[154267]
...
Breaking my own rule to say yes, quite possibly, but I have to say I'd be more worried about her with a herd of cows than a couple of horses!
My teenager wants to offer horse care service - some questions for you all
- Thread starter [154267]
- Start date
honetpot
Well-Known Member
It's funny how times change, I left school at sixteen and worked on a yard and my sister left school at fifteen to work in a hairdressers. When I went for my job interview I travel nearly 200 miles on my own, and when I started work I think the main work supervision was teaching me how to plait and clip, as it was hunter livery other wise you were left on your own, I shared a cottage with another teenager and we made all our own food. There wasn't really enough money to have a social life, excitement was walking to the pub for a lager.
You can drive a car and a tractor and trailer at seventeen, up to 3.5 tonne. They are discussing giving sixteen year olds the vote.
Could a Saturday teenager work on your farm? - Farmers Weekly
A traditional rite of passage into the world of work for schoolchildren could be a solution for livestock farmers trying to attract new people into the
Some the most responsible adults I know started work as soon as they could, were as some of the most socially inept have a degree or even a PHD. I encouraged both of my daughters to work as soon as possible because life does not owe you a living and even though they both have a degree a lot of the skills they have come from jobs they did as teenagers.
IMO if you want to learn quickly working on a good yard that has high standards were you work realistic equine care working hours not only gives you good base skills but also helps you decide if its the career for you. Our local equine college the gates were locked until nine, no one on the yard, and had ragwort in the field year after year.
Last edited:
paddy555
Well-Known Member
but you don't just walk into a herd of cattle, as with all animals you learn about safety and how to work with them and how to read them. If your area is remote and it is difficult to get holiday etc care then perhaps there would be a job opportunity for someone taking care of different sorts of animals as well as horses
.
I always had difficulty in finding anyone if I wanted to go away to rides who could not only look after horses but could also look after and milk my goats, milk my house cow, deal with my calves etc.
Many people with horses also have other farm type animals so knowledge of sheep, poultry and anything else would provide a better service for them. We used to move into a farm to baby sit a Charolais herd when the owner went away. It provided work and income.
You have to learn and no one expects a 17yo to do that now but the more experience you can get with other livestock the more opportunities there are.
[154267]
...
Agreed, lots of smallholders here too. She's actually not only thinking about horses, she has tons of experience with small animals & fish for example, and she's totally up for goats, chickens etc, but obviously it's horses that I asked about here
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
If she is 17, does she drive? As this opens up a load more opportunities. If not, could she concentrate on completing this?
At 17, I was working at different things. In fact, my first job was washing up in a local village hall, at age 14, cash in hand. At 18, I left school. I also did a 6 week placement at a major centre: it was tough but character building.
I am also confused. I think people's confusion is making you mad, although I'm not sure why.
I thought you meant the working with horse care and holiday cover, as did many others. Then you say not. But then you say that you thought of this on the back of going away for a couple of weeks yourself, and not being able to get holiday cover for when you are away. So it was for people on holiday?
I did informal horse care for people on my yard at a young age, but it seems this is not available for your daughter as there are no suitable yards.
Personally, if she does not need to be in education right now, and cannot do further training for whatever reason, and there is no suitable supervised equine role available within travelling distance, then I would say to have her a more local job, such as working in a shop or whatever. I say this from the presumption that your daughter lacks confidence (can't face returning to education yet can't move away for training opportunities)?
I did many different jobs as a teen. I did shop work, drove for a motor auction, worked in a bank, worked as a vet receptionist and worked ats a cleaner in a supermarket. These were all excellent jobs to give me a grounding and give confidence. At 18, the 6 week residential course got me my BHS AI, so I did some teaching work. Could she do a couple of residential courses? A 6 week course would be less intimidatory than a longer term, perhaps?
For an unskilled worker, I would give minimum wage, or £10 an hour of I thought they were good.
At 17, I was working at different things. In fact, my first job was washing up in a local village hall, at age 14, cash in hand. At 18, I left school. I also did a 6 week placement at a major centre: it was tough but character building.
I am also confused. I think people's confusion is making you mad, although I'm not sure why.
I thought you meant the working with horse care and holiday cover, as did many others. Then you say not. But then you say that you thought of this on the back of going away for a couple of weeks yourself, and not being able to get holiday cover for when you are away. So it was for people on holiday?
