Mis sold a pony?

[shandy133]

It sounds like a terrible situation....
it sounds to me like the mare has had a totoal change on nature.... but is this really a case of missold? or just an awful situation where this pony is distressed.
I have seen many situations like this, and know how you feel. but i also know how the seller will be feeling - if she is genuine.... if the pony was missold, you would have seen some kind of quirk/bit of bad behaviour showing during your trials... even if it was a just look in her eye, or a reluctance in some way.
i think its best to watch the videos closely, with someone who is totally neutral in the situation... maybe a well know, highly reccommended instructor in your area.

The advert of her looks lovely, with such an extreme change in her nature both on ground and in saddle, how could they "hide" it if she was that good to try but really is naughty? just a thought...

let us know how it gets on, what a shame your duaghter has been put off.

 

[Littlelegs]

It's quite possible for a 6yr old to change in a new home with new owners & a novice child. I have a 23 yr old & a 5 yr old. Both good at home & when we take them out. But while the older will go anywhere with anyone & still be the same pony she is at home, I am pretty sure the 5yr old, in the same circumstances as the ops pony would behave equally badly. Which is why as a genuine person I would happily let the older one go off with a novice child, but I wouldn't dream of doing the same with the 5yr old. Neither of mine being sold anyway, but I think it illustrates how a pony can quickly change, & why the sellers have some responsibility for selling an unsuitable pony. Whether that's morally or legally is yet to be discovered.

 

[Honey08]

For what its worth, I don't think a blood test would have shown doping - its just a young pony in a new, novice home. I don't think the pony was sold to a suitable home, or that the previous owners are being helpful..

OP, at least you've got someone who can ride the pony and show it off if you do need to sell it on... which may well be the case. That was exactly what we did to sort out our welsh section A dragon - had an older experienced rider get on her and get her working.. This brought her round completely in our situation. See if you can get your brave 13yr old to do more with her so that she could be sold on as a second pony that jumps etc.

 

[Miss L Toe]

There must me someone out there who wants a challenge? As my thread proves without a doubt, I am green within the world of horses so I guess I'm asking what would you do?

Difficult situation, I would tackle it on several levels:
1] I think you must write to the person who sold you the pony [do you know her name and address] and do you have a receipt, with the letter enclose a copy of the advert, and mention what you have done and how the vendor has responded, you need to say the pony is not as advertised and is not fit for purpose, and you want your money back plus expenses, remind them they are horse traders. Mention Trading Standards, tel them you will contact TS in seven days if the pony is not removed and expenses plus cost returned [no cheques].
If, at any time the vendor claims this is a PRIVATE sale, threaten to advise Inland Revenue, as they are very keen on hammering people who skim off profits in this way.
2] Leave the pony in a field if she is settled, you don't want your daughter to be riding it, now or ever, it seems, but at least she may be able to pat it and stroke it.
3] Trading Standards, yes that is the one port of call.
4] You may be able to ask someone to help with handling the pony, and give you some advice, as it may end up going to a project home, that is to say someone with a lot of experience of dealing with difficult ponies, though it seems to be behaving very badly.
What makes me very suspicious is the time this pony seems to have been for sale, not sure if I have picked up on this accurately. Has it been travelled to PC and then never competed, weird!

 

[Louisejane]

Thank you again for all your posts.

The key is seeing if I can class her as a business or a private seller as the pony was bought from her premises which is a business in her name. I'm just not sure how I could prove it was a business.

I have emailed her today to let her know how unhappy her pony is and to ask if she can help in anyway. Whether its to come to us and have her usual rider take her round the arena to see if it is us or not or to return the money and take her home or sell her on our behalf. An equine solicitor told me it was better to fight over money rather than go for a mis sold pony in the courts, its just so distressing seeing how unhappy she is.

Trading standards have advised me to send a letter recorded delivery outlining what we bought from her and what she is actually like and to request money back, I have to contact them again if I receive no satisfactory response.

I have contacted the PC which the previous owners family are heavily involved with and the DC said she will see what she can find and get back to me but didn't know off the top of her head.

The pony was absolutely lovely when we trialled her, but its like we have a different pony with us. The minute she is brought in, she has a look in her eye that you can see she is unhappy and not wanting to do anything. I honestly can't believe that it is the same pony

 

[Louisejane]

What makes me very suspicious is the time this pony seems to have been for sale, not sure if I have picked up on this accurately. Has it been travelled to PC and then never competed, weird!

I am picking through correspondence now to back it up but I was told in no uncertain terms that she has travelled and competed in PC events.

