Meet Cards

Joined
22 May 2016
Messages
46
I am told that the MFHA have issued guidance that meet cards should only be sent to subscribers, In our case this means that supporters club members have to contact the Hon Sec to ask to come out. Puts the lid on it for some of us who have to plan where we go well in advance because of work/transport etc.

Is this universally adopted practice now?
 

Shay

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2008
Messages
6,346
We certainly only send cards to subscribers - and if you publicize it or send it on then you will be taken off the list. But if you are known to the hunt you can always ring and ask. If you have to plan well in advance try speaking to the secretaries now. The cards will be finalized -opening meet is in a few days for most. They can tell you if there is a meet on or near your proposed days so you can plan.

It is annoying but sadly there are those who seek to disrupt a lawful activity and / or commit a breach of the peace. Monitoring the hunt for legal compliance I have absolutely not issue with. But not balaclava wearing yobs shouting abuse, striking horses, damaging property etc. The "business end", such as there is, is up the front with the hounds. Not with the field, the foot followers or worse the field's vehicles. Those that come out with us seem to treat is as an opportunity to have a running battle with the Police who are generous enough to attend for our safety.

Sorry - small rant there. If there were balaclava wearing people rampaging all over the local golf course shouting abuse at the players I suspect more would be done....

Spare a thought for the Master's and Secretaries trying to keep a sport functional and within the law. Sometimes it requires a bit of effort on both sides.
 
Joined
30 January 2014
Messages
208
Trouble is people who have horses but don't hunt don't get notice of when the hunt is in the area.
This can lead to disruption and can be dangerous.
At least if you get notice you can decide to have horses in or out depending on what's best for your horse.
Some horses get very upset when the hunt in the area.
 

ester

Not slacking-multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
46,758
Location
Cambridge
As an occasional follower (limited by age of horse, and lack of transport) I have never had a problem obtaining a meet card after speaking the secretary so they have obviously been happy with my intentions, the first one I had a member who knew me so I could tell them that, the second I knew no one so I guess I must have just sounded ok? I don't think it does hunts much good to be too closed shop about meets as how will they ever encourage new subscribers then?

We also get a meet card for our local hunt at home, and notified of any changes as we have one that we usually give some sedalin to if we know they are about. Granted neither hunt had as much of a sab issue as others do.

If I were to not get a card, and to ring the hon sec as a visitor (because I could only get to meets I could hack to) I'd be asking them to go through half the meet card and writing it down anyway.
 

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
8,949
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
My local pack has become very secret squirrel. I don't think they have antis, but they do now have monitors.

Trouble is, it royally p1sses off the local horse and livestock owners when the hunt turn up without warning. So they are turning formerly pro hunt locals against them. It must be pretty embarrassing for the field to get yelled at by fraught horse owners trying to grab their animals in.

I still have up to now been getting a meet card, mainly because I am prepared to make a right PITA of myself if I don't. I always bring the horses in when the hunt is likely to be around, and they don't get a peep out of me as long as I know in advance. Otherwise, I kick off loudly (I have had a fair few issues with them in the past).
 
Joined
22 May 2016
Messages
46
I do understand the very valid reasons but it is just difficult when your are juggling horse/transport/shift work to get a few days in. This, in my experience, will have a limiting effect on the members of the field because only knowing a week ahead makes it impossible to go.

Have to say a couple of smaller local landowners have made negative remarks, a card at least gives them notice of a possible disturbance to stock.

Of course, I'll still go out as I'll pop into kennels every week! Another PITA.
 

ihatework

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
15,216
Well I'm bang smack in the middle of big hunt country, who are well monitored.
I'm not particularly pro hunt but to give them their due they actually publish their meets on their website. We do get disrupted by the hunt, most Saturdays through the season, but at least they are open about where they are heading.
 

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
8,949
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Ihw, IMHO too that's how it should be, with meets published up front. I don't understand why hunts should be nervous of being monitored, unless they have something to hide. In fact, they should welcome monitors, to show that they are adhering to the law.
 
Joined
22 August 2016
Messages
568
Location
Kent / Cheshire
Our hunt has an email distribution list for all news and meet cards, which you can contact the hon secretary to request to be added to. I don't know anyone who has been turned down. Though everyone I know who has asked has been genuine, and has previously been out with the hunt with a friend. Our local bloodhound pack publish the meets on their website.
 
Joined
30 January 2014
Messages
208
Ihw, IMHO too that's how it should be, with meets published up front. I don't understand why hunts should be nervous of being monitored, unless they have something to hide. In fact, they should welcome monitors, to show that they are adhering to the law.
Exactly. Trouble is I don't think they do adhere to the rules.
 

Shay

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2008
Messages
6,346
No hunt is - or should be - nervous about being monitored. Absolutely not. The problem is that what is being badged as monitoring for legal compliance actually amounts to harassing the mounted field and from time to time trespass and criminal damage. Legal compliance sits with the huntsman and the whip at the front. Not the kids at the back.