I did informal horse care for people on my yard at a young age, but it seems this is not available for your daughter as there are no suitable yards.
Personally, if she does not need to be in education right now, and cannot do further training for whatever reason, and there is no suitable supervised equine role available within travelling distance, then I would say to have her a more local job, such as working in a shop or whatever. I say this from the presumption that your daughter lacks confidence (can't face returning to education yet can't move away for training opportunities)?
I did many different jobs as a teen. I did shop work, drove for a motor auction, worked in a bank, worked as a vet receptionist and worked ats a cleaner in a supermarket. These were all excellent jobs to give me a grounding and give confidence. At 18, the 6 week residential course got me my BHS AI, so I did some teaching work. Could she do a couple of residential courses? A 6 week course would be less intimidatory than a longer term, perhaps?
For an unskilled worker, I would give minimum wage, or £10 an hour of I thought they were good.
Fire sign
Well-Known Member
I think the big issue with very young people is not so much that they lack experience or common sense ( although they often do ) but that some of them have a pretty feeble work ethic. I speak from my own experience as I was completely hopeless at everything until I was in my mid twenties .. I worked at a lot of teenage jobs back in the olden days , wobbled up the main road on a paper round at 12 , worked in a fish and chip shop at 14 years old ( no health and safety back then , exposure to boiling hot fat and no food hygiene training!) worked at a riding school at 13 ( lots of fun , swinging on a rope in the hay barn , galloping down the road on runaway ponies , hay making and muck spreading from a trailer , someone got a pitchfork in the foot ) However … all teenagers are not alike .. if your daughter was absolutely brilliant at mucking out and did a fantastic job , if she could read and follow a list of instructions to the letter, if she could turn up on time every day and if she was honest and kind and did everything to the very best of her ability and her parents were prepared to transport her about and step in if things went wrong …. then yes maybe I would give her a chance …
[154267]
...
So I'm still here, why do I do this to myself
. She's nearly 16, planning hopefully to start something when she is 16 and can therefore get insurance as linked up thread. I can think of circumstances where holiday cover would be perfectly OK, eg on shared DIY yards where she could do the donkey work and the owner has a trusted fellow livery "on call" for emergencies. But I would not ever anticipate her being in the position of having sole care for someone's horses and all that potentially entails (this logic makes sense to me, but perhaps only me ).Preferable would be a few regular jobs for people who just need a hand one or two days a week. That makes it much easier all round, she has a routine, and as she and the owners build trust then she can probably just be dropped off (bearing in mind that depending on distance it would be easier to wait in the car for her anyway). I wasn't sure how common that scenario might be, but it sounds like a possible goer.
Academic qualifications are a problem for her right now and a lack of these rules her out of applying for quite a few things. Don't want to go into it really but she's had a really late diagnosis of something that explains so much about why school was such torture for so many years
. This does not affect her ability to do the things I've outlined, and getting her Stage 1 - which involved being put on the spot in front of a group to answer questions - was a massive achievement for her. Learning the content was easy, passing that oral exam was the hardest thing she's ever done and she's in no hurry to go through it again.I've not much enjoyed the contempt dripping from some posts about a child her age not being in full time education and yes, perhaps this makes me defensive. We are where we are and believe me I have been fighting the system for years.
There you go, my life story on a plate. I have to walk the dogs now
Last edited:
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
I wonder if, rather than trying to pick up bits of work here and there (which may or may not be easy in your area, and that's assuming clients who aren't awkward about payment etc.), it might be more effective to find a job with some regular hours and wages to help your daughter get into a routine? Perhaps in time she could then get herself started with driving lessons and/or saving for a car. If you're really rurally located it seems like her being able to drive will really help open things up for her over the next few years.
I would not have assumed parental supervision from the initial posts because neither of my parents would have been able to transport me to multiple places, multiple times during the day or week, so that wouldn't have entered my mind that it would be possible. I did get dropped off at the riding school on a Saturday to help out but that's a different scenario (one I count myself lucky to have had).
I would not have assumed parental supervision from the initial posts because neither of my parents would have been able to transport me to multiple places, multiple times during the day or week, so that wouldn't have entered my mind that it would be possible. I did get dropped off at the riding school on a Saturday to help out but that's a different scenario (one I count myself lucky to have had).
paddy555
Well-Known Member
totally agree about work ethic but this. When I was about 15 i saw all the working pupil jobs in H & H. Those had my name on. Carried on at school. When I had a 2 month wait to join the CS I had to earn a living so took a job with horses. I have never ever hated a job so much. Once I was in the reality of working with horses and the novelty wore off it was very different from that wonderful childhood dream that I liked animals especially horses and wanted to spend all day looking after them.