 

[smiggy]

I absolutely and completely sympathise you, have been missold horses myself and I know how horrible it is.
Once though a few years ago, I bought a pony for my son. It was a little new forest pony, eight but been in same home for five years. I had seen it at pony club events, girl had ADHD and would leap all over it in the stable etc. we tried it there, they brought it to us for my son to try him in the school and he was fab. We paid a lit of money because he was so perfect.
Once he came home hews the evil beast pony from hell
He was soooo unhappy. Napped for England, couldn't hack him out with another horse or someone on foot or both or either,he just buck reared buck reared up the lane. Bite all the time, not nips great chunks of flesh if he could. Napped going into the field, napped going out of the field. Basically totally unsuitable in any way as a child's pony. We tried giving him a few weeks to settle but one day he flew from one side of an eight acre. Field to bite my poor Labrador really hard on the back and I just thought enoughs enoughs. They came and picked him up next day. I had obviously been telling them aLl along about the problems we were having . They were very genuine sellers and refunded my money.
Few weeks later pony was resold and exactly the same thing happened. They ended up having him back and loaning him from their premises, where he continued to be a star pony.
So just trying to say that the people might be telling the truth about the pony when they had it. But they should come and see it at yours, witness the behaviour and take pony home, it's not happy, it's. Not what you thought you were buying at all.

 

[Louisejane]

I think its a similar situation, she was just a sweetheart when we viewed her and I think she is just desperately unhappy at leaving her home and people. It would break my heart to think of my pony being like that with new owners. All I'm asking for is help from the seller, I would feel better if they came to us and rode her so we could tell for sure if she behaves when she feels secure with her rider and it would then just be a matter of time and patience and building trust. The vet and our instructor and other "clued up" horsey people are all telling me that that behaviour is too extreme for an unsettled pony which is why I'm not sure what to do. She certainly isn't fit for purpose though.

 

[AmyMay]

OP, pick up the phone and speak to the seller. Ask her to come over and go from there.

 

[Patterdale]

I think in a situation like this though where things can escalate quite quickly it's better to have everything in writing and recorded. Personally I would stick to letters as you've already spoken to her and got nowhere. If she does come over make sure that there are witnesses or she could say anything has happened/been said

 

[Fellewell]

Not sure if this has been suggested but ask your vet for a couple of sachets of bute and see if the 'sweetheart' returns.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

What a shame, OP, because you sound like a nice, honest owner, who may or may not have been taken advantage of.

I would certainly invite them to come and see/ride the pony; surely if they're genuine and not miles away, they'll do that?

Hope you sort it

 

[Kallibear]

Poor you and poor pony.

I'll go against the grain and say I don't think she's been 'mis-sold', she's just stressed.

I suspect that, if you take her back to her old home, she'll turn back into the equine saint straight away. She may well have been everywhere and done everything, and behaved impeccablely BUT she was with people she knew and trusted.

She doesn't sound like a devil, but a young chestnut welsh mare who's stressed and frightened and not getting the handling and leadership she's used to. Some horses can cope fine with it, others, usually younger or sensitive horses, can't.

It also sounds like she's being pushed too fast for her temperament. The young confident rider is hooney round over jumps when what she probably needs right now is firm, calm and confident handling only, whilst she finds her feet

I had a welsh X on loan who I did everything and anything with. I then broke my arm (kicked by a friends horse!) and his owner had someone else ride him. The same fabulous-hacking horse, kept at the same yard, with same routine, same tack and doing same routes, dumped the girl three days in a row and put her in hospital. It's was ME who gave him confidence and he didn't have that in his new rider. God knows what he'd have been like if he'd also moved homes!

It's maybe for the best if you return her, but I really think that, given 6weeks to settle (handling, trust building and malior friends, no ridden work) she'll be that nice quiet pony again.

 

[Louisejane]

Thanks, it looks like I'm left with wait and see and hope she settles or the legal route as she has refused any of my requests. She wont return the money, she won't sell her for me from her yard, she won't pay me back in instalments and she won't come through and ride her for me either.

Why couldn't my daughter have stuck to "My little Ponies"?

 

[Daisy2]

I have not read all the replies but.. however I decided to move from my idyillic grass livery to a yard with her buddy too to a yard with school, stables etc, thinking it would be great, horse turned into a nightmare different personalty to the point she was dangerous ie bargy, spinning in the stable etc and she is a big horse, normally a dope on a rope, I needed assistance when turning out etc, normally I could just lead both of them no problems, anyway after 3 weeks I had had enough and moved back, immediately she returned to her normal self and we are happy, that was 3 years ago. You don't have that choice so I would say give her lots of time to settle in and don't bother riding, just get into a routine and try to ignore the bad behaviour and give lots of praise. If she is normally a good sort then she should come good. Good Luck

 

[be positive]

Thanks, it looks like I'm left with wait and see and hope she settles or the legal route as she has refused any of my requests. She wont return the money, she won't sell her for me from her yard, she won't pay me back in instalments and she won't come through and ride her for me either.

