Mis sold a pony?

[Louisejane]

Hi all, when it comes to horses, I don't have much luck so I'm feeling a little silly today! I'm looking for some advice here as I don't know where to turn.

We bought a pony for my nervous daughter of ten. We have been looking a very long time for the right one and we thought we had found her. The advert for the horse included "a safe sensible ride who works well in the arena and hasn't a bad bone in her body" It also stated "no vices" which is a near impossible with horses, I know!

We trialled her twice at the owners, my daughter jumped her, hacked her out and did all the usual flatwork, the pony was ideal and I can honestly say she did not put a foot wrong so her owner delivered her last Thursday.

Now I know its not quite a week and every horse needs time to settle but this pony is dangerous!! I asked the owner how long she thought we should leave her and she said she would be fine to ride the next night.

On bringing her in, she was bargy and a nightmare to tack up but we took it slow thinking that she was just nervous in new surroundings. As soon as my daughter got on the pony, it kept stopping and backing up, if my daughter put her leg on then she would buck, if she didn't put her leg on then she would keep backing up. Eventually, the pony threw a huge buck and dumped my daughter in the arena. An older more experienced rider got on her and she also got dumped after the pony reared and then bucked her. We didn't have a whip and both girls were only using leg aids.

I spoke to the owner that night and she said that the pony had never ever bucked, reared or kicked and she must not have settled, she recommended that the next day we lunge her to get her used to the arena and put my daughter on the lunge line.

Our instructor put her on the lunge line and the pony went nuts, aiming a huge kick at the instructors head and narrowly missing her head. We worked through it and my daughter rode her but again, the pony kept backing up and threatening to rear if my daughter asked her to walk on. My daughter got her to do the basics and then ended the lesson early. I updated the owner that night and the owner confessed that even though she recommended we lunge her that she had never actually lunged her and had no idea what she would be like!! She also went back on her statement that the pony never bucked and said she did buck when a whip was used on her, we never used one.

Sunday was much of the same, only by this point my daughter was too scared to get on her so the experienced girl rode her and had to fight her all the way. The owner just kept saying she hasn't settled. I rested her on Monday as I felt like it was too much for the pony and last night the experienced girl got on her again.

It was horrendous!! The pony was playing up the whole time, throwing huge bucks and backing up and going onto her back legs. When the girl asked her to walk forward she virtually ran backwards, slamming into the other horse in the arena, when she reached the fence she started to rear, very almost going backwards over the fence with the rider on her.

I don't know what to do, the owner refuses to come and take her back as she says she no longer has the money and just says she hasn't settled.

The vet witnessed last nights episode and was shocked that she had been sold to us as a childs pony, he said he would be willing to provide a statement to last nights behaviour and recommended I give the owner 7 days to return the money or I should go to small claims court.

This pony has supposed to have had novices on her all her life and done pony club, xc and sj as well as taken nervous riders to the beach!

There is no way on earth I would sell her on as I would never forgive myself if anything happened to another little girl, its more good luck than anything else that no one has been hurt with us.

Is there anything I can do or is it just my stupid fault for taking the pony without trialling?

Many thanks

 

[AmyMay]

So, first things first.

What tack are you using?
And as I'm assuming the vetting threw up no issues, get the bloods run.

Apart from riding the pony at the viewings - what else did you do with the pony?

Horses/ponies can take time to settle - but her behaviour does sound rather extreme.....

Make sure you have a copy of the advert, just in case this does head down the legal route.

Also - did you take an instructor along with you when viewing the pony????

 

[3Beasties]

Was the pony vetted?

It's a difficult one as it hasn't been long so the pony may still be unsettled (although that is quite extreme behavior) so may well improve over the next week or so but I also feel that the longer you leave it the less chance you'll have of getting your money back.

I've got a pony that is brilliant at my yard but turns into a devil when she goes out on loan, I'm sure she's settle but unfortunately it seems to take her months and understandably the parents don't want to wait that long if children are involved. Saying that mine was always fine to ride, just a complete cow bag on the ground!

 

[lcharles]

Maybe give her a week of grooming, getting used to her new routine and learning to trust you (but at the same time persist getting your money back!) after a week she should be more settled and used to you and your daughter. Maybe she's testing you out? Obviously an ideal childs pony wouldnt do this but most horses will see what they can get away with to an extent!

Is the tack the tack you bought her with? x Does it fit? x

Has her feed changed? x

Its harder as ts for a 10 year old and you dont want to knock her confidence x

Its good that the vet is backing your side and willing to assist in helping get the money back x

 

[Goldenstar]

Get the bloods run if you you have access to legal advice cheaply get some or use the BHS legal advice service if you have gold membership.
I don't know why the pony is behaving as it is but it's not something to muck about with get legal advice fast get the statement from the vet and get thing moving now its not your issue that the owner has not got the money if you can legally return the pony do so quickly.
Don't risk a child getting hurt over this .
It could that something in the ponys past means it has issues with its new home and it may settle but better safe than sorry.