I think BM that people comment about not being in education because many of us are in England where the school leaving age is 18 so it is surprising to us.
[154267]
...
I certainly can't transport her around as I work (very) full time, but her Dad is retired and has been informed that he can
. That is once my son has *his* driving licence as at the moment he is being ferried to work and back by one of us at all hours of the day and night (we get three buses a day, and none that get there early enough or leave the town late enough). We've also done plenty of Saturday "helping out" ferrying ourselves over the years, that's why I know we can't possibly do that journey twice daily, as well as the concerns I mentioned. I wish there was a well-run professional yard anywhere close by but there just isn't.Yes ideally a regular job but see limitations above. Without a personal contact she'll get sifted out by the computer/HR on the first look. Gone are the days when you could just walk into a shop with a CV. There are possibilities where my son works once she's 16 but she wants to mix this up with animal work because that's what she loves. I'm just helping her do the research to see if it will fly at all. It may, it may not, I think it will do her good to try.
Last edited:
Exasperated
Well-Known Member
Hopefully, she’ll manage to get some useful experience and work, sounds a motivated young lady.
Recently and fairly locally, private yard, owner’s adult daughters went off cantering round an adjoining field, leaving a teenage girl poo picking in with a retired pony and small Shetland. These two revved up, wall of death stuff, knocked over the wheelbarrow, which knocked teenager off her feet - all witnessed by a horrified neighbour.
She was ok, Shetland had cut itself on the barrow, and the poor girl then got bawled out by the owner’s daughters - unbelievable, make sure your lass is as protected as she reasonably can be. Horse owners are not necessarily responsible employers, either
[154267]
...
Wow, yes indeed. Some people are awful.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
I feel she shouldn't just focus on horses. My parents encouraged me to get A levels and im glad they did as I realised working with horses absolutely wasn't for me and now I dont even have any involvement with them as fell completely and utterly out of love with them
You may say its all she wants to do/cant see anything other than horses, but things can change, I wouldn't have thought id fall out of love with them when I was 16, the thought was incomprehensible
How about a Saturday job in a shop or anything she could do in a local pub? My biggest trouble getting my first main job was everywhere wanted experience. Which of course as id just finished college, outside of my Saturday job, I didnt have!
Something that involves working with customers would add customer service to her repertoire (dealing with tricky people, helping different ranges of people) also it would display reliability if she regularly turns up (on time), develops initiative (e.g. tidying a display thats been messed up rather than waiting to be asked), is flexible (e.g of something still needs doing not just leaving bang on time)
Another option is is there an animal sanctuary she could volunteer at? This would build her experience around different kinds of animals, and also ones who need extra help e.g are poorly/need their trust rebuilding. In time they may even show her some of the basics e.g. dressing changes etc. Or is there a vet she could contact for work experience? Again turning up to a volunteer role would show commitment to me because theres no major incentive to turn up as its unpaid
There's a whole world outside horses and most horse related jobs sound pretty grim tbh, she may also want to keep them just as a hobby
If she built her repertoire around different animals, she could possibly in the future register as a trusted house sitter. Id want someone older though for that, especially leaving them alone in charge of both my house and cats. We have house cats so I need to be fully sure anyone who stays doesnt do something as simple as leave a window open. Plus if you're staying in my home, you have access to my jewellery and all my possessions so I want to be absolutely sure the person is trustworthy. I think trusted house sitters have a DBS, which you can get after 16. Fortunately I didn't have to go down that route, as our neighbour is a registered pet sitter it was terrifying me the thought of using someone I didn't know anything about
Getting a Saturday job at somewhere like a pub/shop would also give her a reference. Same with a volunteer role
Id also be worried about a 16 year old in terms of safeguarding, and wouldn't just want her going to random yards, she'd be safer in a proper employed role/apprenticeship
I dont have horses, but would i leave a 16 year old to house sit my cats and house or even check in on them? No im afraid I wouldn't
You may say its all she wants to do/cant see anything other than horses, but things can change, I wouldn't have thought id fall out of love with them when I was 16, the thought was incomprehensible
How about a Saturday job in a shop or anything she could do in a local pub? My biggest trouble getting my first main job was everywhere wanted experience. Which of course as id just finished college, outside of my Saturday job, I didnt have!
