Mis sold a pony?

[Copperpot]

I don't think being unsettled is any reason for that type of behaviour. I have always ridden any horse I've bought the next day and expected them to be well behaved. Maybe a bit spooky etc but not rearing etc.

I feel for you. I hope you can get your money back or find out what is wrong with the pony.

 

[lcharles]

''From a legal point of view though the ad doesn't make any mention of the pony being ideal for a novice or a school mistress, & £1500 is not much for a real pc saintly sort. I don't mean its not possible the sellers said otherwise in person, or that its morally ok to sell a child an unsuitable pony, but I don't think legally the advert alone proves it was mis sold. ''

It says thats shes a 'nice safe ride' though, which clearly she isnt x

 

[Meowy Catkin]

On bringing her in, she was bargy and a nightmare to tack up but we took it slow thinking that she was just nervous in new surroundings.

TBH, I would have looked at the pony and thought, 'she's tense, my daughter is a nervous rider - no way are we riding the pony tonight as it would be dangerous.'

I know that there are many that dismiss 'settling in' as tosh and maybe with an older pony that has been boxed to lots of different comps, you could expect to ride straight away. However this pony is young and was obviously not 'settled', she may go back to the calm pony that you viewed in time - I honestly can't judge as I don't know the pony.

I would like to say that my own mare had a huge change of character when I moved her. It was so extreme that if I hadn't already owned her - I'd have sworn that she was drugged (far worse behaviour than your pony). She just needed time to relax in her new home, once that happened she returned to her former ways.

Try to get the old owner to come to your yard and help you. If they are genuine, they should be more than willing to do this.

Lastly, the safety of your daughter is the most important thing here, so please be careful.

 

[be positive]

We've knocked prices on some down drastically over time. They've actually been getting better, but we've been getting broker! Sometimes you sell for a little less for a better/faster home. One out of very good bloodlines will be going for a fair chunk lower than he's worth as it opens doors for a home who can afford him and work to his potential rather than just someone who can cough up the cash! Though our homes are always vetted very well to make sure we are happy where they go. And we're mugs so would always ask for first refusal however far in the future and would take back if not suitable in a heartbeat. They could also trial at our yard for a fair length of time.


Pan

I agree the price is not always relevant it is the home offered but in this case I do find it strange that after 2 years the ad is almost the same, it has been in a PC home with no mention in either ad of doing PC activities.

Another thought is that all the photos seem to be either on the same day or in the same fields, there are none from out and about, very rare nowdays to not get some from days out, photographers even go to PC camp now to capture those fun days.

Whenever I have sold a pony almost the first question people in PC ask is has it been to rallies and camp if that is not in the ad, it is a priority to the buyers that a pony will go out and behave in a new environment, it is possible that this pony does not like going somewhere new and appears to have been in the same home for several years.

 

[Littlelegs]

'nice safe ride' though doesn't necessarily mean good for a novice. A nice safe ride for a competitive teen who's ridden all their life & nice safe ride for a novice child can be two entirely different horses. I'm not excusing selling a child a pony that could harm them, or at the least dent their confidence & waste their time, but the advert alone doesn't prove anything.

 

[Louisejane]

Thanks for all your replies, I feel utterly stupid in getting myself and my daughter in this situation, I have a habit of taking people on their word and am quickly learning not to do this in the horse world which is a shame for the genuine honest sellers out there.

The pony is on hoofon and it states clearly that she "has no vices at all". I asked about rallies and pony club days and was told that she travels all over with Pony Club as her Mum is the treasurer for their local PC. She even said that they use her for the nervous riders as she is so calm in different situations.

They said they have owned her since she was 2 and broke her in so she has been with them all her life and I feel desperately sorry for her as she is so unhappy with the change resulting in the behaviour but as our instructor said, if she has travelled to different events and had different riders on her there is no excuse for this level of behaviour. The seller told me that she had two other families wanting her but wanted her to go to us as she cared to much about her, she wanted the right home. If that was my pony that was so unsettled, I would be back like a shot trying to sort it out.