Why couldn't my daughter have stuck to "My little Ponies"?

Has she given any reasons for not even coming over and riding her, if only to say she thinks you are wrong, your instructor is clueless, or whatever she could use to say that this much loved pony is now behaving out of character, that would at least give some credibility that the pony was well mannered before you "ruined" her.

 

[Tammytoo]

Not sure if this has been suggested but ask your vet for a couple of sachets of bute and see if the 'sweetheart' returns.

Worth a try!

 

[Bikerchickone]

So sorry to hear what you've been through. Honestly can't believe that someone who supposedly cared so much for their pony won't even come and see her to try to help sort things out.

However, Trading Standards are really good and really helpful in these situations. I had to contact them regarding a problem with a car dealer and they were great, helped me get my money back. So keep records of everything you do, make notes about each and every contact you've made or attempted with them and what's been said, go back as far as you can properly remember and then at least you'll have plenty of information to help.

Really hope you can get this sorted out soon.

 

[Kallibear]

The seller is being less than helpful but there is always to sides to a story and look at it from her point of view:

She sold a really good little pony to a novice who has now completely ruined her. Now to buyer wants her to take the pony back and give the money back (which the seller can't really afford) and fix the problem, at her expense. So she'll be left out of pocket with a ruined pony that she has to do something with. Therefore she want's nothing to do with it all!

It's quite possible the seller was lying and the pony IS a nightmare, but equally she could see the story as above! Many on here are quick to jump to conlusions and make sellers out to be dodgey.

Either way, you're now stuck with a project pony for a good couple of weeks, either until you sort the problem, or the seller is forced to take her back.

I think you now need to deal with the issues you've got. My very first port of call would be to get out proffesional help (and RA or someone who deals with behavioural issues). It'll only cost you the same a lessons usually. Plenty of people on here could give you recommendations.

I personally would forget all ridden work for now and spent time making friends with the pony. Sort her management so she's spending as much time as possible outside with some nice horsey friends and bring her in every day to practise leading, brushing and just spending time with her. Once she's settled and relaxed, THEN start riding again.

 

[smellsofhorse]

Not read all replys but I can't understand why seller won't come and see and ride pony just to prove you wrong!

She is still young so couldn't have seen and done it all.
She lived with previous owners for 4 years so could genuinely be unsettled and insecure.

You said seller is involved in the pony club.
Is it your branch?
It's unlikely they would sell a dodgy pony to a local person and potential member of the same branch and risk bad press etc in their reputation.

 

[xspiralx]

The seller is being less than helpful but there is always to sides to a story and look at it from her point of view:

She sold a really good little pony to a novice who has now completely ruined her. Now to buyer wants her to take the pony back and give the money back (which the seller can't really afford) and fix the problem, at her expense. So she'll be left out of pocket with a ruined pony that she has to do something with. Therefore she want's nothing to do with it all!

It's quite possible the seller was lying and the pony IS a nightmare, but equally she could see the story as above!

Agree there can be two sides to every story, but given that the OP has had the pony less than a week and flagged up these problems on the very next day after having purchased the pony, the idea that they may have 'ruined' the pony in the space of one day seems unlikely!

I think it is pretty suspect that she is unwilling to even come and ride the pony for you - I'd pursue the legal route.

 

[Arizahn]

I would get her vetted now and see if there is a physical issue, etc. I would also consult a behaviourist. If she gets the all clear then sell her through a dealer who is able to school her and match her with a suitable home. You may even be able to exchange her for a suitable pony.

Worst case scenario, there actually is something very wrong with this little mare. In which case, you may have to consider veterinary treatment, reschooling or even PTS.

It's fairly obvious that the seller won't be interested either way, so I'm afraid you just have to deal with what you have now.

 

[JessPickle]

I'd get bloods run and try and get her returned asap. I'd say you want your money back less £100 for there inconvenience or something, make it sounds like a good deal. Your better off loosing £100 than putting your daughter at risk.

This whole takes a while to settle lark really bugs me, my boy was bought as a novice horse, he was perfect from day 1. As expected. Genuinely laid back horses don't tend to have sudden freak outs in my opinion.