Something that involves working with customers would add customer service to her repertoire (dealing with tricky people, helping different ranges of people) also it would display reliability if she regularly turns up (on time), develops initiative (e.g. tidying a display thats been messed up rather than waiting to be asked), is flexible (e.g of something still needs doing not just leaving bang on time)
Another option is is there an animal sanctuary she could volunteer at? This would build her experience around different kinds of animals, and also ones who need extra help e.g are poorly/need their trust rebuilding. In time they may even show her some of the basics e.g. dressing changes etc. Or is there a vet she could contact for work experience? Again turning up to a volunteer role would show commitment to me because theres no major incentive to turn up as its unpaid
There's a whole world outside horses and most horse related jobs sound pretty grim tbh, she may also want to keep them just as a hobby
If she built her repertoire around different animals, she could possibly in the future register as a trusted house sitter. Id want someone older though for that, especially leaving them alone in charge of both my house and cats. We have house cats so I need to be fully sure anyone who stays doesnt do something as simple as leave a window open. Plus if you're staying in my home, you have access to my jewellery and all my possessions so I want to be absolutely sure the person is trustworthy. I think trusted house sitters have a DBS, which you can get after 16. Fortunately I didn't have to go down that route, as our neighbour is a registered pet sitter it was terrifying me the thought of using someone I didn't know anything about
Getting a Saturday job at somewhere like a pub/shop would also give her a reference. Same with a volunteer role
Id also be worried about a 16 year old in terms of safeguarding, and wouldn't just want her going to random yards, she'd be safer in a proper employed role/apprenticeship
I dont have horses, but would i leave a 16 year old to house sit my cats and house or even check in on them? No im afraid I wouldn't
[154267]
...
Yes to so many of those things, once she's at least 16! She's not all about horses at all, in fact I don't think she does necessarily want to work with horses long term. Definitely not on a commercial yard. She's already seen enough and done enough there to know it isn't for her (although never say never, as I said these are not terribly well run places). What she would really like is to train as a vet nurse but there are so many hurdles for her to overcome before that's a reality. Volunteering at a local vets is definitely on her wish list but places are very hard to come by. Local animal shelter currently only taking on volunteers (over 18) to do fundraising.
I must sound really negative. Point is so much thinking has been done and continues to be done.
I must sound really negative. Point is so much thinking has been done and continues to be done.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Boarding kennels/catteries?
Loosehorse!
Active Member
I'm sure the girl could be very capable, no qualms there - from my point of view though, I just can't see this being a long term arrangement. She will get a little older and want a proper job with proper money and then I'd be looking for a new groom again. For that reason, I'm out. But wish her all the best with her career
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I think what has happened is that the people most in need of/most use holiday cover are those that have horses at home which does then lead to a sole charge/permission to make medical decisions including PTS comes in. My experience of DIY yards has mostly been mutual exchange.
Overall I think it's great she is thinking about what she can do
.
Overall I think it's great she is thinking about what she can do
.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
That makes a lot more sense. I do understand the complexities of navigating the schools system and how difficult it can be to get any help.So I'm still here, why do I do this to myself
Preferable would be a few regular jobs for people who just need a hand one or two days a week. That makes it much easier all round, she has a routine, and as she and the owners build trust then she can probably just be dropped off (bearing in mind that depending on distance it would be easier to wait in the car for her anyway). I wasn't sure how common that scenario might be, but it sounds like a possible goer.
Academic qualifications are a problem for her right now and a lack of these rules her out of applying for quite a few things. Don't want to go into it really but she's had a really late diagnosis of something that explains so much about why school was such torture for so many years
I've not much enjoyed the contempt dripping from some posts about a child her age not being in full time education and yes, perhaps this makes me defensive. We are where we are and believe me I have been fighting the system for years.
There you go, my life story on a plate. I have to walk the dogs now
Yes, it was cover on a big yard that I did as a young teen. Plenty of people to ask for help if I struggled. The owner would know I could go to the YO ultimately, but could do the donkey work. If it were a horse I could ride, I didn't charge as I liked the extra experience. I was actually on that yard with my own horse, so the owners already knew me.
