My horse is older than advertised/and on passport

[EventingMum]

It's worse noting that in 2006 microchips were not mandatory so he may have been chipped at a later date. Is the passport a duplicate / replacement one or is it a completely new one? Some duplicates that I have seen don't have a DOB on them.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I tend to agree it might be better the devil you know than one you don't. As others have said no horse is guaranteed from the moment you buy it anything could happen. And if he ticks every box you wanted them maybe he is worth (to you) what you paid. I would not let the dealer know that you have made your mind up to keep him yet though, I would keep pushing hard (very hard) for some sort of refund at least.

I have never met a genuine dealer yet that doesn't look in a horse's mouth the minute he gives it the once over! I bet he knew the rough age anyway, at least a refund might go someway to compensating for the increase liklihood you won't be riding Jet for as many years as you could have realistically hoped for.

 

[nagblagger]

I never believe what is on a passport now, bought a donkey gelding with passport, he is a uncastrated jack! Tried to claim from the vets and, as i wasn't their client, after getting all the evidence they needed they refused to deal with me. They suggested I sued the dealer and then he would sue the vets!
The other has 2 microchips in, obviously the vet that completed the passport did not check she already had an microchip in, the person i bought her off genuinely didn't know.

I would keep Jet if he is family and you have worked so hard with him, but agree with the others don't tell the dealer, he is probably banking on you being sentimental. I would advise him you want to swap but you will be having his passport altered so it shows his true age. Call his bluff.?

 

[Dexter]

Yep the passport i have for him was issued in 2019

When was the chip inserted? That might give you a better idea. Aging by teeth is never accurate sadly but can give you a rough idea.

If you do send him back do not get involved in exchanges or anything like that. He goes back and you get a full refund. End of.

 

[sausagedogqueen]

It's worse noting that in 2006 microchips were not mandatory so he may have been chipped at a later date. Is the passport a duplicate / replacement one or is it a completely new one? Some duplicates that I have seen don't have a DOB on them.

The passport is a replacement, it states inside 'replacement identification document' with false DOB and microchip number and been signed off by a vet.

 

[sausagedogqueen]

When was the chip inserted? That might give you a better idea. Aging by teeth is never accurate sadly but can give you a rough idea.

If you do send him back do not get involved in exchanges or anything like that. He goes back and you get a full refund. End of.

Is there a way i can tell when the chip was done? The microchip website only gives his DOB, name, breed, sex colour and markings (even the markings are spot on!)

 

[sausagedogqueen]

Thanks all its certainly a head and heart situation I'm in. I set out several months ago to buy a horse and I worked really hard to stretch my budget even further as I realised for everything i wanted id need to pay much more and age was high on my list as an important factor so my head is saying dont just roll over and accept it. Then I just think about not having him with us and it just makes me feel down especially when hes done nothing wrong to deserve this. Right now, i would want the dealer to refund me some money to reflect his true value but if they paid a higher price for him thinking he was also younger then i can see why they arent willing to do this for me.

 

[nagblagger]

Don't believe the dealer paid a higher price for him, they are good at bullsh#t, especially if they think you are gullible. Maybe get someone to speak on your behalf.

 

[Upthecreek]

I would absolutely hold out for a partial refund from the dealer. If they take the horse back to sell on they will be selling it for less than you paid if they are going to advertise it at it’s true age. Put that to them and see what response you get.

I’d get the vet to do a vetting and look at his teeth. If he is 17 and sound and you’ve bought him for hacking I’d keep him, but I’d have a good go at getting some money back from the dealer. And don’t feel sorry for them, they do stuff like this all the time!

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

. Right now, i would want the dealer to refund me some money to reflect his true value but if they paid a higher price for him thinking he was also younger then i can see why they arent willing to do this for me.

Now don't be thinking along those lines for one moment. You bought in good faith from a dealer. A so called professional horse man! Do NOT waste a moment pitying his misfortune. If he doesn't even know enough to correctly age a horse then he is simply a low end horse chancer, no more no less.

I can hazard a guess at how much this dealer paid for your old cob. And believe me it won't be a fraction of the money you parted with. They aren't willing to give you a partial refund simply because they now have your money and they know in reality it will give you a lot of trouble and heartache persuing them.

Please wise up and get tough whatever you decide to do. You deserve better, don't let your good nature allow the dealer to make a total mockery of you.

