Mid-sold pony PLEASE HELP!

[splashgirl45]

if the vet that did the vetting was for another buyer the information should not be disclosed to anyone except the person who was buying the pony. if you want a vets opinion on purchase you have to pay for a vetting yourself. i dont quite understand when these 2 friends rode the pony. you said they thought it was sound so you have bought a sound pony who the seller told you had not been in work . as others have said the pony would need plenty of time walking before even trotting and especially not any type of lesson...my mare was off work for 3 months when i had an operation, i spent 4 weeks hacking at walk, then mainly walk with a couple of trots, then after about 8 weeks started cantering again and hacking as normal. at that stage i would have considered a half hour lesson and not before... no matter how you wrap this up, you made a mistake not having your own vetting and now need to find out why the pony is lame and get it treated, then slowly get it fit by hacking at walk!!

 

[ester]

She is 12 years old. I received her two weeks ago on the Wednesday. I gave her a few days to settle in then just had a walk round the lanes. My lesson was on the following Monday morning. We had just warmed up and were starting trot work when my experienced instructor told me to pull up as we couldn’t continue due to her being lame. I called the vet immediately and she came out the next day. The seller actually came to the vets appointment at her request which I was fine with.

so when did your two friends ride the pony and not notice she was lame?

 

[Ambers Echo]

I think they do that too, AE, but I don't think people who do that tell buyers that the pony failed a vetting days before when they come to view it. Or attend vet visits when the lameness is explored.
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I'd agree about the vet visit. You'd expect numbers blocked/ no contact once the sale had completed. But actually the failed vetting disclosure could purely be to prevent them vetting her. But who knows! It would be very difficult to prove unless the previous owners were as careless as that 16 year old who left evidence of a long standing prior issue scattered across the internet!

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

Hi op.
I just thought I would let you know you are not the only person to make a mistake like this.
If I had googled the name of the dealer I bought my horse off I would never have gone anywhere near.
Pretty early on I gave up the idea of getting my money back. The horse nowhere near as he described and his passport was a fairy tale.
I also realised that out of the three parties in this transaction the horse was the only blameless one.
I had a rough time with my horse but we got there in the end. He was a lot older than I thought but I only wanted a happy hack. At first he was a very unhappy hacker but in time we got the measure of each other.
I had made up my mind that if he didn't come good the best thing was to pts.
It's a hard lesson to learn but for me it worked out just fine.
Evan if you are entitled to a refund it takes forever to get the money...it might be that you have to just take the hit and do what's right for the pony.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I’m sorry you went through that but glad it turned out ok in the end.
I adore this pony and if they refuse to have her back then I’ll do everything that I can to get her right.

 

[Wishfilly]

I think I am being influenced by a couple of recent events at my old yard. A 16 year old had a pony who was lame. She kept being told it was lame. She kept riding it anyway. Eventually the yard owner told her she would kick her off if she kept riding a lame pony. So she turned it away for about a month then put it up for sale. A family came to view and loved the pony. Had it vetted. It failed but it was quite marginal. Seller spun a story, buyers bought the story and the pony. There were posts all over IG of the pony being lame. As in ranty adolescent posts like "Everyone keeps telling me my pony is lame. He is FINE. Why can't everyone mind their own business. I KNOW MY PONY'. Or 'Sigh W.xxx is LAME AGAIN. Just my luck. I want it to rain soooo bad I wanna jump" Etc etc. They were all still there when the pony sold. I checked!

DO I think she should have been made to have her pony back? Yes! She was thoroughly dishonest and I am not sure being a clueless idiot counts as defence!

Pony 2 has never been right. Has been intermittently lame for going on 2 years and has had 2 sets of severe ulcers. Has just finished another course of gastroguard and sulcrafate and 6 months off work. Looked healthy and -presumably due to the extended rest - was sound. They quickly advertised. Thankfully the pony went lame again before it sold. I and everyone that knew the family were FURIOUS that they were selling in such a dishonest way. That pony could have briefly passed a vetting in between injury and pain related ulcer episodes but is clearly not going to be ok for long.

