Modern Dressage

[eahotson]

Without giving too many details, just met a very nice looking warmblood who has been competed, I think, up to medium and maybe advanced.She has a dip in her nose bone ,a good dip, about the size of the grackle which must have been put on and tightened very tightly.She is now in a nice home.What is going on!

 

[oldie48]

Cruelty, not the preserve of dressage riders though. Grakles have not been dressage legal until fairly recently and used properly are actually much kinder than a flash for example. I think more people are aware of the need to fit any noseband properly but sadly not everyone does. Poor horse if it's been subjected to abuse but I suppose it is possible that the dip is a result of something else, but who knows.

 

[Leandy]

Grackle? Possible but an unlikely choice on a pure dressage horse. Could of course be due to prolonged period of overtight nosebands especially as a youngster but it might well not also. What country is this horse in/from?

 

[holeymoley]

So I thought I was going mad here. I was sure you weren't allowed to wear a grackle noseband for dressage? Then in the last few weeks I've seen 2 horses with them at fairly low level dressage. I've just checked BD rules and you are, when did that come in?!

 

[TPO]

I dont think that is "modern dressage"; it's simply bad (& cruel) horsemanship.

That's if the dent is indeed from badly fitted/used tack

 

[milliepops]

So I thought I was going mad here. I was sure you weren't allowed to wear a grackle noseband for dressage? Then in the last few weeks I've seen 2 horses with them at fairly low level dressage. I've just checked BD rules and you are, when did that come in?!

a good few years ago now

 

[milliepops]

I dont think that is "modern dressage"; it's simply bad (& cruel) horsemanship.

That's if the dent is indeed from badly fitted/used tack

this, if anything there is an increasing movement in modern dressage towards avoiding over tight nosebands via steward checks etc.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Or maybe a nylon headcollar left too long on a growing youngster? Sadly that still happens.

 

[holeymoley]

a good few years ago now

Just googled it, 2018. Coincides with the time mine was on box rest for the majority of the year!

 

[Goldenstar]

H has a natural dent in his nose .
he was not long broken when I got him its not caused by tack.

 

[stormox]

It mightnt be anything to do with the noseband. I had a horse with a major dip in its face once, it was born with it and the vet said it was the way she was laid in the womb with a knee or something pressing on her face.

 

[ihatework]

Oh HHO’s stop ruining the images of these big bad modern dressage abusers by adding in sensible comments please ?

 

[Littlebear]

I read this and thought wow grackles havent been around in BD long enough and certainly they are not a common site in pure BD around med level. Very rarely seen tbh, plus buggar all dressage has really taken place this year at all.
Very likely something else, a friends bashed his head on a door frame and had a weird indent - could be a million things not sure how the direction has gone to the assumption of 'modern dressage' when a million things could be the reason?

 

[eahotson]

I meant crank sorry.The horse was bred at the yard she returned to.Was not born with this dip.Yes I know that dressage is not the only horse sport where abuse occurs but IMHO there is more there than in others.

 

[Zuzan]

I meant crank sorry.The horse was bred at the yard she returned to.Was not born with this dip.Yes I know that dressage is not the only horse sport where abuse occurs but IMHO there is more there than in others.

And there was a study of cadavers which found the majority of sport / competition horses had bone loss of the lower jaw at the bars..

 

[eggs]

I would think it was more likely to be that a head collar was left on too long when the horse was a youngster without being adjusted. A noseband would not be on for that long at a time to cause bone deformation.

OP seems to have an issue with modern dressage but there is plenty of undesirable behaviour occurring in all horse activities from the happy hacker up.

 

[milliepops]

OP seems to have an issue with modern dressage but there is plenty of undesirable behaviour occurring in all horse activities from the happy hacker up.

Exactly, I don't think one anecdote is really enough to condemn a discipline

 

[blitznbobs]

Modern dressage - were all evil ... I got accused of using rollkur the other day cos my horse was behind the vertical (a trick he uses when he dives behind the vertical to avoid going forward... yes I know - more impulsion required.0, but definitely not me jamming his head in.

 

[eahotson]

I would think it was more likely to be that a head collar was left on too long when the horse was a youngster without being adjusted. A noseband would not be on for that long at a time to cause bone deformation.

OP seems to have an issue with modern dressage but there is plenty of undesirable behaviour occurring in all horse activities from the happy hacker up.

Horse was bred on the yard and as a very nicely bred horse was ,no doubt, sold for a lot of money.Think they would have noticed a cranke shaped dip in the nose exactly where a crank nose band would be don't you?

 

[eahotson]

I would think it was more likely to be that a head collar was left on too long when the horse was a youngster without being adjusted. A noseband would not be on for that long at a time to cause bone deformation.

