naughty nappy horse, a winter issue? any suggestions?**long!**

charlie76

charlie76

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Right this might get long! I bought in September last year a very big , weak and poor WB x ISH, five yr old, he was apparently just backed. I have no reason to disbelieve this. We tried him and he was very green but willing, we rode him in the school briefly and then hacked him on his own, when we rode him past the yard he half thought about ducking in but didn't. Bought him and started to bring him on slowly. When I first rode him in the school at home I was plesantly surprised as he was very balanced and worked on the bit in all three paces. He maybe had done a little more than initially thought?
We spent a long time hacking him, gentle school work, small jumps , lunging and long reining. He started to look better and was seemingly straight forward and willing, we continued with working him quietly and all was well, got to November, clipped him and within a week he went from being a sweet easy horse to a nappy sod. It started in the school where he suddenly decided he wouldn't go up one end, we sorted this and then he would just randomly nap in the school, he the n started doing it out hacking, he would even nap in the middle of the ride, went back to basics but still he did it and got worse , he would reverse into cars, through bushes etc. To long rein he was perfect. He would even do it coming back into the yard!! We tried everything, all through the winter, in the end a dealer friend came and rode him, it was now spring! He did it with him and he got him going and got him out of the yard and he had been fine ever since, all through the summer, hacking out alone, working well in the school, not a hint of it.
Thought it was sorted, until two weeks ago. He was clipped again and within three days he had started it again, only this time he is much bigger and fitter. He drops his shoulder, reverses or spins round, if you try and turn him he rears,lands and bucks. He won't leave the yard, he does it coming back in the yard, he does it in the school, toward the gate and away from it, if you smack him he gets worse. If you kick him he reverses faster or bucks bigger. Once he starts he won't follow another horse. Again he is fine to lunge and long rein.
Its almost a year to the day when he first started it, we thought it was cured as he was great all over the summer.
His eyes, teeth, saddle, back etc have all been checked. He past a five stage vetting eight weeks before he started it the first time.
He has just a handful of nuts and chaff to eat. Ad lib hay at night, in at night, out during the day, he has hay before riding.
The horse moves superbly so can't see its a pain issue.
Not sure what else to do with him,
Any suggestions before we BBQ him!!
All riders that ride him are good riders, male and female.
 
Have you clipped him right out? A friend had an issue with theirs a few years back when she clipped his back, turned into a complete nightmare. Clip grew back and she didn't clip over his back again and he was fine. Same happened the following year so she just leave a saddle patch now. She did speak to the vet, he just thinks its him being a over sensitive little ******!
 
What clip has he got? He sounds very similar to my mare. I find she is better when she is worked in an exercise sheet. It may also be worth using a girthsleeve on him.
 
The only thing I can think is its the clip, he is clipped out but does where a sheep skin pad and saddle cloth. He isn't in the least sensitive to groom, rug or tack up,you can scrub him with a stiff brush with no reaction. Puzzling
Oh and he wears an exercise sheet most of the time.
He has a dressage saddle and jump saddle and does it in both.
 
Is there any way you could just lunge him until his hair grows back?

Have you thought about trying an animal communicator
 
As anything else changed (turnout time, field, exercise ie more schooling than hacking)?

If not I'd assume clip and maybe put sheepskin directly on his skin, double up exercise sheet and see if that helps.

If that doesn't work it may be worth considering environmental issues that are only present in winter - could be the cold / wet / lack of something.

Hope he gets better soon.
 
I bet he's cold!

Roo is a complete nightmare when he's cold. He's normally gentle and laidback but if he gets cold (I.e when the silly sod looses his rug and gets all wet) he's tense, irritable, sharp and silly. I know the feeling. I get cold easily and then my muscles become tight, skin overly sensitive and I'm massively grumpy.

Not sure how you'd combat it if you've clipped hin out completely. An exercise sheet definitely but maybe a lycra hood too, until he's warmed up?


Also, does it coenside with him being stabled more? Ulcers may be an issue?
 