This. My initial jobs were not fancy but were regular. I would have died a death if I'd been expected to manage to do bar work or waitressing. Shop work and cleaning were about where my confidence levels were at that time. My first BF did a good time shelf stacking in the late evening when the shops were shut. We both ended up as good wage earners, so a small start can set you up well.
I can quite understand not wanting to do any more BHS exams. I'm told that they have changed in recent years, but when I took them, they were dire LOL. I even did an "Instructor of the Year" round in the not so distant past and the adjudicator was awful, rude about people who had disabilities. Called them a really rude name, and laughed at them. I have had nothing to do with the BHS since. I didn't report him as I'm sure it would simply have been seen as sour grapes as someone else won that round. he was one of the 'old boys' in the network.
Good luck!
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
I need to be careful how much I share but I have a story in mind from my experience supporting a young person who had, for various reasons, had disrupted school education. She was in her early 20s when I was in contact with her and was at an FE college working up through the levels of animal care qualification. When I stopped being in contact with her, she was in process of picking her choice of unconditional university offers for vet nursing. Undoubtedly things had not been easy, and there will be challenges ahead, but I am smiling now remembering my time with her and knowing she will be starting one of those university courses about now.
Absolutely never say never! Your daughter has parents wanting to help her find her way in life, that's a cracking good start that many young people don't have.
Jambarissa
Well-Known Member
I used to pay a 15 year old I knew well and would have no problem doing it again. That was for up to a weeks holiday cover BUT I am on a large DIY yard with lots of friends who would happily step in if an issue arose. Normally we cover for each other but I have 3 and they all have 1 so I'd rather pay someone officially and ask then to keep an eye out.
For your daughter I'd imagine there'll be plenty of work if she's cheaper or more available than the alternative. That is always the case. I'd think the ideal would be for her to help someone rather than take sole charge, I spent several years as a teen helping an older woman in my village with all the heavy tasks rather than looking after her horses.
For your daughter I'd imagine there'll be plenty of work if she's cheaper or more available than the alternative. That is always the case. I'd think the ideal would be for her to help someone rather than take sole charge, I spent several years as a teen helping an older woman in my village with all the heavy tasks rather than looking after her horses.
maya2008
Well-Known Member
How experienced with horses is her dad? I ask because my son has ‘worked’ with horses schooling ponies - but in actual fact it was me who was asked to help, with him as jockey.
[154267]
...
Not going to lie, he would be there as taxi and in a safeguarding/safety capacity if she was otherwise on her own, just as he often is when she does her own ponies. But I think we've already established many times over that some people think it is OK for a teen to do jobs for people when they're not there and some people don't. And that's fine, all she can do is see what is out there.
Last edited:
kerrieberry2
Well-Known Member
my friends daughter, who is 17 in November this year, and has just started Equine college comes to our yard to help a few people with poo picking, haying, and topping up water! she doesn't do things like bring in or turn out etc. but everyone pays her £15 a hour and she does as much as she can in that hour for them.
[154267]
...
Amazing (and terrifying) to think that some places have 11 year old kids bringing in and turning out
. 14 year olds handling two 17hh at a time, etc. Really quite scary.tristars
Well-Known Member
Explain to her she needs to
Be able to get there and back needs to drive if poss
Study what can go wrong and how to deal with varied situations, what to say to vet, how to keep herself safe during even simple tasks, turning out etc
How to follow written instructions and make notes of same, work out routines etc. Follow instructions to perfection, not just say yer yer, cause if hear that I know it is not sinking in.
Offer to train a little with a customer, so everyone has confidence in leaving in charge, some are super keen and good from the off, others well you just know it won't work
Show up with boots, gloves wellies, hat.
Know when there it is to work and pay 100 per cent to the job in hand
Study the insurance now for future
she sounds a super keen young un
Be able to get there and back needs to drive if poss
Study what can go wrong and how to deal with varied situations, what to say to vet, how to keep herself safe during even simple tasks, turning out etc
How to follow written instructions and make notes of same, work out routines etc. Follow instructions to perfection, not just say yer yer, cause if hear that I know it is not sinking in.
Offer to train a little with a customer, so everyone has confidence in leaving in charge, some are super keen and good from the off, others well you just know it won't work
Show up with boots, gloves wellies, hat.
