My horse is older than advertised/and on passport

[sausagedogqueen]

The dealer will be banking on you getting attached to the horse and not returning it if they don’t agree to a partial refund. If the horse definitely is 17 and not 11 I’d be asking for a third back of what I paid, provided the horse is declared sound by the vet for what you want to do with him. If he isn’t sound I would probably return him, but only give the reason to the dealer that he is 6 years older than advertised.

I am attached not gonna lie. I would take a third back for him too, even though il have still paid more than hes worth but i will have to see what the dealer come back with as theyre proposing an exchange but i dont have any more 'good faith' left in me!
I just hope to god a vet doesn't age him even older

 

[gallopingby]

Well l’ve had a quick look back and there are a few ‘learning’ things that stand out. A dealer with no school or access to some facility to try a horse would seem to me to be at the lower end of the spectrum and the fact he was filthy when he arrived is another indicator of a lower end dealer. Price wise it seems transport was included in the deal? That could easily be a few hundred pounds. I think the price you paid for a safe hacking cob was very reasonable in the current market but maybe you could get some money back if you pursue l’d be fairly sure a higher end dealer would be selling for that price but he’d be better presented. Do you have any way of finding out who any of the previous owners were?

 

[saddlesore]

I am attached not gonna lie. I would take a third back for him too, even though il have still paid more than hes worth but i will have to see what the dealer come back with as theyre proposing an exchange but i dont have any more 'good faith' left in me!
I just hope to god a vet doesn't age him even older

I wouldn’t begin to entertain an exchange. They’ve charged a small fortune for a horse that they must’ve known is older than dodgy passport states and they have no proper trial/vetting facilities. None of this inspires a hint of confidence that you won’t end up worse off…

 

[IveRunOutOfNamesToThinkOf]

You like this horse, the horse likes you. Yes you’ve been ripped off money wise but please don’t return it like a faulty goods item. You now know what checks in future to do when buying a horse, hopefully you will get some money back by legal action of them lying. The horse is fully functional and does what you need, just for a shorter timeframe. Enjoy the horse and give it the best life

 

[sausagedogqueen]

You like this horse, the horse likes you. Yes you’ve been ripped off money wise but please don’t return it like a faulty goods item. You now know what checks in future to do when buying a horse, hopefully you will get some money back by legal action of them lying. The horse is fully functional and does what you need, just for a shorter timeframe. Enjoy the horse and give it the best life

The thought of returning him honestly makes me feel like I'm letting him down especially after him growing his trust in me. Here is hoping the dealer does the right thing by us.

 

[splashgirl45]

The dealer is a rat. He deliberately sold you an older horse and talked you out of vetting by trying to rush you. I wish you had taken your trainer or similar to hold your hand . This seems to happen so often on this forum , and the buyer is left heartbroken…. If you do return him and get your refund please take someone strong with you so they can stand up to the dealer if you go to see something else. I have been around horses all of my life and when I was looking for a new horse I looked at some on my own and when I found what I wanted I got a trainer to come with me for my second viewing, and I got the horse vetted…that’s what you should do next time

 

[Highmileagecob]

Contact Trading Standards and ask if they can advise. You have purchased an item which turns out to be not as advertised and possibly of reduced ability to use as intended. A partial refund would go a long way towards rectifying this.
He looks a really good, honest sort from your photos, very similar to my cob (Dales type), and mine stayed in full work to the age of 26, so I wouldn't write him off if you can come to come agreement with the dealer.
Is it possible to trace previous owners through his microchip and build a better history?

 

[ester]

You like this horse, the horse likes you. Yes you’ve been ripped off money wise but please don’t return it like a faulty goods item. You now know what checks in future to do when buying a horse, hopefully you will get some money back by legal action of them lying. The horse is fully functional and does what you need, just for a shorter timeframe. Enjoy the horse and give it the best life

We don't know that he is fully functional though.

 

[Dexter]

Is there a way cam tell when the chip was done? The microchip website only gives his DOB, name, breed, sex colour and markings

ring them, as in the microchip people, I'm sure they will keep records.

 

[Glitter's fun]

What happened -
You have been conned by a dodgy dealer. There is no way he can't tell 11 from 17 by its teeth. He skilfully steered you away from a vetting by making you feel under time pressure. He has an advantage over dodgy 2nd hand car salesmen because emotions are involved.
I am very very sorry that this has happened to you. It makes me very sad, for you and for the horse. You have had a nasty shock.