 

[splashgirl45]

My friend bought a 16 year old horse as a happy hacker, as we traced where the horse came from we found that she was 18, she was perfect for my friend who isn’t the bravest rider and she did loads with her and was still hacking her at 27, so it isn’t necessarily a reason to get rid of him if he is perfect for you. A safe , sound horse is worth a lot of money. From reading your post it sounds like you didn’t have the 2 stage vetting ? And don’t waste any pity on the dealer, they knew he was older than 11 and they wouldn’t have paid anywhere near the amount they charged you, sorry the dealer saw you as a new horse buyer and took advantage, was the dealer involved in the vetting decision?

 

[ester]

My concern is that you didn't have a vetting, and that is riskier with a 17yo than an 11yo. A 17yo is more likely to start to have niggles.

If I wasn't sure (and I would be, I know I want a horse as long as poss and my bought as a 12yo hunted till 24 but it still didn't seem long enough) I would get the vet out to age and do at least a cursory soundness check but at the end of the day I'd absolutely want a partial refund and if not forthcoming I'd be sending back for a full refund. Even if the dealer is super legit they are probably relying on you feeling like you have started to bond and that they can then resist a partial refund.

 

[sausagedogqueen]

My friend bought a 16 year old horse as a happy hacker, as we traced where the horse came from we found that she was 18, she was perfect for my friend who isn’t the bravest rider and she did loads with her and was still hacking her at 27, so it isn’t necessarily a reason to get rid of him if he is perfect for you. A safe , sound horse is worth a lot of money. From reading your post it sounds like you didn’t have the 2 stage vetting ? And don’t waste any pity on the dealer, they knew he was older than 11 and they wouldn’t have paid anywhere near the amount they charged you, sorry the dealer saw you as a new horse buyer and took advantage, was the dealer involved in the vetting decision?

I think if my lad was only 2 years older I would just live with it but theres a big difference between an 11 and 17 year old. Frustrating as whenever I spoke to any dealers I always researched their reputation online and this particular one did have a good reputation. The dealer said they were happy for me to vet but there was a slight pressure on completing the sale as they needed the livery space but that was my choice to make. I might not have even found out about his age for a while if i hadnt decided to sort the microchip transfer today

 

[sausagedogqueen]

My concern is that you didn't have a vetting, and that is riskier with a 17yo than an 11yo. A 17yo is more likely to start to have niggles.

If I wasn't sure (and I would be, I know I want a horse as long as poss and my bought as a 12yo hunted till 24 but it still didn't seem long enough) I would get the vet out to age and do at least a cursory soundness check but at the end of the day I'd absolutely want a partial refund and if not forthcoming I'd be sending back for a full refund. Even if the dealer is super legit they are probably relying on you feeling like you have started to bond and that they can then resist a partial refund.

Yes this is exactly why age was important, if im parting with a lot of money saved up I wanted the maximum time possible with my horse. I came across a lot of 17 year olds in my search for half my budget but dismissed them immediately purely down to age

 

[AmyMay]

I think the Dealer knows that you won’t return the horse. And they’ve done quite a few underhand things by the sounds of it. They’ll have paid peanuts for Jet, so don’t believe a word of what they’ve told you regarding how much they did pay.

I’m assuming you paid a couple of grand - they will have paid less than a grand. So push for £1k refund, accept £500. Or return for a full refund.

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

Agree you need to get a vet/dentist out asap to give you a rough idea of age, don’t wait to long as May put you out of the 30 days to return, if that is what you decide to do.

17 is not old for hacking but as you say there is a big price difference with a 11 and 17 year old.

 

[ester]

I think the Dealer knows that you won’t return the horse. And they’ve done quite a few underhand things by the sounds of it. They’ll have paid peanuts for Jet, so don’t believe a word of what they’ve told you regarding how much they did pay.

I’m assuming you paid a couple of grand - they will have paid less than a grand. So push for £1k refund, accept £500. Or return for a full refund.

I imagine he was a lot more than 2k in the current market.

 

[sausagedogqueen]

Now don't be thinking along those lines for one moment. You bought in good faith from a dealer. A so called professional horse man! Do NOT waste a moment pitying his misfortune. If he doesn't even know enough to correctly age a horse then he is simply a low end horse chancer, no more no less.

I can hazard a guess at how much this dealer paid for your old cob. And believe me it won't be a fraction of the money you parted with. They aren't willing to give you a partial refund simply because they now have your money and they know in reality it will give you a lot of trouble and heartache persuing them.

Please wise up and get tough whatever you decide to do. You deserve better, don't let your good nature allow the dealer to make a total mockery of you.

Yep you are right. If they dont offer any partial refund I think the 'sensible' option would be to return for full refund. Completely disheartening

 

[Barton Bounty]

Your not talking about 1/2 years , its a significant difference

 

[sausagedogqueen]

I think the Dealer knows that you won’t return the horse. And they’ve done quite a few underhand things by the sounds of it. They’ll have paid peanuts for Jet, so don’t believe a word of what they’ve told you regarding how much they did pay.