I think sellers do offload their ill and injured ponies and it is appallingly unfair to the next and owner and most of all to the poor bl00dy ponies.

Whteher that has happened in this case I have no idea. But it happens and I think it's awful

I think we all have stories of people who have missold ponies/horses and lied when selling, and it's obviously both morally and legally wrong.

But we can't know this is the case with this seller, and coming out to the vet appointment after purchase especially is hugely decent of them. I can't think of anyone I know of who has missold a horse who would do that.

Given OP now can't get their own story straight, I'm becoming more sceptical of them.

That said, we can never know who's right and who's wrong, and luckily, it's not for us to determine!

 

[1523679]

I don’t get this.

Pony was sold as having failed a vetting due to soundness issues of uncertain attribution.

OP buys pony, gets vet out and is told that pony has soundness issues of uncertain attribution.

Sorry OP. I hope your vet is good and helpful, and that you manage to get your new pony sound again x

 

[ester]

What did the seller say when there at the vet appointment re. returning etc? You said in OP they won't take her back, seems weird to attend the vet appointment then.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

I just can't see how the OP has a leg to stand on. The pony failed a vetting, the OP didn't get one herself and it has muscle wastage. Was that not spotted at the viewing? Buyers have some responsibility as well as sellers.
The BHS have recently published "reminder" advice about buying unseen, not getting a vetting, etc, as they are being deluged with similar queries. To be honest I think trying to take action in this case would be as bad, or worse, than being a dodgy seller.

The muscle wastage was only picked up by the vet on the second examination, it’s subtle.
I am appalled that you think I’m worse than a dodgy dealer! I have never tried to con anyone in my life, and would never do so. All I’ve done is ask for advice as to whether I’ve got any comeback in this situation. My only failing is to be too nice of a person to not trust what someone told me.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

What did the seller say when there at the vet appointment re. returning etc? You said in OP they won't take her back, seems weird to attend the vet appointment then.

She wouldn’t commit to having her back, she agreed to keep in touch which she has, as we waited a week to see if it was a recent injury which was causing the lameness. I did tell her if the conclusion was that it was something more then I would be returning her for a refund. Now she’s refusing.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

Not calling you stupid - but very, very naive and unwise to have made this purchase. And that is a heck of a lot of money to pay for a pony that seller had clearly told you had failed a vetting and was 'stiff'. Stiff is just another name for unsound, surely even a novice potential buyer would have strongly queried that phrase and at the very least have your own vet check it out for that asking price for a pony that they told you had not passed a vetting and was not sound!? If she is a welsh D (pure bred)then I am also VERY surprised she does not have a welsh passport....or perhaps that original 'missing' passport told another story altogether about her age and background.

I am sorry you have now lost all that money - personally I do not think you have a hope in hell of getting a refund. But most important of all, what about the poor pony in all this fiasco? Is vet treatment and opinion being sought, what future has the pony? What will you do with her if she is no longer sound enough to use? So sorry for the poor bloody horse, same old story over and over again.

She is a Welsh D X, blue passport. If she cannot be returned then of course I’ll be getting her diagnosed and treatment if possible. She is being well looked after, fed and watered and my girls are grooming her every day.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

if the vet that did the vetting was for another buyer the information should not be disclosed to anyone except the person who was buying the pony. if you want a vets opinion on purchase you have to pay for a vetting yourself. i dont quite understand when these 2 friends rode the pony. you said they thought it was sound so you have bought a sound pony who the seller told you had not been in work . as others have said the pony would need plenty of time walking before even trotting and especially not any type of lesson...my mare was off work for 3 months when i had an operation, i spent 4 weeks hacking at walk, then mainly walk with a couple of trots, then after about 8 weeks started cantering again and hacking as normal. at that stage i would have considered a half hour lesson and not before... no matter how you wrap this up, you made a mistake not having your own vetting and now need to find out why the pony is lame and get it treated, then slowly get it fit by hacking at walk!!

