My horse is 'seriously underweight'

Holly Hocks said:
But the woman wasn't wrong in saying he was underweight, was she, if you read most of the answers on here? Maybe wrong in feeding him, but not wrong in her comments.
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The replies on here have been 50/50 and its proven to all come down to personal preference, she was wrong in saying he was seriously under weight all comments agreeing with this have only said he could do with a 'little' more coverage, no one has agreed with her in the sence he is seriously underweight
 
Ok I'm sure someone will explain this better than me but anyway,

You horse looks fairly lean. He is not likely to use any of his extra protein to build muscle as he doesn't look like he will have any spare after using it for basic functions. If the horse had slightly mire condition and maybe a balanced feed for building topline ie build up mix, he would start to build topline. Keeping him lean, no matter what/how correctly you work him is not going to be conductive for building muscle. Just like with humans if you don't have enough or/and the correct fuel you won't become a body builder.
 
vickyb said:
OP, I think your horse is lovely, and I am very struck by his wonderfully strong looking legs and large frame. I have read through the post, but I must have missed his age, but from what you say he is young. He is not underweight, nor overweight, but I would not like him much leaner. If he were mine (and I wish he was) I would be working him more to build up muscle and then, quite justifiably, feed him more. He has got a large frame to mature into - I should imagine in a few years time he will be a strapping beastie.
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^^^ This (and I like them lean).
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
He has no topline because he is too skinny, no he has no topline as he is still a baby and still needs to build up a bit more muscle on his neck, somthing i am working on right now!
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You Wont Forget Me said:
Im not using that as an excuse that is exactly what we were told by the judge at our last show (last weekend) and also by our vet last time she was out (last month) i am working on his topline just now and already noticing a difference with him
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Hmm ;)
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
The whole reason i asked is because my MUM wanted to hear some other opinons as she knew the woman was wrong in saying he was under wight but had nothing to back up her answer, i have gotten loads of feedback and have taken it ALL on board! i think the best way to settle this will come down to seeing what the vet thinks on the matter
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Good one, if you want to pay a professional £60 to give you his opinion fair enough, please tell him you consider the horse which is in regular work is well muscled, see what he thinks, I would be interested!!!
Your mum was upset and was unsure if the horse was underweight, now she has had all these adverse opinions, she is sure, and all the opinions are wrong!!!!
 
just typed long reply and lost it duh!!

I would try 24/7 turnout and watch his weight on good grass so you can restrict or add hay accordingly. I would also phone a couple of helplines (topspec etc) and get him an all round balancer to help build topline so you know he has the building blocks available to develop.

I still think he is not underweight but just needs topline/muscle.
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
No this is just not what i have been tought in my time with horses tbh the first time ive heard someone say feeding them up will bring muscle, i will speak to my intructors, vet and other people though as i know i could be wrong but like i have said i know im no expert and i am still learning and i also dont want you or anyone else to think im ignoring your advice because im not, i have taken it all on board
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ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!! Nobody has said feeding him up will bring muscle, do you not understand basic science? How is your horse possibly going to build muscle when there is NOTHING on him to turn into muscle. Thats why athletes need GOOD diets and more calories than most people in order to not only maintain good weight but build muscle!!!
 
goldenmint said:
Ok I'm sure someone will explain this better than me but anyway,

You horse looks fairly lean. He is not likely to use any of his extra protein to build muscle as he doesn't look like he will have any spare after using it for basic functions. If the horse had slightly mire condition and maybe a balanced feed for building topline ie build up mix, he would start to build topline. Keeping him lean, no matter what/how correctly you work him is not going to be conductive for building muscle. Just like with humans if you don't have enough or/and the correct fuel you won't become a body builder.
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Totally understand that yes, i have taken on board everything that has been said and i will try upping his hay and see how he gets on
 
Bottom Line - you've had a lot of advice from peeps here, and I can see that if your horse has his forage reduced he WILL LOSE WEIGHT. He is doing a lot of work !!!!

The only way out of this situation is to correctly guage what energy your horse needs, and give it to him. If he needs the extra haylage to keep in in the condition of the pics, YOU MUST FEED MORE. it's really so simple, that is why people are infuriated - you (or your Mum) asked for advice, and you cannot see others logic.

It really is not difficult.

YOUR FEED/FORAGE + EXTRA HAYLAGE = HORSE IN CONDITION OF PHOTOS.