I have written to her to say that as the behaviour is becoming worse and I would like her to arrange to come over and ride her or refund my money and take the pony back. I have told her that we have a witness statement from the vet and that I video's the behaviour last night. I know time is needed to allow her to settle but there is no way in God's earth my daughter is getting back on her after we've seen what she can do! My daughter is so much more important to me.

I may well just have to take it as a lesson learnt, I can't even sell her on as there is no way I would live with myself if she did this to someone else child and they got hurt, I just don't know what to do.

 

[AmyMay]

The pony is on hoofon and it states clearly that she "has no vices at all". I asked about rallies and pony club days and was told that she travels all over with Pony Club as her Mum is the treasurer for their local PC. She even said that they use her for the nervous riders as she is so calm in different situations.

They said they have owned her since she was 2 and broke her in so she has been with them all her life and I feel desperately sorry for her as she is so unhappy with the change resulting in the behaviour but as our instructor said, if she has travelled to different events and had different riders on her there is no excuse for this level of behaviour. The seller told me that she had two other families wanting her but wanted her to go to us as she cared to much about her, she wanted the right home. If that was my pony that was so unsettled, I would be back like a shot trying to sort it out.

I have written to her to say that as the behaviour is becoming worse and I would like her to arrange to come over and ride her or refund my money and take the pony back. I have told her that we have a witness statement from the vet and that I video's the behaviour last night. I know time is needed to allow her to settle but there is no way in God's earth my daughter is getting back on her after we've seen what she can do! My daughter is so much more important to me.

I may well just have to take it as a lesson learnt, I can't even sell her on as there is no way I would live with myself if she did this to someone else child and they got hurt, I just don't know what to do.

You still don't mention a vetting, so I guess you didn't have one.

You have not described any vices, just poor behaviour.

Your instructor (I would suggest) probably doesn't know what they're talking about.

Poor pony, poor kid and poor you.

Go get some good sound legal advice. Good luck.

 

[Louisejane]

This is the advert I responded to which states that she has no vices at all and is laid back and a nice safe ride. I just feel that she is so much the opposite that I must have some comeback if it comes to the courts?

http://www.hoofon.co.uk/ads/all-rounder-horse-6-yrs-4-mths-13-2-hh-chestnut-roan-county-durham/

 

[Littlelegs]

I'd tell them if they had other families interested they shouldn't have any trouble taking her back. If all else fails though no reason you can't sell her on provided your honest, an older teen who's parents don't have the cash for a top pony or who enjoys a challenge may be just what the pony needs.

 

[Louisejane]

No, I didn't get a vetting which was a bad move on my part.

Do bucking, rearing and kicking not count as vices?

 

[AmyMay]

No, I didn't get a vetting which was a bad move on my part.

Do bucking, rearing and kicking not count as vices?

No, they are behavioural issues.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

To me vices are cribbing, windsucking, boxwalking etc... rather than undesirable ridden behaviour (bucking, napping, rearing etc...) which any horse can exibit, given the right circumstances (pain, excitement, distress, fear etc...).

 

[NeverSayNever]

any pony can throw a buck but rearing yes, i would consider that a vice! A ridden vice! You cant guarantee any pony wont occasionally lift its front feet but established rearing is different.

i see she is a sec c - welshies are soooo clever and not always idea first ponies. My Sec D mare is a saint... I trust her so much I rode her to 8 months pregnant and she has never put a foot wrong, bar the odd normal spook and being strong at times. Her temperament is worth its weight in gold. So much so I put a friends young novice son on her - he is 12 and has actually had rides on my last horse, off lead rein and been fine in walk and trot. My mare took all of 2 mins to sus him out and took off with him Im afraid She turned into a right cow bag with him! Taught me a valuable lesson and thank goodness, he was ok.

At the end of the day, your daughters safety is paramount and if they wont take the pony back id cut your losses and sell sold as seen from the field, get your RI to sell it for you or sell to a dealer , accept the hit youl take on it and move on. We all make mistakes... ive done the same buying for myself. Chin up. Noones hurt, thats the main thing.

 

[Freddie19]

Thanks for all your replies, I feel utterly stupid in getting myself and my daughter in this situation, I have a habit of taking people on their word and am quickly learning not to do this in the horse world which is a shame for the genuine honest sellers out there.