It was supposed to be a short assessment lesson just to see where she was at so we could plan a fitness regime, by a local well respected instructor. I informed her exactly of her fitness levels. I never had any intention of rushing her. Before the lesson all I had done was a couple of very short hacks in walk.
The vet had disclosed the previous potential buyers vetting results to the seller, according to her.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I did tell her if the conclusion was that it was something more then I would be returning her for a refund. Now she’s refusing.

And she is quite within her rights to refuse to do so. She informed you at the time of purchase pony had failed a previous vetting and also pointed out that the pony was 'stiff'. You did not then either walk away from the purchase, or arrange for your own vet to do a vetting for you prior to purchase to check out why it had failed a vetting and why it was stiff. I am sorry OP but you really had every warning and opportunity given to you by the seller to walk away from this sale but you chose not to. And I cannot see that a seller who deliberately mis sold a horse would ask to be there when you got your own vet to look at the lame horse. They would be blocking your number and email and frankly I think this might well be the next step they take and who can blame them.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

What did the seller say when there at the vet appointment re. returning etc? You said in OP they won't take her back, seems weird to attend the vet appointment then.

I told her I was getting her seen by the vet and she asked if she could be there. I didn’t see why not as we were still on good terms then.

 

[Wishfilly]

She wouldn’t commit to having her back, she agreed to keep in touch which she has, as we waited a week to see if it was a recent injury which was causing the lameness. I did tell her if the conclusion was that it was something more then I would be returning her for a refund. Now she’s refusing.

Has she said anything about why she is refusing?

If she is a private seller, and you told, rather than asked, her about returning, that may have got her back up.

But if, for example, she doesn't have the money/space to take the pony back, you could go through the courts, win, and still not get anywhere.

The more you post, the more I think you should just go down the route of vet investigations to see what can be done.

You must have anticipated this possibility when you bought the pony, given the circumstances of the sale?

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I told her I was getting her seen by the vet and she asked if she could be there. I didn’t see why not as we were still on good terms then.

This doesn't seem like the behaviour of someone thinking 'oh crumbs they're going to find out about that pre-existing problem we hoped they wouldn't notice' to me.

I've not idea the legalities OP and I'm sure we could all make various arguments either way on here but you're going to need to get proper legal advice if you want a more solid answer to take forward.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

And she is quite within her rights to refuse to do so. She informed you at the time of purchase pony had failed a previous vetting and also pointed out that the pony was 'stiff'. You did not then either walk away from the purchase, or arrange for your own vet to do a vetting for you prior to purchase to check out why it had failed a vetting and why it was stiff. I am sorry OP but you really had every warning and opportunity given to you by the seller to walk away from this sale but you chose not to. And I cannot see that a seller who deliberately mis sold a horse would ask to be there when you got your own vet to look at the lame horse. They would be blocking your number and email and frankly I think this might well be the next step they take and who can blame them.

Because she knew what I intended to do with the pony and she was adamant that Sandy would be perfect for us. Now I have had a pony for two weeks, only rode her three times before finding what a bad a state she actually is in. I have a pony who may never be sound. My girls are distraught because they adore her and she might not be staying.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

Has she said anything about why she is refusing?

If she is a private seller, and you told, rather than asked, her about returning, that may have got her back up.

But if, for example, she doesn't have the money/space to take the pony back, you could go through the courts, win, and still not get anywhere.

The more you post, the more I think you should just go down the route of vet investigations to see what can be done.

You must have anticipated this possibility when you bought the pony, given the circumstances of the sale?