YOUR FEED/FORAGE MINUS EXTRA HAYLAGE = HORSE LOSING WEIGHT.
 
pixiebee said:
ARE YOU SERIOUS!!!! Nobody has said feeding him up will bring muscle, do you not understand basic science? How is your horse possibly going to build muscle when there is NOTHING on him to turn into muscle. Thats why athletes need GOOD diets and more calories than most people in order to not only maintain good weight but build muscle!!!
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There is a comment saying i need to feed him up in order to get muscle! YES i know this!! I also know horses competing at a much higher level than us who are fed much less than him, he is fed what we have been advice to feed and it will get adjusted as and when it needs to i WILL be increasing is hay and see how he gets on with that, some people are making out like he is fed nothing, he still gets a good amount of forage and a hard feed
 
shysmum said:
Bottom Line - you've had a lot of advice from peeps here, and I can see that if your horse has his forage reduced he WILL LOSE WEIGHT. He is doing a lot of work !!!!

The only way out of this situation is to correctly guage what energy your horse needs, and give it to him. If he needs the extra haylage to keep in in the condition of the pics, YOU MUST FEED MORE. it's really so simple, that is why people are infuriated - you (or your Mum) asked for advice, and you cannot see others logic.

It really is not difficult.

YOUR FEED/FORAGE + EXTRA HAYLAGE = HORSE IN CONDITION OF PHOTOS.

YOUR FEED/FORAGE MINUS EXTRA HAYLAGE = HORSE LOSING WEIGHT.
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Not necessarily - the amount of forage that this busy body is giving may be tiny - and it may be very irregularly, in which case it's not going to be making a huge amount of difference.

You are right in your logic though - the amount of forage given should increase.

I think the point OP is making here is that it's not on for this person to be feeding him, and it is difficult for her to ascertain how much he needs in comparison to how much he is getting because she hasn't got a clue how much he is getting currently.
 
shysmum said:
Bottom Line - you've had a lot of advice from peeps here, and I can see that if your horse has his forage reduced he WILL LOSE WEIGHT. He is doing a lot of work !!!!

The only way out of this situation is to correctly guage what energy your horse needs, and give it to him. If he needs the extra haylage to keep in in the condition of the pics, YOU MUST FEED MORE. it's really so simple, that is why people are infuriated - you (or your Mum) asked for advice, and you cannot see others logic.

It really is not difficult.

YOUR FEED/FORAGE + EXTRA HAYLAGE = HORSE IN CONDITION OF PHOTOS.

YOUR FEED/FORAGE MINUS EXTRA HAYLAGE = HORSE LOSING WEIGHT.
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Totally agree and as i have said i will up his hay and see how he gets on! I can see others logics and i have taken it all on, the have been loads of other opinions and it seems to be all coming down to personal preference, i would allow his condition to be any less than what it is just now
 
I think he is poor, not thin but I wouldn't want mine looking like that. When I was hunting and my horse was as fit as a butchers dog she was lean but had a rock hard neck and bum, but not an ounce of fat on her.
He is being worked pretty hard by the sound of things and I think he needs more hay - if he is 6 then he is not a baby and should look a lot better than he does.
 
OP he is in no way,shape or form seriously underweight and livery should not have fed him anything unless having asked you first.

I personally would want a bit more weight on him, mainly do he could start building muscle, but he is lovely chap and you obviously take very good care of him.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Good one, if you want to pay a professional £60 to give you his opinion fair enough, please tell him you consider the horse which is in regular work is well muscled, see what he thinks, I would be interested!!!
Your mum was upset and was unsure if the horse was underweight, now she has had all these adverse opinions, she is sure, and all the opinions are wrong!!!!
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I have at no point said he is well muscled, he still has much more muscle to develop/tone. My mum knows the horse isnt under weight and wanted to prove a point to the woman, answers on here are about 50/50 some saying he's fine some saying they would like to see a little more weight, so it's simply down to personal preference, i have however taken on everyone's advice and appreciate it all
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
I also know horses competing at a much higher level than us who are fed much less than him, he is fed what we have been advice to feed and it will get adjusted as and when it needs to i WILL be increasing is hay and see how he gets on with that, some people are making out like he is fed nothing, he still gets a good amount of forage and a hard feed
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How much does he get? In kgs, forage and hard feed, and what hard feed? Who advised you, a nutritionist?

Ignore the fact you know other horses who work more and fed less, treat the horse as an individual. Mine managed to remain eventing/team chase fit on no hard feed at all but was exceptionally well muscled. In fact, despite being retired, spending all winter on box rest and having no hard feed he is still vastly better muscled than your boy, and he's in his 20s. They're all different!

He doesn't need to be fat, but at 6 he is hardly a baby and he looks very undermuscled for his type; he is not a thoroughbred.
 
