Moving Yards......WWD

I really want to find out once and for all from someone with legal knowledge what the position on no contract notice periods are where no contract either verbal or written exists. I might email my legal department when I go back to work.They deal with contract law a lot so im sure one of them might have a clue. Would be useful to know
 
From the point of view of the livery owner but some clarification on what happens if no contract exists

http://www.henmansfreeth.co.uk/protecting_your_profit

"...If you do not have a written agreement you will need to give “reasonable” notice. What constitutes reasonable notice will depend upon the circumstances. If a debtor has been using the premises for several years then a reasonable period may be longer than for a livery who has only recently joined your yard. Alternatively, the frequency by which their payments are made, i.e. weekly or monthly, may also determine the notice period."
 
To be honest i think you are in the wrong.

No you dont have a contract, whether written or verbal but out of honesty, respect and courticy, a month is the "done thing".

Sometimes yards accept a weeks notice usually, when they are paid weekly, but more often its monthly.

No the yard owner shouldnt have lost her rag but as she said she is probably fed up with everything and its just got to her.

It good that you came to a compromise, so make sure you stick to it.

Pay her what you agreed, its the right thing to do.

You dont want enimies in the horse world.
 
Hevs said:
I really want to find out once and for all from someone with legal knowledge what the position on no contract notice periods are where no contract either verbal or written exists. I might email my legal department when I go back to work.They deal with contract law a lot so im sure one of them might have a clue. Would be useful to know
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Mrs Mozart gave you the answer;)
 
Hevs said:
I really want to find out once and for all from someone with legal knowledge what the position on no contract notice periods are where no contract either verbal or written exists. I might email my legal department when I go back to work.They deal with contract law a lot so im sure one of them might have a clue. Would be useful to know
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Erm, i linked you to a site detailing Scottish law on the subject of contracts and implied contracts as you are in Scotland and the law may differ from England.
 
Yes I saw it Marydoll but that was in reference to suing someone for failing to provide services already paid for. Im not satisfied its the same thing and would like to find out where the law stands with regard to my exact situation. More out of curiosity than anything.
 
Haha its called a discussion forum for a reason. And this discussion has piqued my interest in the legalities around implied contracts which is not what the original post was abour really.
 
This is very interesting. It seems to be a very blurry area.

I have just given four weeks notice at my lovely yard *sniff*. This is the only yard I have ever signed a contract for. They said that they didn't want me to leave :D but I didn't need to give notice either if I wanted to go sooner........ and that they usually refund people if they have paid in advance but leave earlier..... Nice people :D

The yard before that (no contract) I gave three weeksish notice and left at the month end. They didn't care as they have a rapid turnover of clients anyway and there's always someone waiting for a space.

The one before that (no contract and no notice period ever discussed) I paid my last month's (grass) livery before it was even due as she was in trouble financially and I was trying to be nice. However the pasture we were on was proving too rich for my mare and she got too fat so said I needed to go and she went ballistic.:eek: Kept all the money (even though I hadn't 'used' it yet) and also kept my electric fencing! :rolleyes: I could have just gone and removed it but she had multiple laminitics and they would have roamed around and gorged themselves so for the sake of HER ponies I didn't pursue it.

Seems it's just down to individual circumstances? I hope your move goes well today OP
 
Legalities aside, isn't it just polite to give a months notice? As for the YO now being 'happy' with 2 weeks she didn't have much of a choice did she..It was that or nothing. Not having a dig just saying how I see it.
 
Thanks. Just heading off to start moving stuff shortly.

It does appear that livery yards dont play by the same rules as other businesses. I think if they all had contracts these kinds of situations would not arise. A quick search on these forums finds plenty of threads with a similar theme so its not an unusual occurrance and I am certainly not alone. All this talk of implied contracts and done things would not be necesaary if YOs just did the right thing in the first place and pointed out their terms to clients either in writing or verbally. However the general consensus seems to lay that responsibility on the client to find that out. That would never happen in any othrr business. You take a mobile phone contract they are legally obliged to lay out terms and conditions, you rent a car they give you terms and conditions, a house let is the same. Nobody would expect anyone taking these services to have to guess or find out themselves what the terms of that contract are and not have it in writing. But its deemed acceptable for me to be responsible for her not making her terms clear cause I didnt ask. That wouldnt wash in other businesses.

Anyway I had a lovely text off YO this morning and will meet with her this afternoon before moving my boys to give her the promised 2 weeks notice and say our farewells. Looks like we will be parting on good terms after all.
 
Hevs said:
Pearlasinger just because I paid my livery on 27th of each month does not mean I knew she wanted a months notice. I do not possess psychic powers and have paid monthly livery previously where no notice was required.
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If you don't know the basics of contract law you should read up on them before you enter into any contract - I'm sorry but as a grown woman I would expect you to understand the footings of a contract.

Sometimes I wonder why we stopped doing livery, and then I read threads like this.
 
I think is rude to not give notice ..regardless of contract ..you pay monthly you give notice monthly ..yo count on this money and its only fair to give notice and you do have 2 horses so 100% u should pay a full month on both boxes ..I'm guessing YO didn't see it coming ..and out of the blue you said I'm taking my horses in 5 days (not fair IMO ) look at it this way if you were renting a house you have to give notice.. why should a stable (or 2 in your case) be any different ? Do the right thing op offer to pay a months notice per horse !!
 
Had I been given a contract in the first place I would have been given an opportunity to understand it. I am not a lawyer and should not be expectedto understand implied contracts that I dont even know exist.
 