The exact words I used were very polite, I said something like ‘unfortunately the vet has informed me that the pony has a long term lameness issue. I’m going to have to ask you if you will have her back and refund me the cost of her. I don’t mind covering the £200 I’ve spent in vets examinations and her first vaccination’

 

[splashgirl45]

so when did these 2 expert friends ride her, its still not clear......and what is the bad state the pony is in? have you had proper investigations done, many leisure horses and ponies will not have even muscles both sides because they are being ridden by people who are not experienced enough to understand that they need to be worked equally on both sides, pony may not be as bad as you seem to think....why not get a proper work up with an equine vet and find out where the problem is? i always feel so sorry for the horses in these cases as they have done nothing wrong..

just read what you said to the seller, what exactly does long term lameness mean, which part of the leg, is it the hocks, the fetlock the foot, long term lameness means nothing if the vet cant tell you what has caused the long term lameness...doesnt sound like a good equine vet to me..

 

[brighteyes]

She wouldn’t commit to having her back, she agreed to keep in touch which she has, as we waited a week to see if it was a recent injury which was causing the lameness. I did tell her if the conclusion was that it was something more then I would be returning her for a refund. Now she’s refusing.

Well, if the pony wasn't that bad (as evidenced by the video and neither you nor your friends riding her and not noticing anything amiss) she might have done something whilst in your care?

 

[Wishfilly]

The exact words I used were very polite, I said something like ‘unfortunately the vet has informed me that the pony has a long term lameness issue. I’m going to have to ask you if you will have her back and refund me the cost of her. I don’t mind covering the £200 I’ve spent in vets examinations and her first vaccination’

The £200 is always going to be your liability.

So you asked politely. And the seller has said no.

Assuming they are a private seller, you need to prove misrepresentation, which will be very tricky, given that they openly told you the pony had failed a vetting. And that they should have known the pony was lame, even though apparently your experienced friends failed to spot it.

The seller may well be thinking that the muscle wastage is due to the pony being out of work, and the lameness may have some other cause- they may even think you have caused the injury in some way.

They may, for whatever reason, be unable to take the pony back right now.

You took a risk on a cheap pony. You chose not to get the pony vetted, knowing it may fail. You must have understood on some level, you were taking on some element of risk?

 

[honetpot]

I have a no longer youngster sat in my field, he was backed and then because I couldn't find anyone to ride him, he was hunting fit when he came home, he went back in the field and has been there about three years. Well, every time I think I really ought to find him a home, as in today's market he would sell, I think is it worth the hassle. If no one did fittening work, and he went lame, 'oh, she didn't tell you the real reason why he was turned away', apart from his vaccinations and castration, he has never needed a vet, but he may not pass the vet tomorrow, I have no idea.
Having mentioned him to a couple of people at RC, with the caveat that you would need to put in the work, I would think at least six to eight weeks, it's soon apparent no one wants to put in the basic work, and I am not letting anyone have him thinking they could take for a lesson tomorrow.

 

[HashRouge]

so when did these 2 expert friends ride her, its still not clear......and what is the bad state the pony is in? have you had proper investigations done, many leisure horses and ponies will not have even muscles both sides because they are being ridden by people who are not experienced enough to understand that they need to be worked equally on both sides, pony may not be as bad as you seem to think....why not get a proper work up with an equine vet and find out where the problem is? i always feel so sorry for the horses in these cases as they have done nothing wrong..

just read what you said to the seller, what exactly does long term lameness mean, which part of the leg, is it the hocks, the fetlock the foot, long term lameness means nothing if the vet cant tell you what has caused the long term lameness...doesnt sound like a good equine vet to me..

Yes I'd wondered about this. It sounds like the vet has examined the pony but not done a proper work up. Has she had flexion tests done? Been nerve blocked? Had scans/ x rays? I don't really see how the vet can diagnose a long-term, pre-existing condition without this. I also wouldn't read too much into the muscle wastage atm - the OP says that she only noticed when the vet pointed it out to her, and that the vet only picked it up on a second examination. So it sounds very subtle and it cannot be definitely linked to the lameness, as far as I can see.