What happens now-
Forgive yourself. Much more experienced people will have been conned by this crook.
Take a deep breath and get the information you need to deal with the real situation you are now in.
Get a vet to age him as accurately as possible. (Once a horse is teenaged it isn't possible to age it within a year or two. The vet will give you a range but what he should be able to be definite about is whether the horse is 11 years or not. ) Also get an opinion as to whether the horse is sound for hacking and whether you have been told any other major lies about him.
Ask yourself whether you would have bought him if you'd known everything you know now. If "no" send him back. If "yes" demand a partial refund.

Sending hugs.

 

[FAYEFUDGE]

I’d ask a s

Im not even angry just upset. Been down this evening to give him his haynet and he came to the door and made his little noise that he does when he sees me coming
Going to ring vets tomorrow and see about getting another idea of age. Ive been feeling so great recently with all our progress and then this happens

Id ask a solicitor for advice.
If it was me, and I really liked the horse, I’d push for a partial refund.

 

[tda]

Sorry you are in this position. The only thing that might worry me is why a replacement passport, yes I know they do get lost sometimes, but has the horse been sold while on loan, or even stolen?
Maybe try some of the tracing horses type fb pages to find more info on him
Even though it's the right things to do I wouldn't want to send him back either

 

[Rowreach]

You've been mis-sold a horse, it doesn't matter if the dealer knew about his real age or not (and I don't believe for one second that he didn't know), you are within your rights to return the horse for a full refund.

If you agree to a replacement, you will be without your money, without a horse for goodness knows how long, and you will have no way of going back on the arrangement to what you are entitled to right now.

Ditto if you agree a partial refund, you are accepting the horse as is, albeit at a lower price.

Honestly I'm sick to death of the way some dealers behave, including recently one who I actually thought was reasonably decent (a whole other story) who isn't.

OP I think you need to figure out what you actually want to happen (keep, return, get a partial refund - definitely not a replacement!) and then go for whatever option you pick.

You have enough information right now to return him, without going to even more expense in getting the vet out to age him.

 

[sausagedogqueen]

Thanks for everyones support. This forum is like bloody therapy for me at the moment. I've barely slept a wink thinking about this.
I have called PetLog, the company who have his microchip recorded with and they are sending me a document that confirms the date his microchip was implanted. I'm on edge refreshing my emails every two minutes. We have a routine vet visit at our yard on Tuesday so my next point of call is asking the vet to age him. I'm going down to the yard shortly to start my mucking out jobs and I'm going to see if I can get a look at his teeth and possibly photos if I can...

If he ends up going back he will be in much better condition than he arrived in. Freshly clipped, new shoes, he's been treated for feather mites too bless him had to have all his feathers clipped off they were a mess but I felt so sorry for him as he was stomping his feet so badly from irritation. Yet to hear anything from the dealer today.... :/

 

[Red-1]

Thanks for everyones support. This forum is like bloody therapy for me at the moment. I've barely slept a wink thinking about this.
I have called PetLog, the company who have his microchip recorded with and they are sending me a document that confirms the date his microchip was implanted. I'm on edge refreshing my emails every two minutes. We have a routine vet visit at our yard on Tuesday so my next point of call is asking the vet to age him. I'm going down to the yard shortly to start my mucking out jobs and I'm going to see if I can get a look at his teeth and possibly photos if I can...

If he ends up going back he will be in much better condition than he arrived in. Freshly clipped, new shoes, he's been treated for feather mites too bless him had to have all his feathers clipped off they were a mess but I felt so sorry for him as he was stomping his feet so badly from irritation. Yet to hear anything from the dealer today.... :/

I would make sure the examination with the vet is booked in advance, but also have a lameness assessment etc done.

I would not lose too much sleep. You have the horse you were happy with a few days ago. No horse has a guarantee, and if the vet says he is sound I would be inclined to keep him, partial refund or not.

I would then ask for the refund but not lose sleep if I didn't get it, as I doubt the dealer will lose sleep and it won't change anything.

Better this than buy a young one that drops dead soon after arrival, despite long verifiable history, 5 stage vetting and x rays - which actually happened to me!