Mine gets grumpy in the winter and is a very happy in the summer. He was always rugged but if tend to rug on the cool side, this year rugging up toasty warm and a much happier horse, exercise sheet when ridden on cold days, I make sure that I quarter groom and saddle is on for as long as possible before I get on, ie it's the first thing that goes on- I don't do the girth up cover up with a rug, groom, do girth up, put bridle on, tighten girth. I've cut back on hard feed and feed ad-lib hay, don't know if it will continue though the winter but this time the past 2years I would have rearing, leaping and a little s*d to deal with now I've got a total saint.
 
Leg_end said:
As anything else changed (turnout time, field, exercise ie more schooling than hacking)?

If not I'd assume clip and maybe put sheepskin directly on his skin, double up exercise sheet and see if that helps.

If that doesn't work it may be worth considering environmental issues that are only present in winter - could be the cold / wet / lack of something.

Hope he gets better soon.
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He is well rugged at all times , I will try a sheepskin next to his skin. He isn't mine anymore but still with me so I want to help sort him, its really odd as he has been a saint until now
 
Costypop said:
Mine gets grumpy in the winter and is a very happy in the summer. He was always rugged but if tend to rug on the cool side, this year rugging up toasty warm and a much happier horse, exercise sheet when ridden on cold days, I make sure that I quarter groom and saddle is on for as long as possible before I get on, ie it's the first thing that goes on- I don't do the girth up cover up with a rug, groom, do girth up, put bridle on, tighten girth. I've cut back on hard feed and feed ad-lib hay, don't know if it will continue though the winter but this time the past 2years I would have rearing, leaping and a little s*d to deal with now I've got a total saint.
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He's never girthy to tack up and wears two rugs in the field and three at night.
 
charlie76 said:
wears two rugs in the field and three at night.
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That may be part of the problem. He's gone from layers of toasty warm rugs to basically naked for being ridden. He'll be bloody freezing. It must be like stripping off your ski suit to go for a jog round the block in your swim suit, in mid winter. Sure, he'll warm up eventually but his muscles will be cold and tense for ages.
 
charlie76 said:
Will do, his is waterproof with a thick fleece lining but I have a wool one too
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Natural fibres are far warmer than man made fibres so worth a try. Some horses do feel the cold desperately, I always use a wool stable rug over a linen sheet then the rest of my rugs during the winter. The closer the wool is to their skin the warmer they are.
 
Exercise sheets are fine for keeping the large driving muscles warm but they do next to nothing to keep a horse physically warm for the simple reason horses don't lose much heat through that area. Don't believe me? Look at horses unrugged in snowy weather - they often have unmelted snow on their backs and quarters. Horses lose the most heat through the areas that have long hair and where they sweat the most, on the neck and between the hind legs.

I have a client with a horse that is insane when she's cold, even outside of clipping season. Last winter she was horrendously tense after clipping, this year she's still woolly thus far and will only have the bare minimum off, at least to start.

I had a horse in Canada that couldn't cope in the cold. He didn't grow much of a coat - although that's not necessarily connected - and got unridably tense. I made him a neck cover (out of a skirt. . ..) which made a huge difference. He wore his stable rug - surcingles tied up, front rolled back over my legs - until we were ready to trot and I didn't let him stand around much once we started.

I know that's not what you wanted to hear but I would not rule out cold. I always hated getting clipped horses to back in the winter as they always struggled more with their lessons than the furry ones.
 
Have you started using an exercise sheet immediately after clipping both times? I have heard of a horse that reacted really badly to the nylon linings of rugs - believed to be caused by small static shocks that sent him mad. Cotton lining solved it. So think good idea to try the wool exercise sheet instead of the fleece lined. Also worth trying without the sheet just in case it is causing restriction/discomfort in some way.
 
What kind of work does he do and how furry does he get? Would it be possible to let his coat grow back and simply not clip him? I don't clip and my horse works 5-6 days per week. If I do an hour of dressage, she gets sweaty but she is fit and she just wears a cooler that goes all the way up to her ears for a little while after the ride. It's faffy, but so is dealing with clipped horses and exercise sheets. This is what everyone did at my barn in Colorado, as nobody clipped their horse.