We're a relative urban hunt so it isn't really possible for us to show up unexpectedly. We have permission for every piece of land we cross and check with landowners again in the days before the meet as well as immediately afterward. We do occasionally have livery yards or folk with horses at home who might get surprised by us on the road - all they have to do is let us know their postcode and we'll alert them the week before when the hunt is in their area so they can take whatever steps they need.

In terms of juggling transport shifts etc - just call the secretary. They'll happily tell you when the meets are.

It is a difficult line to walk. Hunts all do the best they can.
 

ester

Not slacking-multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
46,758
Location
Cambridge
I'm struggling to understand the difference between ringing the secretary and writing down the meets from a phonecall and having a meet card?
 
Joined
22 May 2016
Messages
46
No hunt is - or should be - nervous about being monitored. Absolutely not. The problem is that what is being badged as monitoring for legal compliance actually amounts to harassing the mounted field and from time to time trespass and criminal damage. Legal compliance sits with the huntsman and the whip at the front. Not the kids at the back.

We're a relative urban hunt so it isn't really possible for us to show up unexpectedly. We have permission for every piece of land we cross and check with landowners again in the days before the meet as well as immediately afterward. We do occasionally have livery yards or folk with horses at home who might get surprised by us on the road - all they have to do is let us know their postcode and we'll alert them the week before when the hunt is in their area so they can take whatever steps they need.

In terms of juggling transport shifts etc - just call the secretary. They'll happily tell you when the meets are.

It is a difficult line to walk. Hunts all do the best they can.
This is our problem, Hon Secs can only give a couple o days notice - ****** all useful to those of us with commitments..
 

spacefaer

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 March 2009
Messages
4,215
Location
Shropshire
If you are a landowner or farmer, the master of the hunt will go round the area a few days before and "card" you - ie let you know that the hunt is in the area. It is impossible to card every single owner of every small patch of land, so some horse owners will get missed out, but the likelihood is that if the hunt was around on a particular date last season, they are likely to be around at the same time this season. Most packs have a very similar order of meet locations from one year to the next.

Knowing where your local hunt is going to be between now and Christmas is a simple matter with most packs of ringing the Hon Sec and having a friendly chat. If you are likely to want to go to particular locations or on specific dates, then just ask!

One of my local packs has the meet card on a secure page on their website - password protected - which goes until the New Year, and another has an email system, where subscribers and followers get notifications.

It's not hard to get hold of meets - you just have to ask nicely!
 

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
8,949
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Sorry, Spacefaer, but the attitude that it is impossible to card every landowner so that some horse owners will be missed is simply not good enough. I had words with a master who said he couldn't be expected to notify everyone with 'an acre and a pony'. Well, he could, if only he got organised.

We used to have a brilliant local hunt supporter who made it her business to welcome all new people moving into the area, and enquire if they wished to receive a meet card. Plus she would phone round all of us a few days before hounds were expected. However, she got so demoralised after repeatedly being kept out of the loop by the relevant joint master that she gave it up in the end.

Asking 'nicely' round here gets you nowhere now, unless you are in the inner circle.
 

Shay

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2008
Messages
6,346
Frankster - I'm sorry your secretaries can only give such short notice. I wonder if that is a local issue. In practical terms it simply isn't possible to organize a meet with only a few days notice - plus you have to have a meet card for the subscribers. As I have said before it is a very fine line to walk and hunts are forced into this position by the illegal activities of others. Trail hunting is completely legal. We should not have to hide on the margins. Nor are we afraid of fair and proper monitoring for legal compliance. Its the harassment and intimidation which some alleged monitors perpetrate. Hunts would not encourage any followers at all if every time they were verbally abused, photographed, obstructed and placed in fear. We've had horses struck - both with whips and deliberately hit with vehicles. Hounds injured. Vehicles damaged. Landowners and associated businesses harassed, simply for their association with a perfectly legal activity.

In any hobby, pursuit or even profession there are those whose actions give others a bad reputation. That is I am sure as true of hunts as of those who oppose hunting. It is a pity that the unlawful actions of a minority (on both sides!) are allowed to taint everyone else. And the unintended outcome of that is this difficulty with announcing dates etc in advance.
 

ester

Not slacking-multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
46,758
Location
Cambridge
But why should there be an issue announcing dates to members of your supporters club who have hunted with you before? It isn't like announcing dates to an unknown quantity?
 

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
8,949
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
That's nuts, Frankster. It hardly encourages people to have a few days out per season if it's so much hassle even for a supporters club member to find out dates. It's how to kill interest from potential new followers.

I remember now the details of the new restrictions introduced here last year on landowners getting meet cards. A master told me that I must join the supporters club to continue to receive one. For which presumably an annual subscription is due, though I didn't get as far as enquiring the cost.

I rather firmly indicated that after 30 years of living here and being carded for free, I was most definitely not going to join a support group for this pack, and I still expect the meet card to still be given. Tbh, hunt days here are a complete pain in the butt, and we go on lockdown. To additionally be expected to pay for the privilege of knowing in advance when the hunt is around was taking the piss.

Hunts are their own worst enemies sometimes.
 

ester

Not slacking-multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
46,758
Location
Cambridge
I think I would be writing to say that unfortunately due to their new unworkable system you will be forced to find alternative hunting this year.
 