 

[ladyt25]

Personally I believe rearing IS a vice - it would certainly come under that in my book. Not sure how tyou can distinguish rearing as a "behavioural issue" and the likes of windsucking/weaving etc as a vice? Weaving and windsucking are also behavioural issues as are generally due to stress. I would put rearing under the same heading. In my mind a vice is any type of behaviour that is not within general acceptable horse behaviour/desired traits.

I do find it very odd the pony behaved impeccably when you trialled it (and you do seem to have given it a decent trial) so either it is donw to pure upset at the move, pain or the pony was drugged to some degree. Most odd - I have never known of a pony to act like this to be honest, it seems very extreme.

My friend has some lovely ponies for sale who are LR types but lovely all round ponies (still young so still need some work I guess) but she would I am sure, take them back if the purchaser was not happy with them after such a short time. Such a shame not all vendors are the same.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Personally I believe rearing IS a vice

Rearing is a natural equine behaviour.

(Any excuse and I'll post a photo! )

It is an undesirable behaviour when ridden because it is dangerours. You can make many horses rear by putting them in a badly fitting saddle or pulling on the reins and kicking them on hard at the same time (I've seen horses that never rear when ridden, go up vertical when badly ridden as described).

Genuinely laid back horses don't tend to have sudden freak outs in my opinion.

The pony is young and has spent most of her life in the same home, this is not the same as an old schoolmaster.



I am definately giving the pony the benifit of the doubt here. I do believe that the seller should be more willing to help, but that's not the pony's fault.
A vice is a stereotypical behaviour.

 

[dunkley]

The term 'vice' will have a legal definition, and unfortunately rearing, bucking and the like are not vices. The 'vices' referred to in a sales scenario are stable vices, not behavioural issues - whether they are learned, or develop due to pain, they aren't vices when it comes to the definition in a sales situation.

I do feel for you, so many things are not quite ringing as they perhaps should be.
If the sellers had her from a two year old, of course she should have been lunged/long reined. I cannot think of anyone who breaks and schools a youngster without it, especially from the background these sellers have.
I cannot understand why the seller won't help you, or have anything more to do with the pony. If she really was so loved, they would be there like a shot - I know I would. I wouldn't be in a position to refund money on the private sale of one of mine, but I would do my damnedest to sort the problem out, either to settle the pony with it's new owner/rider or helping to sell it on, hopefully to others who were interested first time round. That is just so odd.

 

[lhotse]

Rearing is a natural equine behaviour.

(Any excuse and I'll post a photo! )




.

Not related to the thread, but is rearing in the field an arab thing? My new mare rears with her front legs out straight, I think she wants to audition for the next remake of The Lord of the Rings!!

With relation to the thread, I have had my young mare for just under 2 months now, and although she didn't misbehave like the OP's pony, I can see how much more settled she is with me now, following me around the field and generally acting like 'my' horse now rather than a stranger. She started to test the boundries after a couple of weeks, rearing a couple of times when asked to do something she didn't want to do, and messing around whilst being led. I kept calm, and consistent and now she is calm and consistent. I think that the pony is definitely stressed out, and that maybe a week of just bringing the pony in to be groomed, and fussed over without the added stress of being ridden could prove invaluable. The 13yr old may be fearless, but is she really helping matters if she is jump, jump? What is needed is a settled pony, not one who is expecting to bomb around the arena everytime it's ridden. I would give the pony a chance to settle into it's new routine and new people first.

 

[happyhacking:)]

Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has already been said. How well died the horse travel? Is it possible she slipped in the trailer and has hurt herself? Sound like a pain reaction to me.

 

[Louisejane]

Well aside from the previous owner being about as helpful as a chocolate fireguard, we have had an improvement!

We spent ages with her last night, she was laid in the field looking as miserable as sin when we turned up and I just felt absolutely rotten for her. She couldn't even be bothered to get up when I reached her So we spent a lot of pampering time with her, talking and grooming and just sypamthising with her I guess.

Our braveheart 13 year old has taken such a shine to her and asked if she could work slowly with her, so she took her into the arena and stood with her and watched while other riders worked with their horses. When she rode her she had no whip and just took things easy. She was lovely!! No rearing or bucking, no stresses and the biggest thing was she had lost that "look in her eye", not a hint of whiteness showing. They just had fun!! She popped a couple of small crosspoles and thoroughly praised her throughout for her great behaviour.

I know its not problem solved just yet but its a huge leap forward and I feel so relieved that it does look like a matter of a very unsettled little pony. She looked to actually enjoy herself last night though so hopefully she is gradually getting accustomed to her new surroundings.

I'm still miffed at the OS for the lack of help or assistance, she could have made things easier for us and the poor pony but I'm hoping now that there is promise of a nice future for the poor thing.

 

[AmyMay]

Sounds like a step forward.