OP seems to have an issue with modern dressage but there is plenty of undesirable behaviour occurring in all horse activities from the happy hacker up.

I am extremely sceptical about all horse sports actually.

 

[scats]

I don’t think you can blame something like that on modern dressage, not on one animal.
I think I’d be putting the blame on neglectful owners at some point in the horses life.

 

[eahotson]

I don’t think you can blame something like that on modern dressage, not on one animal.
I think I’d be putting the blame on neglectful owners at some point in the horses life.

Unfortunately the practices of modern dressage encourage this practice.There has long been concerns about nosebands, among many things, at dressage competitions. I watched an interview at a top dressage competition and one of their top competitors was being interviewed by a mainstream interviewer. On camera the steward came to do "The nose band check".This consisted of lightly running his fingers over the top of the nose band.
I have to say that stewards have a tough job.Some of these people are very wealthy and intitled and their attitude to anyone who frustrates them in anyway could be summed up as "Do you know who I am you silly little man/woman?"Do you know how easily I could ruin your career? Sadly,this attitude is seen lower down the levels as well.

 

[TPO]

Unfortunately the practices of modern dressage encourage this practice.

Where is your proof?

firstly that the dent was 100% caused by a noseband

secondly that this was "encouraged" by modern dressage?

its coming across like you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

There is good and bad practices in all walks of horse ownership, care, training and riding. Blanket blaming a whole sport of bad practices because you perceive one person so have used an overtight noseband is ludicrous.

 

[milliepops]

i just don't recognise this.
the tack checks I've had at even fairly low level shows have been more hands on than quickly running the fingers over. I've seen people told to loosen their nosebands before continuing. Sure people don't necessarily like being told their tack is wrong, but in any regulatory type of role I'd expect a bit of push back. I generally see stewards being appreciated and treated politely by competitors.

I really don't think tack issues are solely related to dressage either.

 

[ihatework]

I really don't think tack issues are solely related to dressage either.

It’s really not! TBH I sit on the fence with regards to some of the competitive dressage I see but my impression is they are slightly ahead of the curve on addressing tack issues. Personally I think it’s generally worse in Eventing & SJ, and I’m fundamentally an Eventing fan

 

[scats]

Unfortunately the practices of modern dressage encourage this practice.There has long been concerns about nosebands, among many things, at dressage competitions. I watched an interview at a top dressage competition and one of their top competitors was being interviewed by a mainstream interviewer. On camera the steward came to do "The nose band check".This consisted of lightly running his fingers over the top of the nose band.
I have to say that stewards have a tough job.Some of these people are very wealthy and intitled and their attitude to anyone who frustrates them in anyway could be summed up as "Do you know who I am you silly little man/woman?"Do you know how easily I could ruin your career? Sadly,this attitude is seen lower down the levels as well.

Have you witnessed that happening?
I still find it a rather big leap from finding marks/disfiguration on one horse and blaming the whole dressage industry.

 

[Goldenstar]

Think you need to take a trip to a showjumping show to see really out there strange tack fitting or a fun ride before you descend from on high to denounce dressage across the board .

 

[Goldenstar]

Unfortunately the practices of modern dressage encourage this practice.There has long been concerns about nosebands, among many things, at dressage competitions. I watched an interview at a top dressage competition and one of their top competitors was being interviewed by a mainstream interviewer. On camera the steward came to do "The nose band check".This consisted of lightly running his fingers over the top of the nose band.
I have to say that stewards have a tough job.Some of these people are very wealthy and intitled and their attitude to anyone who frustrates them in anyway could be summed up as "Do you know who I am you silly little man/woman?"Do you know how easily I could ruin your career? Sadly,this attitude is seen lower down the levels as well.

noseband checks at FEI shows are not done in front of cameras it’s not safe .
they use a gauge .

 

[eahotson]

i just don't recognise this.
the tack checks I've had at even fairly low level shows have been more hands on than quickly running the fingers over. I've seen people told to loosen their nosebands before continuing. Sure people don't necessarily like being told their tack is wrong, but in any regulatory type of role I'd expect a bit of push back. I generally see stewards being appreciated and treated politely by competitors.

I really don't think tack issues are solely related to dressage either.

No of course tack issues are not solely related to dressage but I think there is more abuse there than anywhere.

 

[Roxylola]

Maybe the steward doing "the noseband check" could tell it wasnt tight by doing what they did - if a noseband is clearly loose it's pretty obvious.
I'll support an issue with incorrect and/or inappropriate tack - that's just not ok. Equally I knew a 3 year old, never had tack on that had damage to its nose from either birth or an accident as a foal - prominent dip where a noseband would go. Definitely wasnt a tight halter or noseband that caused it.
You've got an axe to grind clearly OP but you're going to need some actual evidence really