The pony is on hoofon and it states clearly that she "has no vices at all". I asked about rallies and pony club days and was told that she travels all over with Pony Club as her Mum is the treasurer for their local PC. She even said that they use her for the nervous riders as she is so calm in different situations.

They said they have owned her since she was 2 and broke her in so she has been with them all her life and I feel desperately sorry for her as she is so unhappy with the change resulting in the behaviour but as our instructor said, if she has travelled to different events and had different riders on her there is no excuse for this level of behaviour. The seller told me that she had two other families wanting her but wanted her to go to us as she cared to much about her, she wanted the right home. If that was my pony that was so unsettled, I would be back like a shot trying to sort it out.

I have written to her to say that as the behaviour is becoming worse and I would like her to arrange to come over and ride her or refund my money and take the pony back. I have told her that we have a witness statement from the vet and that I video's the behaviour last night. I know time is needed to allow her to settle but there is no way in God's earth my daughter is getting back on her after we've seen what she can do! My daughter is so much more important to me.

I may well just have to take it as a lesson learnt, I can't even sell her on as there is no way I would live with myself if she did this to someone else child and they got hurt, I just don't know what to do.

Feel sorry for you and your daughter, feel sorry for pony. A couple of things stand out for me A: this is an expensive lesson for you, always vet, and always check with pony club DC, if it is stated that pony was used for pony club. B: if pony was with them from 2 years old, broken in by them, then yes it is going to be completely thrown by moving home, I can understand that, I would imagine you can understand it to. It changes routine, friends etc etc.

 

[be positive]

The ad is the same one that shows on Horsemart and similar to the one from 2 years ago.

I think you should contact the seller again, in writing if that is easiest, state that the pony is very unsettled, behaving extremely badly and is not as described in the ads.

State that if she does not want you to to take further action you expect her to come, with her daughter and see them handle and ride her, if they had other people that wanted her they should be able to take her home and sell to the others.

Ask if she has been given a calmer of any type on a regular basis, it could be that she has been on something and with the move it has made the adjustment more difficult.
Gather as much info as possible if you do want to go down the legal route, contact someone from the PC and ask for statements of the ponys behaviour in the past, get several opinions including a parent or two that may just remember her.

As for where you go if there are no resolutions this way, probably the best would be to send her for an assessment to a professional yard to see if they feel she is viable to sell on to a more experienced home. It is always sad to feel that the pony may end up suffering through being sold, I would always take one back that was not working out, as I feel it is not fair to leave a pony in this situation.

 

[zaminda]

TBH, my friend had her horse vetted, and it turned into a lunatic. The vet said it wasn't really worth getting the bloods checked, as there are so many drugs that can be used it wasn't economically viable.
He eventually took the woman to court and won.
Your situation is a little different in that they have said other people were interested, and they have had her since a youngster, so I am surprised they haven't been more helpful. It stuns me how some people are with selling kids ponies, you would think being a parent they would be a bit more honest, but they aren't.
I would try talking to her again, and also talk to the local DC, who might then talk to the old owner, and nudge her into doing the right thing.

 

[hollyandivy123]

was this a private or commercial sale i only say this as if you Google the mobile number from the horsemart advert you come up with a stud which is run as a commercial operation and therefore might be under trading standard rules? just another avenue for you to have a look at maybe

 

[HazyXmas]

It's an interesting question, what constitutes a vice?

I would consider rearing to definitely be a vice, but what about kicking? Door kicking is considered a vice so why isn't kicking out at people?

They say that she is good as gold in every way, which clearly she isn't, but i agree the advert is very 'woolly'. Are these people dealers or a private family?

A very good idea to make a few call to the local PC & see if anyone has ever seen her at any rallies, shows or camp.

Maybe also worth asking pc DC if she knows of any older schoolmaster types for your daughter.

 

[Louisejane]

Thanks again everyone for your help and advice.

The only worry I have going down the PC research route is that they are heavily involved and the sellers mum is the treasurer. I have looked on their website and cannot see any pictures or mention of her on there but apparantly the seller had Pony Club rallies on her property last year.

