe around and not post reality as it may upset a fluffy bunny hugger who really from the title of this post should have realised it probably was not suitable for them.
That said I have no intentions of sending him to either potters or turners and it certainly would not be financially vaible to do so and even if it was I would prefer pts at home.
However having read posts of by injection I think I can safely say that for my horses sake I would never take the chance and bullet it would be.
You would just have to wipe me off the floor afterwards however if needs must my horse would come first.
when I was a teenager I rung turners up and told them they were horrible and evil and slammed the phone down now I know a lot better, whoops the ignorance of youth, sorry
Firstly I am stunned that people are complaining about martlin asking price per kg ( and yes I have read it marlin not op ) am I the only one that has worked out how much my horse is worth to the meat man
Do we have to tip toe around and not post reality as it may upset a fluffy bunny hugger who really from the title of this post should have realised it probably was not suitable for them.
That said I have no intentions of sending him to either potters or turners and it certainly would not be financially vaible to do so and even if it was I would prefer pts at home.
However having read posts of by injection I think I can safely say that for my horses sake I would never take the chance and bullet it would be.
You would just have to wipe me off the floor afterwards however if needs must my horse would come first.
when I was a teenager I rung turners up and told them they were horrible and evil and slammed the phone down now I know a lot better, whoops the ignorance of youth, sorry
*hic*
village idiot :D
What do you suppose would happen to them if they weren't bought for meat?
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
I had a pony PTS using LI a few years ago. The vet used two injections, as the second one went in his eyes bulged, I felt his pulse start to race (could feel it against my hand which was on the side of his face). The vet then took the rope from me 'just in case he goes up & comes forwards towards you'.
As it happened he didn't, he just dropped.
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