 

[Louisejane]

Thank you.

She has come with the tack that we trialled her with. Unfortuantely, the instructor did not come with us to trial her but we video'd it all and my daughter did great on her, popping 70cm jumped, fillers, spreads, no problems at all. We hacked her out through woodland and back down a busy dual carriage way. I cannot understand the enormous difference and feel totally stupid!

My daughter is terrified of getting on her and to be honest I won't let her back on her, she is so dangerous, I honestly thought she was going to squish the girl on her last night.

I'm scared if I leave it too long then the owner will accuse us of making her behave like this, I do understand that they take time to settle but she's just too dangerous.

My daughter brings her in and grooms her in her stable but she hates even this! She throws her head up and its a battle in itself when it comes to tacking up. My daughter groomed and tacked her up at the trial and she was so good!

This is a copy of the advert that the owner has removed from almost every website.

**** is a lovely sweet pony, that doesnt have a bad bone in her body. She loves being groomed and fussed over and is always first at the gate to greet you. Sunshine has no vices at all and is a pleasure to own in every way.
**** is very laid back and is a nice safe ride, but at the same time she has a lovely jump and is a great all rounder. She works well in the arena and over poles, grids and courses of jumps. She doesnt look at any fillers, water trays etc and loves doing bits of cross country.
**** has a lovely soft mouth and is easy to stop. She is quite haoppy to hack out alone but is also sensible even when in open fields in big groups.
**** is good as gold for everything. She loads easily onto a wagon or trailer and travels like a dream whether alone or with others. She’ll happily go on and off the box at shows. She is great to shoe, worm, bath, clip, catch etc.
**** is a fully papered and passported welsh sec c and is up to date with everything, blacksmith, dentist, worming etc.
Her price includes all of her tack. Good home very important as she really is such a sweetheart and a pleasure to own.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

That sounds like a nightmare situation- Personally I would get a solicitors letter written (£50) and state the issues and ask how the previous owner sees fit to solve it. One of the demands should be your money back.

Saying that I would give the mare a week or so to settle in to a new yard. My pony I have owned for 10 years he's a little bugger and was bought as a childs pony- he really isn't! Can you move to a quieter yard- or try to get lessons on your own- It is a massive ask from you to expect a horse to work in a busy environment in an area they don't know with horses they have never met after 12 hours!

 

[Natz88]

So, first things first.

What tack are you using?
And as I'm assuming the vetting threw up no issues, get the bloods run.

Apart from riding the pony at the viewings - what else did you do with the pony?

Horses/ponies can take time to settle - but her behaviour does sound rather extreme.....

Make sure you have a copy of the advert, just in case this does head down the legal route.

Ditto this.

When I was younger & looking for a pony we went to view one & when we arrived it had already been ridden, which my mum questioned. Anyway I rode it was everything we was after, but we asked to have it on a couple of weeks trial which we was allowed. So in the trial we rang them just to see if it was ok to take him to a show. So we took him to a show to which he was being a right prat so my mum got on him & 10 mins of being on him she was air lifted to hospital. So my mum rang the owner from hospital bed to say he is not suitable & we then found out that the person getting rid wasn't actually the owner & she was getting rid for her friend who he had also put in hospital so you can imagine my mums reaction (but won't go into that ) they didn't want the pony back either & said we could have him for next to nothing, but he was no good for me at the time & someone on the yard we was on had him & he turne dinto a fab driving pony. So it's not a nice postion to be in & I really hope you get it sorted for the sake of your daughter & the pony.

 

[Tammytoo]

Can you contact one of her previous owners (not the one you bought her from),to see if she has doen this before? details should be on the passport.

I would also be asking myself if it was pain related. This is pretty extreme behaviour, did you vet not suggest she be checked over? If she was given a hefty dose of painkiller when your daughter first rode her it would have explained why she was not displaying such dangerous behaviour.

Did you have her vetted and did your vet take bloods. Have her teeth been checked?

Get a good qualified chiropractor to check her over and also to check that her saddle is not hurting her. Horses are pretty tolerant of low grade pain, but once it gets unbearable they only have one way to tell us!

My son's pony changed almost overnight a month after we got her, napping and rearing. She was treated by a McTimony chiropractor and after a couple of follow-up treatments, we had our lovely pony back on track.

 

[AmyMay]

Was she vetted?