I’m assuming you paid a couple of grand - they will have paid less than a grand. So push for £1k refund, accept £500. Or return for a full refund.

I wish I'd paid that, i wouldn't even grumble over a refund for that. I would need about 3-4k back.

 

[nagblagger]

What ever you decide get his passport amended with his correct year of birth. Once the vet has seen him make sure she documents her findings in a factual way to present to the dealer.

 

[meleeka]

I wish I'd paid that, i wouldn't even grumble over a refund for that. I would need about 3-4k back.

Do you have evidence for the value of the horse as a 17 year old (if that’s how old the vet estimates him at)? Have a look at ads for similar and save them now. When you’ve had his age correctly estimated, contact the dealer, with your evidence, and put the case that if they were to sell him again, they’d have to disclose his age, so would not be getting anywhere near what you paid. They may well rather partially refund you, than go to the expense of you returning him and reselling.

In any case your first port of call should be a vet to examine his mouth.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I don't think sausagedogqueen has made a secret of the price she paid, I recall it was considerably more than a couple of thousand! The dealer is a rogue full stop. Poor horse, poor new owner.

 

[sausagedogqueen]

Do you have evidence for the value of the horse as a 17 year old (if that’s how old the vet estimates him at)? Have a look at ads for similar and save them now. When you’ve had his age correctly estimated, contact the dealer, with your evidence, and put the case that if they were to sell him again, they’d have to disclose his age, so would not be getting anywhere near what you paid. They may well rather partially refund you, than go to the expense of you returning him and reselling.

In any case your first port of call should be a vet to examine his mouth.

I have an idea of how much he would sell for based on my own shopping for horses experience recently. I know the market is high at the moment so I am not unreasonable as to what i think his worth is. But as others have also said he might be even older than 17 for all I know so I am going to ring vets tomorrow.

Even though i have raised the issue within 30 days, if the dealer drags their heels in taking him back until the 30 days is up, do they still have to honour the full refund as the issue was raised before the 30 days ? Basically what im saying is, is this a mad rush to get sorted in the next two weeks?

 

[meleeka]

I have an idea of how much he would sell for based on my own shopping for horses experience recently. I know the market is high at the moment so I am not unreasonable as to what i think his worth is. But as others have also said he might be even older than 17 for all I know so I am going to ring vets tomorrow.

Even though i have raised the issue within 30 days, if the dealer drags their heels in taking him back until the 30 days is up, do they still have to honour the full refund as the issue was raised before the 30 days ? Basically what im saying is, is this a mad rush to get sorted in the next two weeks?

Screenshot the ads you’ve found in case you need them.

I think you have to have put it in writing before the 30 days is up, if you want to return him. A vet should be fairly quick, within a few days, which will hopefully make things clearer.

 

[sausagedogqueen]

I don't think sausagedogqueen has made a secret of the price she paid, I recall it was considerably more than a couple of thousand! The dealer is a rogue full stop. Poor horse, poor new owner.☹

Honestly even if i get my full refund back, the thought of shopping for a horse again just depresses me. I feel like il be buying a horse to fit the saddle and everything I've bought for him

 

[sausagedogqueen]

Screenshot the ads you’ve found in case you need them.

I think you have to have put it in writing before the 30 days is up, if you want to return him. A vet should be fairly quick, within a few days, which will hopefully make things clearer.

I have screenshots of the adverts with his pictures in and claiming his age. Plus all the text messages back and forth.

 

[meleeka]

I have screenshots of the adverts with his pictures in and claiming his age. Plus all the text messages back and forth.

You may also need screenshots of 17 year old cobs of a similar height and experience as evidence of his actual value. If the dealer says he bought in good faith, you can’t really prove otherwise, so if you go for a partial refund you may need proof as to how much he’s actually worth (not just your opinion). If it ends up in court, that’s what they’d ask for, I’m fairly sure.

 

[Upthecreek]

I know it’s shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted so to speak. But this is exactly why it’s so important to get a pre-purchase vetting, particularly when you are spending several thousands of pounds on a horse (or in fact just as important for a cheap one to save the hassle and heartache). I always ask the vet to check that teeth are commensurate with the age I’ve been told.

 

[Upthecreek]

The dealer will be banking on you getting attached to the horse and not returning it if they don’t agree to a partial refund. If the horse definitely is 17 and not 11 I’d be asking for a third back of what I paid, provided the horse is declared sound by the vet for what you want to do with him. If he isn’t sound I would probably return him, but only give the reason to the dealer that he is 6 years older than advertised.