I would have thought that she was sold privately but yes, she was owned by the owner of the stud farm which is where we bought her from so possibly she was a business?

 

[AmyMay]

It's an interesting question, what constitutes a vice?

Vices are clearly defined as weaving, windsucking, cribbing.

I would consider rearing to definitely be a vice

Rearing is defined as a behavioural problem.

 

[Patterdale]

I'm not sure how getting it vetted would have helped unless you had bloods taken, and that's not really standard practice for ponies.

Plus there are many ways of making a pony seem v calm without drugs, ie withholding water.

'unsettled' is no excuse for that amount of bad behaviour.

Plus I don't see how people can say that your instructor 'has no idea' without meeting them or being there!

I wouldn't give in on this one, I would fight it. I have bought and sold many ponies and there's no excuse for thus amount of bad behaviour. IMO it must have done it with them at some time.

Would have been slightly more believable had it never left the farm before but as it's apparently been to PC and had lots of different nervous riders on it it should be able to be calmly tacked up at least!

 

[AmyMay]

I would have thought that she was sold privately but yes, she was owned by the owner of the stud farm which is where we bought her from so possibly she was a business?

Start with trading standards, and go from there.

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

The only worry I have going down the PC research route is that they are heavily involved and the sellers mum is the treasurer. I have looked on their website and cannot see any pictures or mention of her on there but apparantly the seller had Pony Club rallies on her property last year.

this woman sold you a horse that you consider to be threatening the life of your child, and you are worried about insulting her credibility in the PC by asking a few simple questions. In the nicest possible way- I think this woman might have seen you coming.

I don't mean to be harsh or rude- but quite bluntly- grow a pair and deal with this situation and learn from it, or it will happen again!

 

[Patterdale]

Sent too soon - for the future I would ALWAYS get DC and instructor references for ponies, and I don't believe anything can be a schoolmaster at 6.

I hope you get it sorted, it's a tough situation. I wouldn't give in though!

 

[AmyMay]

I'm not sure how getting it vetted would have helped unless you had bloods taken, and that's not really standard practice for ponies.

I was curious about the vetting precisely because of the bloods (had it been five stage). Both 2 and 5 stage vettings are quite common practice for ponies as well as horses......

 

[Louisejane]

, I've been told to grow a pair numerous times the last few days!

I wasn't worried about insulting her credibility, more the fact that I might come up against a few brick walls while digging for info.

I've found an equine legal specialist near me so have made an appointment to speak with them and will go down the trading standards route too.

Thanks again

 

[AmyMay]

this woman sold you a horse that you consider to be threatening the life of your child, and you are worried about insulting her credibility in the PC by asking a few simple questions???

Got to agree OP.

 

[Patterdale]

Ditto Tinsel Trouble.

Think of it this way, if it's as you say it is, they have taken your hard-earned cash and left you with a dangerous pony. I would get mad and get even!

Don't mean to sound preachy but people only walk all over you if you let them!

Hope you get it sorted

 

[trefnantblackknight]

My 2nd pony took nearly 2 years to settle or get used to me - when i tried him he did buck and did do a small rear and owners were very shocked when he did that! i was a nervous rider! but we still bought him!

He put me in hospital maybe five times and i had countless brusises cuts!

But now he is the most perfect pony as described in his advert 9 years ago!!

My mum wanted to sell him or send him back but i was worried what would happen to him as you couldnt even brush/catch him
!

If your daughter doesn't want to keep the pony .. i would ask the owner to take the pony back and maybe you could set you an agreeement and she pay you back in installemnts or if you need the money to buy another pony go to the courts if they cant pay you back in full!

 

[HazyXmas]

I thought that it was standard practise for bloods to be taken at both 2 & 5 stage vettings? We've sold 5 ponies over the last 3 years & of the 3 that had vettings, 2 five stage & 1 two stage, bloods were taken from all ponies including a very, very cheapy one.

I would always make sure that my vet took blood, make sure that the seller knows this will be happening & always, always be present at the vetting.

In my experience with DC's they are always honest about ponies but very careful what they say, you will need to ask very direct questions that require a yes/no answer.

Good luck.