 

[Littlelegs]

Have you made any changes to her routine? Such as if she previously lived out & is now kept in?
Only other thing I can think of is if your daughter was nervous any chance that she was maybe holding the reins tight enough to make it run backwards? I know you said same thing happened with a more experienced rider but i'm guessing that was another child who could also have done the same? Not suggesting they were sat yanking its mouth or its behaviors ok. But if the pony is unsettled & used to a light contact, a nervous child tensing up could explain the running backwards bit.

 

[be positive]

How old is she ? has she done any PC or shows in the previous homes, if she has done the reaction does sound very extreme, how are you keeping her is she now in a mixed group or stabled which may be unsettling her.

I have ponies in to sell sometimes and expect the been there done it ones to settle straight away both on arriving here and when moving to their new homes, they always do with maybe the odd teething problem but never being unrideable.

 

[xspiralx]

What a nightmare situation, poor you.

The 'not settled' argument really doesn't wash with me. You might expect the pony to be slightly anxious or a little more fresh than usual, but not dangerous rearing, bucking and kicking.

In any case, this pony has apparently been out to shows, so should be used to working in a different environment.

If the sellers really are genuine then they ought to be willing to take the pony back to find a more suitable home. I'd be very suspicious of the fact that they are insisting it is just that the pony is unsettled - considering they make so much of the fact that the pony is a sweetheart, good home essential etc etc in the ad - the last owners should be seriously worried about such a change in character - and should at least be offering to come ride the pony themselves and see if they can help.

I'd take the vets advice - video her behaviour, get the statement from your vet and say that unless they take her back and give you a refund you will go to the small claims court.

 

[Cuffey]

I note the sellers are involved in Pony Club but there is no mention of Pony Club in the advert.

Suggest you contact the Chief Instructor or DC for a chat initially just ask if Sunshine was ridden by a member then go from there

http://branches.pcuk.org/braesofderwentsouth/contact-us/

 

[HazyXmas]

Poor you, what a horrible position to be in. I'm afraid that the seller not wanting to take her back makes me think that she knows that there is something wrong with the pony.

IMO it is not unreasonable to expect a pony that has been sold as suitable for a nervous 10 yr old child, & has, according to the advert, been out to shows & happily done xc, to have a lesson in a strange school with other horses present.

I would be writing her a letter stating that vet has witnessed the behaviour & that unless she returns your money & takes the pony back within 7 days you will be taking legal advice.

Good luck, i hope that you do find a really nice pony for your daughter soon.

 

[s4sugar]

How long had they owned this pony - not long enough to be able to advertise her as the chestnut she is rather than strawberry roan?
If such a basic thing is wrong in the advert the rest is not likely to be accurate.

 

[ponypilotmum]

The 'not settled' argument doesn't wash with me either. To me, if it can't settle to a point of being able to amble round the school safely after a few days then it's not right for us. I've given them months before, and they don't settle any more really than in the first week. The exceptions being youngsters or something more flightly. A child's pony is a different kettle of fish and should be calm and relaxed in a lesson scenario.

 

[NeverSayNever]

I note the sellers are involved in Pony Club but there is no mention of Pony Club in the advert.

Suggest you contact the Chief Instructor or DC for a chat initially just ask if Sunshine was ridden by a member then go from there

http://branches.pcuk.org/braesofderwentsouth/contact-us/

this is exactly what i was going to say...

if this ends up not working out for you, a tip for next time is to ring up the PC,local RC, RI's and find out history about the pony , get references! Also google is your friend... search the pony's name and previous owner under previous comp results etc and see what comes up.

i also agree with luckylady - when buying a childs schoolmaster , pc type Id expect to be able to travel it home and get straight on on the school.

 

[Patterdale]

If if was a horse for myself or any capable adult I would give it a chance to settle.

But to be quite honest I wouldnt muck about with a childs pony. Not settled is one thing but this is extreme.

She's already changed her story so I wouldn't trust them at all. You really can't muck about with a kids pony. A good one wouldn't behave like this, however much it 'hadn't settled.'

Ask again for your money back and take any vets notes etc that he says he will give to verify behaviour.

If they refuse send a solicitors letter then take them to small claims.

I wouldn't waste time grooming it etc as you risk your child getting hurt and it's just really not worth it. You've done enough bow and had enough different and experienced people on it/witnessing it to prove your point.

I do a lot of teaching for the Pony Club and unfortunately this sort of thing is not rare.

But it's not your problem and personally I would be getting rid and getting my money back asap.

 

[Honey08]

Ponies do take time to settle. Our first pony, a section A was as good as gold, but would have been a bit like that if pushed too much too soon. Once she felt settled and relaxed she was as good as gold..but if worried would panic and "fight back". Not to that extreme though, and I wouldn't have sold her as completely bombproof etc.

I can understand an owner saying they had spent the money and couldn't take it back, but from the "much loved" angle in the ad, I would expect the owner to come over and see the problem, perhaps have someone ride the pony.. If it was my much loved pony that "must find a good home" then I would be upset that it hadn't settled.. So from that angle it is a bit suspicious..