Know when there it is to work and pay 100 per cent to the job in hand
Study the insurance now for future
she sounds a super keen young un
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Snap. I lasted a year, learnt an awful lot from basic stud work, showing and hunter care, but quickly realised I was never going to make enough money to have any life, and in the 70's unless you where extremely talented or had money behind you it wasn't a realistic career choice. I think equine colleges are just time filler before most until realise they would be better doing something else, or go on to run a yard badly.
What is did do which I am ever grateful for, is show me how old established money lives in a bubble of niceness because they are so cushioned from basic choices about life’s necessities. We had an account at the local shop and ate a lot of cornflakes, so we were bought a case so that the housekeeper could give us boxes instead.
I met some lovely people who lived houses that were like something out a Jilly Cooper novel, with the horses, and cars to match.
[154267]
...
It's hard to imagine anyone who owns horses being cushioned from basic choices about life's necessities... Walking money pits so they are 
Mari
Well-Known Member
I injured myself (not horse related) & haven’t been able to do the basic horse care but could be there & supervise. 3 retirees kept at home. I found a great girl to come 1-2 hours a day, on my insurance, to muck out, poo pick, do nets & keep everything tidy, just whatever needed doing. I paid £12 an hour. She was so good that I’m keeping her on for 2 hrs one day a week with a view to maybe getting away for a few days & her doing the “holiday” cover. I would suggest your daughter target the horses kept at home situations, it took me ages to find the girl I’ve got & she only agreed initially to help me while I was injured but has now agreed to keep me on as the set up is good & well organised. Good luck.
Annagain
Well-Known Member
When I was about 14-16, over 30 years ago, my sister and I ran a "pet sitting service". We stuck an advert in the post office window every school holidays offering to feed cats, rabbits, hamsters etc and to walk dogs (we were walking our own dog anyway). It was all in walking distance from the house and filled our summer holidays. We had no insurance, no qualifications and only experience with our own animals. I would have done horses too if I could have got to them, although my sister is't horsey. It was great, we earned a lot of money and had lots of repeat customers, including the post office owners. We'd call in every day pick up their house keys, collect the dog from their house round the corner, take him out with ours and drop him back. I loved it and pet owners got a great (even if I do say so myself) service cheaply.
Would I employ a local teenager now? Hell no....Not because I don't trust them or don't think they'd be good enough but because times have changed and not necessarily all for the better but we are where we are. Personally, I would be very reluctant to engage anyone under 18 in a contract for services. I would be terrified of getting sued should something go wrong.
My 13 year old niece walks my dog all the time, she's one of his favourite people and she adores him. I never leave home when she's walking the dog at the playing fields round the corner from my house. One phone call and I can be there in 2 minutes. Again this isn't because I don't trust her but because it's not fair to put someone so young in a position of such responsibility. She also comes and mucks out with me and handles Wiggy with my supervision (she's small for her age and rides 13hh ponies in a riding school. As gentle as he is, Wig is a 16.2 maxi cob). I would however never pay a 16 year old not in my own family or my friends' families (basically the ones I know would never sue me) to do either of these things without supervision, which doesn't help as I would need someone who can be there when I can't.
Would I employ a local teenager now? Hell no....Not because I don't trust them or don't think they'd be good enough but because times have changed and not necessarily all for the better but we are where we are. Personally, I would be very reluctant to engage anyone under 18 in a contract for services. I would be terrified of getting sued should something go wrong.
My 13 year old niece walks my dog all the time, she's one of his favourite people and she adores him. I never leave home when she's walking the dog at the playing fields round the corner from my house. One phone call and I can be there in 2 minutes. Again this isn't because I don't trust her but because it's not fair to put someone so young in a position of such responsibility. She also comes and mucks out with me and handles Wiggy with my supervision (she's small for her age and rides 13hh ponies in a riding school. As gentle as he is, Wig is a 16.2 maxi cob). I would however never pay a 16 year old not in my own family or my friends' families (basically the ones I know would never sue me) to do either of these things without supervision, which doesn't help as I would need someone who can be there when I can't.
[154267]
...
I don't dispute your logic at all, but having got some info I'm now interested in some of the general points raised in this thread.
In particular I wonder if placing such emphasis (in England) on kids staying in education until they're at least 18 is altering societal perceptions. As someone mentioned above, by law 16 year olds can drive a tractor on the roads among many other things. They aren't babies and I'm not sure it does them any favours to treat them as such. (And in my experience teenagers who are daft at 16 are still equally daft at 18, probably because no one will let them grow up!)