What r we talking an extra £100 ? U would spend that on a day out at a show or a good night out on the town ..or I nice coat ? Pay the YO the extra money ..and walk away having done the right thing
 
Had I been given a contract in the first place I would have been given an opportunity to understand it. I am not a lawyer and should not be expected to understand implied contracts that I dont even know exist. As far as I am A concerned she should have told me from the start but I should have perhaps offered more than 5 days so we compromised on 2 weeks.

I would never in a million years spend 100 quid on a coat btw. Just sayin
 
Hevs said:
Had I been given a contract in the first place I would have been given an opportunity to understand it. I am not a lawyer and should not be expectedto understand implied contracts that I dont even know exist.
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So why didn't you just ask the notice period when you moved on? Why do you need everything spoon feeding to you? Your whole attitude comes across as "nothing is my fault, she should have said.." If you could even see half way that it is partly your fault and you weren't very nice it wouldn't be a bad thing, but you come across as completely tunnel visioned, its all about me.
 
Hand on heart you must feel a little bad at the situation you have created ..I'm am no lawyer ..but its common curtesy to give notice .. U pay monthly u give notice monthly ..simples ;)
 
*******s Honey. Go back and read my last few posts where i clearly accept i should have given her more than 5 'days. My point is that no other company would not clearly pointout their conditons why are livery yards any different??
 
Lambkins i think the fact that i offered 2 weeks would speak for itself. Im not rolling i money so paying 2 lots of livery is not an option. Just had to pay 500 quid to repair my car so even giving 2 weeks will be tight but i didnt want to leave on bad terms. I have always had good relations sigh previous yard owners. I just cant understand why its deemed to be completely my fault. The YO has responsibilities too shes not complety blameless so has to shoulder some of the blame
 
Nice!

Yes I've just seen your last post (posted at the same time as me) where you concede that perhaps you should have given more notice - after eighty odd posts had told you so, you got there! And you do come across as self centered. 80% of people who have replied on here have said you were wrong but you keep going on and on.

You're right, there are other threads like this on here, again with most people saying that notice should be given (apart from the odd ones who think the slightest thing entitles them to up and leave without paying.

If you want legal, clear contracts and every t crossed and i dotted, then you do realise that livery bills will go up because of it.
 
Hevs said:
Had I been given a contract in the first place I would have been given an opportunity to understand it. I am not a lawyer and should not be expectedto understand implied contracts that I dont even know exist.
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You do not need to be a lawyer to understand law, you do not need to be involved in a legal profession of any kind to have an understanding on law. As Honey says your attitude stinks and if you cannot grasp the concept of what is very simple law, you are likely to find yourself in a lot of trouble one day.

You have just stuck your head in the sand here and seem to think that because you don't understand the legal implications of your contract you can just bow out.

Do the decent thing and pay your YO a month notice.
 
No I realised it when I offered her two weeks notice before I even posted this thread. I am allowed to disagree withh opinions arent I?

How will livery bills go up because someone needs to sign a piece of paper exactly? Last yard I was on had a contract and was the same basic price as the one im about to leave.
 
Hevs said:
*******s Honey. Go back and read my last few posts where i clearly accept i should have given her more than 5 'days. My point is that no other company would not clearly pointout their conditons why are livery yards any different??
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^ ^ Rude. Just out of interest, is this not the yard where you were saying you got a lot of help because of your long weekend shifts and stuff? In which case, that could have added to the YO's anger, if they've helped you out a lot and feel you've just left at a drop of a hat (and, before you swear at me, I'm not saying that this is my view, just suggesting what the YO may be thinking).
 
Regardless of other bills (not YO's fault about your car) u said you had a hassle free 6months and only moving so horses are closer to home (again not YO's fault) yes offering two weeks (per horse I'm guessing) is better than nothing but u should offer the full month times two ..or maybe said to the new place yes I want the stables but I have to give a months notice ..so I will move them in a month (and pay the new yard bills as you move in )
 
Because, as a yard owner, having to think of every single thing that a livery is incapable of working out for themselves, or what they may trip over and sue for, or whatever else they may take exception to takes time and effort. DIY makes no money for most yards, to factor all these extra things is way different from the days when people just got on with things and were nice to each other. Time is money... If I had to go to a solicitor to try and work out a contract that was watertight etc it would go on the bills. Actually in my case, it was the reason I stopped doing DIY fullstop.
 
Don't forget when you arrive at the new yard today - the first question to ask is 'what is my notice period?' ;)
 
horsesatemymoney said:
^ ^ Rude. Just out of interest, is this not the yard where you were saying you got a lot of help because of your long weekend shifts and stuff? In which case, that could have added to the YO's anger, if they've helped you out a lot and feel you've just left at a drop of a hat (and, before you swear at me, I'm not saying that this is my view, just suggesting what the YO may be thinking).
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Nope - I turned out all 7 horses on the yard 4 days a week and mucked out my own horse at 6am prior to heading for my 13 hour shift - my horses were brought in for me at the weekends but I did my fair share of bringing in during the week so no I didnt get a lot of help - I got my horses turned out for me 3 days a week and brought in a couple of times - YO did absolutely nothing on the yard.

I appreciate that perhaps my initial 5 days notice was not sufficient - that's why I offered 2 weeks to meet her half way - she did not tell me I had to give notice, I did not ask so we are both to blame so must both shoulder the blame of not having a clear agreement - this is why I offered her 2 weeks which she has accepted - I'm also doing somewhat of a favor for her this week which I am doing for free (I'm normally paid for my work) and have exchanged pleasant texts with her this morning - so we are on a good footing and will be parting on good terms and I will know better next time and so will she
 
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