Clodagh said:
I think he is poor, not thin but I wouldn't want mine looking like that. When I was hunting and my horse was as fit as a butchers dog she was lean but had a rock hard neck and bum, but not an ounce of fat on her.
He is being worked pretty hard by the sound of things and I think he needs more hay - if he is 6 then he is not a baby and should look a lot better than he does.
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His progress has been slow, having got him when he was 4.5years he had only been broken had no schooling ect and me still being young and him still being young we've taken things slowly and he is starting to shape up, okay prepared to most 6 yo yes he prop isnt in as good condition muscle wise but we are getting there with him
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
I have at no point said he is well muscled, he still has much more muscle to develop/tone. My mum knows the horse isnt under weight and wanted to prove a point to the woman, answers on here are about 50/50 some saying he's fine some saying they would like to see a little more weight, so it's simply down to personal preference, i have however taken on everyone's advice and appreciate it all
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They are not 50 : 50 what people have said is that your horse is too lean, and it is difficult to know how much leaner he would be if he was only getting what you want to feed him, at no point have you given us any reason why he can't get enough to eat.
 
rhino said:
How much does he get? In kgs, forage and hard feed, and what hard feed? Who advised you, a nutritionist?

Ignore the fact you know other horses who work more and fed less, treat the horse as an individual. Mine managed to remain eventing/team chase fit on no hard feed at all but was exceptionally well muscled. In fact, despite being retired, spending all winter on box rest and having no hard feed he is still vastly better muscled than your boy, and he's in his 20s. They're all different!

He doesn't need to be fat, but at 6 he is hardly a baby and he looks very undermuscled for his type; he is not a thoroughbred.
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We dont weigh it, he is given a stuffed haynet at night, aswell as 1 scoop of oats and conditioning mix. He is actually Thoroughbred X Warmblood
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
We dont weigh it, he is given a stuffed haynet at night, aswell as 1 scoop of oats and conditioning mix. He is actually Thoroughbred X Warmblood
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Well you need to start weighing it, otherwise you don't actually know what his intake is. If he is such a good doer that you can't feed ad lib hay, why does he get oats and conditioning mix :confused:

Mine is tbxwb too but much finer than your boy, he has always done better on as close to ad lib forage as possible, a supplement to provide his vits and mins, and no hard feed!
 
Miss L Toe said:
They are not 50 : 50 what people have said is that your horse is too lean, and it is difficult to know how much leaner he would be if he was only getting what you want to feed him, at no point have you given us any reason why he can't get enough to eat.
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I wouldnt let him get any leaner as i have already said, if he loses any condition now that the extra feed has stopped i will add more hay to his diet if he needs it as that is not an issue
 
OP does he get a morning feed, could you change him onto a mixture of part hay part haylage? Can he stay out on good grass for longer each day or 24hrs if weather good?
What conditioning mix are you using? And why the scoop of oats?
 
That is the key - weigh the hay once it's in a haynet !! The hook weigh things you can get are fab for that. Then you at least have a point to start at :)
 
rhino said:
Well you need to start weighing it, otherwise you don't actually know what his intake is. If he is such a good doer that you can't feed ad lib hay, why does he get oats and conditioning mix :confused:

Mine is tbxwb too but much finer than your boy, he has always done better on as close to ad lib forage as possible, a supplement to provide his vits and mins, and no hard feed!
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When he was given adlib hay last year he piled the weight on which is why he is restricted this year
 
You Wont Forget Me said:
We dont weigh it, he is given a stuffed haynet at night, aswell as 1 scoop of oats and conditioning mix. He is actually Thoroughbred X Warmblood
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Half a scoop of conditioning mix will not meet his daily requirements for minerals and vitamins. If he does not get these, he will not be able to make best use of his forage or his oats.
I recognise a brick wall when I see it.
 
I would suggest upping his forage slightly - I agree with the general concensus, which is that he isn't skinny, just a little lean. But I think the leanness could well be due to lack of muscle and, as someone else said, that may be because he is burning muscle rather than fat. If you want him to build up muscle, then obviously this is counterproductive. I wouldn't suggest increasing his hard feed though.
For a horse like yours, I wouldn't think that ad-lib forage would be harmful. He doesn't look like he's ever going to be a fatty and, if he is in a reasonable amount of work, you will probably find that he stays at a good weight. My sister spent all winter keeping her pony on a very strict diet because he was on box rest and the sort that you'd call a lami-risk, but he's now at a rehab facility (sure some HHO'ers will know where) and is fed ad-lib haylage during the day and is out in the field all night. Yet his weight looks wonderful, because he is now in work. I certainly think you could give your boy another, maybe smaller net without it doing any harm at all.
 
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