 

[Highmileagecob]

Deep breath, stay strong, and work out exactly what result you would like to aim for. I think I remember you saying he would be a share for you and your child - at 17, he has around eight years of happy hacking life, and probably won't start to slow down until he is well past 20. By that time, your child may have lost interest, or have moved on to an additional pony. Sending you hugs, and I hope it works out for you.

 

[maya2008]

I agree you need a partial refund. Aside from that though, you and your daughter are novice owners who need a steady horse. 17 is exactly the age for that - they have a ton of life experience, no longer wish to rush around, and can confidently look after you and your child. In your position I would spend the £300 ish to get a full vetting done plus perhaps x-rays to look for potential arthritis etc. If horse is sound and doing well for age, I wouldn’t worry. You really do need to know though.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Thanks for everyones support. This forum is like bloody therapy for me at the moment. I've barely slept a wink thinking about this.
I have called PetLog, the company who have his microchip recorded with and they are sending me a document that confirms the date his microchip was implanted. I'm on edge refreshing my emails every two minutes. We have a routine vet visit at our yard on Tuesday so my next point of call is asking the vet to age him. I'm going down to the yard shortly to start my mucking out jobs and I'm going to see if I can get a look at his teeth and possibly photos if I can...

If he ends up going back he will be in much better condition than he arrived in. Freshly clipped, new shoes, he's been treated for feather mites too bless him had to have all his feathers clipped off they were a mess but I felt so sorry for him as he was stomping his feet so badly from irritation. Yet to hear anything from the dealer today.... :/

Sorry to hear your in this situation. If he is only for hacking and is a good safe hack, 17 is nothing. He could easily go on for another 10 years. I would chalk it to experience otherwise I would worry myself sick as to where he will end up.

 

[AmyMay]

You need a specific vet appointment rather than being included in the routine one. So book yourself a specific slot from r after the routine one. Make it clear that you’ll want a written report on the age the vet thinks the horse is.

 

[splashgirl45]

As others have said, if he is a safe gentle horse who you like and were happy with after the first little problem, I would keep him and try to get a part refund. If that wasn’t forthcoming I wouldn’t spend money on chasing him but I would make sure your experience with this dealer is made more public. If he is sound according to the vet , even more reason to keep him as safe horses suitable to the more novice riders are hard to find . Good luck

 

[Ample Prosecco]

In terms of your rights it is completely irrelevant whether dealer knew the true age or not. (Spoiler alert: of course he bl00dy did!). But you don’t need to challenge him. Nor is it relevant what he paid (another spoiler alert: nowhere near what you paid). None of that matters. You have the right to return a horse who was missold for a full refund. A 17 year old who was sold as 11 very definitely was missold. For private sales you have to prove the seller knowingly missold. Dealers have to take missold horses back whether they knew or not.

You may in the end decide to accept a partial refund but I would start on the basis of requesting a full refund as horse was missold. Put that in writing. Quote the relevant consumer law. Send it recorded delivery. Then wait for a response. The negotiations need be to be from a place of ‘you missold me a horse and I am entitled to a full refund’ not ‘we were both unsure of the horse’s age and what a pickle but hey I’m sure we can work something out’.

Toughen up! The man’s a crook. Don’t let him pretend he’s doing you a favour by offering a replacement.
He may recognise that a partial refund is his best option but only if he believes you are serious about pursuing a full refund.

 

[saddlesore]

You need a specific vet appointment rather than being included in the routine one. So book yourself a specific slot from r after the routine one. Make it clear that you’ll want a written report on the age the vet thinks the horse is.

This ^^

 

[sausagedogqueen]

Ok all so the horse is confirmed 17 years old.
Dealer will not even consider a partial refund. They will only refund me by taking the horse back and reselling and then send me my money. I said absolutely not no way. You cant take the horse and my money and leave me with only hope of my refund. They said they dont have the money to refund me otherwise.
The only other option they have given me is an exchange for a mare they have they bought off a private seller. Mare on the surface seems fine but I dont want to turn it into a bigger mess by considering another horse.
Im worried i might have to go down a legal route but i still fear i wont get anywhere as I've read SO many people going legal with dealers and winning, but still not getting their money. The dealer wont give me a single penny partial refund for him. To them, its either swap for this mare, or they take him back and i get the money when he sells (i definitely wont be letting this happen)

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Start with a formal letter to buy you time. If you formally request a refund on the basis of mis-selling within 30 days then you are unside the time.