OP - did the vet actually give you any idea what they think might be wrong with the horse? You also say that you and the seller agreed to wait a week to see if the pony got better. Which suggests that the vet didn't say it was a long-term thing when they first saw her? Has the vet seen her twice?

 

[paddy555]

I
The vet had disclosed the previous potential buyers vetting results to the seller, according to her.

you keep saying this but what PRECISELY did the vet disclose to the seller? did they hand over the vetting sheet? did they say the pony was permanently lame, slightly lame, stiff? what did they disclose. Did they disclose all the vetting details? If your vet couldn't diagnose an existing long term condition when you called him how did the vetting vet do so without further tests etc?

If you are going to prove the seller miss-sold to you then you are going to have to provide that evidence as I cannot see any other way you can prove the seller miss-represented the pony to you.

 

[irishdraft]

OP what exactly has your vet diagnosed is wrong with the pony ?

 

[Bellaboo18]

OP the horse failed a vetting because it was stiff/lame, the two words are almost interchangeable. The horse was lame because it was stiff.

So you purchased a horse that you were told was lame and is now lame.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I think they do that too, AE, but I don't think people who do that tell buyers that the pony failed a vetting days before when they come to view it. Or attend vet visits when the lameness is explored.
.

Well quite! How can *this* pony have been mis-sold when the vendor disclosed the failed vetting?

I am surprised that there isn't a thread ' What should I do about the buyer who wants to return the pony I sold for a refund, even though I said it had just failed a vetting at the viewing?' I'm pretty sure most answers would be 'tell her to jog on!'

 

[GrassChop]

Sorry that you've had to go through this OP.
However, at this point, I'd stop delaying things by going back and forth about whether the seller should refund or not. Chalk it up and just start the process with the vet to find out what is wrong. It's not fair for the pony to remain lame while you wonder if you can get your money back.

 

[SO1]

How does the vet know it is a long term pre existing lameness without giving you a diagnosis? It does not make sense.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

so when did these 2 expert friends ride her, its still not clear......and what is the bad state the pony is in? have you had proper investigations done, many leisure horses and ponies will not have even muscles both sides because they are being ridden by people who are not experienced enough to understand that they need to be worked equally on both sides, pony may not be as bad as you seem to think....why not get a proper work up with an equine vet and find out where the problem is? i always feel so sorry for the horses in these cases as they have done nothing wrong..

just read what you said to the seller, what exactly does long term lameness mean, which part of the leg, is it the hocks, the fetlock the foot, long term lameness means nothing if the vet cant tell you what has caused the long term lameness...doesnt sound like a good equine vet to me..

The vet has said it’s definitely not an abscess, there is no heat in her leg but slight swelling around her hock joint. They can’t diagnose until they do nerve blocks to determine exactly where the problem is then a scan or X-ray.
We’ll both my instructor and vet have said she’s too lame to be worked or ridden so to me that’s pretty bad.
If I cannot return her then of course I’ll get it properly diagnosed and treated. She’s getting lots of attention and love, I have three pony mad girls, and being well cared for.

 

[4kids2dogs1pony]

you keep saying this but what PRECISELY did the vet disclose to the seller? did they hand over the vetting sheet? did they say the pony was permanently lame, slightly lame, stiff? what did they disclose. Did they disclose all the vetting details? If your vet couldn't diagnose an existing long term condition when you called him how did the vetting vet do so without further tests etc?

If you are going to prove the seller miss-sold to you then you are going to have to provide that evidence as I cannot see any other way you can prove the seller miss-represented the pony to you.

How can I provide evidence about a vetting that a person I don’t know or have contact details for had done? How can I provide evidence what the vet told the seller in a conversation that I wasn’t present at?
The seller told me precisely what I’ve stated on here, that she failed the vetting due to a ‘slightly stiff leg probably caused by being brought back into work after being left in a field’ I only have her word for it.
My vet hasn’t diagnosed exactly what’s causing the lameness without further tests but is confident it’s been a long term issue because of muscle wastage in her hind quarters. I don’t know what else I can say!