Velcrobum

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 October 2016
Messages
787
I own land and have horses, it is not used as bounded by a very very busy A road, however the local bridle paths do get used. I used to get a card but both local hunts are very secret squirrel. 1 hunt I have in the past trained with one of the MFH's but can I get info from the secretary big fat no. All I want to know is if they are in the area so I can keep the horses in. I have asked very nicely. The second hunt is much less of a problem as due to said busy A road I very rarely venture across it so don't enter their area.

An addition the hunt has gone so secret squirrel that there is no contact number on the website anymore. :mad:
 
Last edited:

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
8,949
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
Velcrobum, some years ago I informed the secretary of my local pack, in writing, that I will be charging any vet's fees resulting from injuries sustained by my horses due to an unnotified appearance by the hunt, directly to the hunt. I was forced into doing this after yet another unexpected but clearly preplanned appearance, which sent my in foal mare into complete hysterics in the field. Not even the local tenant farmers whose land the hunt were crossing had been notified that day, either.

They don't come on my 7 acres, but they do go immediately adjacent to it on 3 sides. Tbh, the mounted field and hounds aren't as much hassle as the huge travelling circus of vehicles which this pack seems to attract, and which stuff up the local roads. Why on earth do they need so many quad bikes??
 

Velcrobum

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 October 2016
Messages
787
My main concern is meeting the hunt when hacking on the bridlepaths either on the youngster or my old boy who suffered a bad tendon injury and who we don't want leaping about (he has a huge all 4 legs off the ground bronc when excited). Fortunately we are slightly protected as the paddocks are next to the road our house and next door are between them and land the hunt uses. Short of going to the kennels there is no way of contacting them even for fallen stock unless you know the numbers already. We also have sheep so periodically I have to visit to dump a carcase even then there is usually no one around. Just go to the flesh shed fill in the book take my copy and dump the dead sheep. Its interesting that all the hunt servants ie secretary, MFH's etc social media platforms have not been used since 2012 was being very nosy to see the depths of the secret squirreliness................
 
Joined
24 November 2008
Messages
1,268
From comments here, it almost sounds as if the Antis have won to some extent.....

So frustrating.
Legally they are supposed to have though, or at least to the extent that the act goes.

I'd suggest it is more that the hunts have won by virtue of so very many of them breaking what was anyway a pretty weak law.

It is somewhat like the teenagers who smoke pot in odd little corners near where I live. Basically a mildly harmful, but a bit 'first world problem', activity done somewhat (but arguably not enough given the public nuisance both cause) shadily. They know the law abiding public know they're not, but they also know the law in unlikely to be enforced very heavily.

I think both are possibly somewhat more of a problem in that they lead to a general disrespect for the law than for the sake of the activities themselves. But that being said I'd much rather occasionally tell a slightly stoned teen they had better move further from my dog walk than ask the same of a hunt... Which says a lot about the lack of respect that is being shown to neighbours here really...

ETA: obviously not commenting on those hunts complying with both spirit and letter of the law - just those who are not and/or are letting their recreation (very few followres required for pest control...) spoil other's enjoyment
 
Last edited:

Downton Dame

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2015
Messages
2,062
Location
Albion
Ihw, IMHO too that's how it should be, with meets published up front. I don't understand why hunts should be nervous of being monitored, unless they have something to hide. In fact, they should welcome monitors, to show that they are adhering to the law.
quite right but its the yobs and balaclava thugs who arrive to cause trouble and disrupt a lawful activity that hunts are trying avoid.
 

Tiddlypom

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 July 2013
Messages
8,949
Location
In between the Midlands and the North
quite right but its the yobs and balaclava thugs who arrive to cause trouble and disrupt a lawful activity that hunts are trying avoid.
It is important to distinguish between 'Hunt Monitors', who observe the hunt and do not disrupt proceedings, and 'Hunt Saboteurs', who actively disrupt and agitate against the hunt.
No law abiding hunt should be worried by the former, whilst the latter are simply spoiling for a scrap.
It appears that one pack has today killed a fox right in front of the hunt monitors. Whilst I have no first hand knowledge of the incident, it is all over Facebook. As it happens, this pack is the one in which I had my most recent experience of pre ban hunting.
If I was to go trail hunting these days, post ban, I would expect the hunt to indeed 'trail hunt', so as to obey the law.
 
Joined
9 April 2015
Messages
102
I have given up on trying to go out with my local hunt - after repeated efforts to get a meet card, or even just find out when the two meets local to me were taking place, I had no success and simply gave up in the end. It was not for want of trying; I phoned, I emailed, I messaged on FB... I get that they may be worried about sab activity, but if that is the justification, as a relative newcomer to this area with no hunting horsey contacts it was impossible and they may like to think about how new potential subscribers are supposed to be able to get involved..! I hunted where I lived before and told them the packs I went out with, in case that was the issue. I go out with the local bloodhound packs now instead. Of course it isn't the same, but the cap is half the price, there's plenty of jumping, meet cards are openly available and they make newcomers feel welcome.
 
Top