I agree with the videoing of the bad behaviour, getting a letter from the vet and your instructor saying they do not consider the pony safe or well described in the advert. Say that you will be proceeding with legal action if previous owner continues to deny issues..

 

[Kaylum]

I would do everything that has already been suggested but what checking up on you did they do. If the home was so important did they ask where she was going and did you use their vet or yours for the vetting?

 

[piebaldsparkle]

I note the sellers are involved in Pony Club but there is no mention of Pony Club in the advert.

Suggest you contact the Chief Instructor or DC for a chat initially just ask if Sunshine was ridden by a member then go from there

http://branches.pcuk.org/braesofderwentsouth/contact-us/

Interesting that as another older advert for a grey states he is a fantastic little pony club pony, so does throw up questions.

I also note the pony is quite young (6yrs), so how much experience carrying novices could she really have?

 

[Littlelegs]

Not seen the ad but if ponies only 6 that does change things. Like others, I'd expect a schoolmaster type for a novice to settle in reasonably quickly with maybe a few small hiccups, but a 6yr old isn't my idea of a schoolmaster & I wouldn't expect it to arrive & get on with it.

 

[Cuffey]

Just in case it is needed link to Cached advert
http://www.horsemart.co.uk/print_ad.php?id=220438

 

[be positive]

Interesting that if you google the number on the ad this pony was advertised for sale as a 4 year old for a little more money, it should have gone up in value since then or been sold within the PC branch if as good as it is supposed to be.

As for references the seller is very involved with the PC so a,ny references were likely to be favourable.

 

[OWLIE185]

I would suggest that you ask the seller to come over and ride the pony at your place.
I would also search out the ponys history on www.nedonline.co.uk and determine how long the selers have owned it for.
You can either make a claim through the small claims court or get a specialist equine solicitor to act on your behalf to claim back the money for the pony and any costs you incur in keeping it.
Contacting the local pony club is also a good idear.
Horses will change when they are re-located (different surroundins, smells noises) or ridden by someone else as some of them are very sensitive souls.

 

[Littlelegs]

From a legal point of view though the ad doesn't make any mention of the pony being ideal for a novice or a school mistress, & £1500 is not much for a real pc saintly sort. I don't mean its not possible the sellers said otherwise in person, or that its morally ok to sell a child an unsuitable pony, but I don't think legally the advert alone proves it was mis sold.

 

[PandorasJar]

As others have said. Tack etc.

Perhaps if the owner seems genuine asking them to come ride?

I think it depends on history too, if she's been with the same owner and same yard all her short life then she will be feeling very unsettled and I'd give her longer getting a bond to be honest. I'd want to make her feel that I wasn't going to be working all the time and groom, handle, get out etc but not necesarrily ridden each time.

I while back I trialled a 4yo that was sold as perfect to do in everyway, hacking out alone etc and not a bad bone. I wasn't expecting schoolmaster but he second I got on the thing tried chucking me, tanking etc and owner hopped back on and perfect. He'd known both of them and trusted, the second I got on he was completely unsettled... they didn't lie, it's just that the horse was still young and he didn't know me. Had I played around and bonded first I'd probably have been fine... My youngster is very nervous and prancy around people until she knows their smell and then she's bold as anything! She'll get over it in time.

I'd have gone a bit older and more experienced for a nervous childs pony personally. Perhaps telling the seller that unfortunately it's not worked out and the pony isn't ideal, then learn from this and get a 'been there done that' pony... doesn't have to be ancient or a plod, but I have to say I don't think it will be as cheap as the current one as they're snapped up quickly as they are worth their weight in gold.

Pan

 

[Fairytale]

Not sure if its me seeing things but the pony Cuffey highlights in the Horsemart ad is also advertised on Preloved but in a different location/price etc but states suited to a competitive experienced child rider........

But, is this the pony discussed in OP's original thread??? The wording is so very similar but just seems a tad odd to me

 

[PandorasJar]

Interesting that if you google the number on the ad this pony was advertised for sale as a 4 year old for a little more money, it should have gone up in value since then or been sold within the PC branch if as good as it is supposed to be.

As for references the seller is very involved with the PC so a,ny references were likely to be favourable.

We've knocked prices on some down drastically over time. They've actually been getting better, but we've been getting broker! Sometimes you sell for a little less for a better/faster home. One out of very good bloodlines will be going for a fair chunk lower than he's worth as it opens doors for a home who can afford him and work to his potential rather than just someone who can cough up the cash! Though our homes are always vetted very well to make sure we are happy where they go. And we're mugs so would always ask for first refusal however far in the future and would take back if not suitable in a heartbeat. They could also trial at our yard for a fair length of time.


Pan