If you are a BHS member ring their free legal helpline.

 

[AmyMay]

Ok all so the horse is confirmed 17 years old.
Dealer will not even consider a partial refund. They will only refund me by taking the horse back and reselling and then send me my money. I said absolutely not no way. You cant take the horse and my money and leave me with only hope of my refund. They said they dont have the money to refund me otherwise.
The only other option they have given me is an exchange for a mare they have they bought off a private seller. Mare on the surface seems fine but I dont want to turn it into a bigger mess by considering another horse.
Im worried i might have to go down a legal route but i still fear i wont get anywhere as I've read SO many people going legal with dealers and winning, but still not getting their money. The dealer wont give me a single penny partial refund for him. To them, its either swap for this mare, or they take him back and i get the money when he sells (i definitely wont be letting this happen)

Take them to the small claims court. It doesn’t cost much.

 

[criso]

The dealer wont give me a single penny partial refund for him. To them, its either swap for this mare, or they take him back and i get the money when he sells (i definitely wont be letting this happen)

If the dealer hasn't got the money for a partial refund, then where is he going to find it for a full refund. He can't ask the same amount for the horse now he knows his real age unless he is planning to sell as the age in the replacement passport.

Even if you did send him back you shouldn't have to wait for when he sells, if he sells.

I think you should get legal advice about the right process to follow.

 

[nagblagger]

I agree with Ambers Echo, get legal advice and write the letter. He should take the horse back with a full refund, not wait until it resells and at 17yrs will be problematic and he will then say you owe him livery! ( I know you don't want to go down this route).
I definitely wouldn't contemplate the mare, another vetting and other issues may develop.
Good luck.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

The dealer I got Amber from missold me a horse. I did not vet as horse was a 3yo bought by dealer at auction and came with a vetting certificate. I checked vet out and he seemed fine. But the horse had a club foot. (How I missed it is beyond me.!) Not lame but equally not suitable to be a ridden horse as the pastern was so low/horizontal to the ground that my vet was able to video it hitting the ground in trot in-hand. He wrote a letter saying horse was unfit to be broken to ride as a result of a serious conformation fault that meant the horse would be in pain and break down when the pastern was loaded.

It was nowhere near as clear cut as your situation. And dealer initially didn’t want to know. He initially said horse was sold as seen. Then that the horse was fine. Then that I needed to sue the vet who passed. I just kept politely replying that he was responsible for the horse being fit for purpose and as the horse wasn’t, I wanted a refund.

I did agree a swap in the end because I wanted it to be over. But I was also experienced enough to produce and sell on another horse. (Though I ended up keeping the swapped one). But I’d have taken it all the way if I needed to.

I would definitely at least start down the legal route and see if that triggers a change of heart ….

I’d also post your story on Dodgy Dealers. You do sometimes see an update post saying ‘now resolved’ when a dealer finds his name being dragged through the mud and decides it’s not a great look for him.

 

[Red-1]

I don't dispute that you are owed the money but, if the vet also says the horse is sound and fit for purpose, I would thank my lucky stars that I had found him and be happy. I presume the vet examined today after all? Happy is more important than right. If the vet didn't examine, I would do that pronto to make sure he is fit and healthy.

Once I was happy, then I may consider trying to get a partial refund. I presume you have the dealer's response in writing? As I read it that he has refused to take the horse back and give a refund on return. Offering to only refund once the horse is sold is not offering a refund on return. it is not acceptable. If that is not in writing, I would email to confirm your understanding of his offer so it is in writing. So, I would go to small claims court for the partial refund as the goods were of a lower value and the dealer has refused a refund.

TBH, If you are otherwise happy with the horse, and the vet says he is fit and well, nothing would prise him from my hot, sticky hands!!!

 

[ester]

This is not a good dealer, taking the horse back to resell for you is a ploy used by many and is not acceptable/doesn’t follow consumer law. You can be waiting a long time for your money and as you own the horse the dealer is then acting as ‘agent’ which also gets messy. Also the horse is now worth a lot less so you aren’t getting your money back.

a good dealer who’d made a mistake would be mortified and refunding in full asap.

Time to get legal in afraid if you want to go the route of wanting to see any money.