Obviously if you are doing intense work like hunting or if you are showing or some such, you will have to clip. But if you are not doing any of those things, it might be worth leaving him furry and seeing what happens.
 
charlie76 said:
He's never girthy to tack up and wears two rugs in the field and three at night.
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Mine isn't girthy at all, I just do my best to make sure that I don't shock him when sticking a cold girth/saddle/bit on him as I know he likes to be warm.

How about putting on the exercise sheet then throwing whatever rug he was wearing back over the top while grooming/tacking up then it's not too much of a shock of cold.
 
Sorry, I'm a bit confused.....you mentioned 'we' but who rides him....?

You mention 'riders are both male/female and good riders'.

Is his main rider you and then when this behaviour starts again do you get someone else to ride him?

Can you explain this a little more....therein may lie a clue.......
 
Mine is an ID x WB, and been through a couple of nappy phases (nothing too dramatic, that would be faaaar too much effort), all were in winter time. He is a very 'hot' horse - as in heat, not temperament - and spends most of his life being toasty. The few times he has been nasty nappy it's been when it's been very very cold - he was grumpy and tense and didn't want to play.
I would try lunging (in a walker sheet??) or horse walker before riding, and as much exercise sheet as you can manage - get his body temperature up before you get on and then get him moving.

I did a few sessions of a quick 10 minute walk/trot/canter in the school before a hack and then straight on to a big posting trot on the road - it got him warm, thinking forward and ready to go, rather than going straight from warm stable to walking out into the cold.
 
Sorry nothing to add with regards to a solution. My TB mare can be like this in the winter, she was an absolute witch to school this weekend. This thread has got me thinking she may have a similar problem. She is clipped and well rugged but I do tend to whip rugs off, tack up and go!

Excuse my ignorance but if you don't use an exercise sheet would the behavior not improve as she/he warms up or is it a case of if you start them cold they will continue the session in that manner?
 
I make a point of taking my jacket off to ride anything that's been wearing a heavy rug, and riding in a fleece. It's warm enough when I'm working but reminds me it's no fun for a neatly naked horse in the colder weather.
 
Yours does sound a bit extreme, but mine are all way naughtier and fresher in the Winter generally and they have no clips yet. It could simply be this.. I may just wait till it's warm and they go nicely sluggish.
 
Tonks said:
Sorry, I'm a bit confused.....you mentioned 'we' but who rides him....?

You mention 'riders are both male/female and good riders'.

Is his main rider you and then when this behaviour starts again do you get someone else to ride him?

Can you explain this a little more....therein may lie a clue.......
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He was mine and my husbands horse, a friend of mine rode him through the summer ( she bought him knowing full well of his winter issue and his napping as she started riding him when he was doing it last year) she fell in love with him and bought him, up until now he has been going brilliantly for her.

Little update, took on board the rug and cold comments, today she put the wool rug on him, and another rug on top and rode him like it, he didn't put a foot wrong, so maybe it is that? Will try again tomorrow.
Not sure of this is relevant but last night after he was very naughty we lunged him for a good long while , she then got on him and rode him pretty hard and forward for a good session and he didn't sweat at all, I was stunned as he worked bloody hard, today , same sort of temperature, he was sweating after ten mins, all over.
He has struggled to build muscle and top line so I'm wondering if he has a muscle issue?
 
charlie76 said:
Not sure of this is relevant but last night after he was very naughty we lunged him for a good long while , she then got on him and rode him pretty hard and forward for a good session and he didn't sweat at all, I was stunned as he worked bloody hard, today , same sort of temperature, he was sweating after ten mins, all over.
He has struggled to build muscle and top line so I'm wondering if he has a muscle issue?
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Worth a Cushing's test? That statement made me wonder...?

Re. the cold: if you determine that that does indeed seem to be the issue, I second Caol Ila in wondering if you need to clip at all. Yes, if they get very sweaty, the drying process can take a wee while, but rugs are a faff too, in their own way.
 
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