Neuro/pain/twitching

druid

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As good an outcome as you can hope for.

I diagnosed it in a Labrador here last year but it was a USA import with 50% USA bloodlines, I've never seen it in UK lines so it didn't jump to mind! Can you send me her pedigree out of interest? I'm in contact with the breed health co-ordinator and a researcher studying the disease and looking for a genetic marker
 

Clodagh

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Well there’s definitely more going on. A lot of behavioural change, she’s incredibly stressed. Shaking and panting. Heart rate normal. No signs of pain.
More bloods yesterday as vet picked up a faint heart murmur she hadn’t heard before. She had a calmex yesterday evening and actually settled but it’s obviously worn off this morning. I shut her in (with others) while I did a bit of training first thing and she’s got in such a state she’s left a great flood of saliva by the door. Same yesterday when I did some mowing. The rest are asleep in the shade now and she’s standing in front of me panting hard .
Referral appointment coming today hopefully.
 

AmyMay

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Oh Clodagh, what a terrible worry.

Just out of interest, had anything changed environmentally? Our neighbours have Peacocks and Guineafowl. Jack has decided (after a year) that the noise they sometimes make is terrifying and shakes uncontrollably when they start up.
 

Pearlsasinger

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It does sound like epilepsy, which in humans can take a great many forms. The fact that Calmex helped also points in that direction ime. I would ask the vet to investigate that route further. I do hope you get to the bottom of it for her and soon!
 

Clodagh

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Oh Clodagh, what a terrible worry.

Just out of interest, had anything changed environmentally? Our neighbours have Peacocks and Guineafowl. Jack has decided (after a year) that the noise they sometimes make is terrifying and shakes uncontrollably when they start up.
It’s very much like that, but nothing that I’m aware of. The other 7 are fine, too, and T is one of the most phlegmatic ones normally.
 

Clodagh

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Could it be a form of epilepsy? The shaking and saliva sound possibly indicative, hope you manage to get to the bottom of it soon
It does sound like epilepsy, which in humans can take a great many forms. The fact that Calmex helped also points in that direction ime. I would ask the vet to investigate that route further. I do hope you get to the bottom of it for her and soon!
One vet thought epilepsy, other not. Neuro person can toss the coin. It must be awful to be in such a state.
 

Pearlsasinger

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One vet thought epilepsy, other not. Neuro person can toss the coin. It must be awful to be in such a state.

Yes, poor girl and poor you, watching helplessly on. What did the vet who suggested epilepsy want to do about it? It can be difficult to diagnose in children, so even harder in dogs, I imagine.
 

Clodagh

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Yes, poor girl and poor you, watching helplessly on. What did the vet who suggested epilepsy want to do about it? It can be difficult to diagnose in children, so even harder in dogs, I imagine.
Well he was a second opinion man who deferred to the person who asked him to look. Apparently it is treatable, it’s just working out what drugs work. ?‍♀️
 

Pearlsasinger

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Well he was a second opinion man who deferred to the person who asked him to look. Apparently it is treatable, it’s just working out what drugs work. ?‍♀️

You mean even though they don't know what is causing the twitching, they can treat it? Not much point in paying for a 2nd opinion if he then says 'take no notice of me'!
 

Clodagh

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You mean even though they don't know what is causing the twitching, they can treat it? Not much point in paying for a 2nd opinion if he then says 'take no notice of me'!
No I meant if epilepsy is diagnosed it’s treatable.
He was another vet in the same practice. I had to get more bloods taken anyway so senior vet suggested I see someone else.
I haven’t gone elsewhere for more opinions as no point paying people when the next step is neurologist.
 

Cinnamontoast

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Not what I was hoping for as an update. ? I’m sorry your girl is not improving. I sincerely hope you get some definite answers soon.
 

twiggy2

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Have you spoken to the vets about trialing some epilepsy meds?
Also has anyone discused a brain tumour?
Its such a worry to see them dealing with this sort of thing.
Maz behaves like your describing when she is given certain pain meds and it's really ditressing to witness.
Fingers crossed you get to a point you are able to manage her symptoms.
 

Clodagh

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We have got a referral tomorrow morning to see neurologist and mri.
It’s so weird, she’s been distressed all day but I just got in from work and went to have a shower and she came upstairs and is playing with her toy, Hog.
They have mentioned brain tumour. Haven’t suggested epilepsy meds although I’ve got diazepam in case she fits, which she hasn’t.
 
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Pearlsasinger

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We have got a referral tomorrow morning to see neurologist and mri.
It’s so weird, she’s been distressed all day but I just got in from work and went to have a shower and she came upstairs and is playing with her toy, Hog.
They have mentioned brain tumour. Haven’t suggested epilepsy meds although I’ve got diazepam in case she fits, which she hasn’t.


It depends what they mean by a fit/seizure. I have seen epileptic seizures in people very similar to what you describe.
 

Clodagh

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How is she today?
I really hope it’s not a tumour. How is she doing now?
Any updates from the mri?

Thank you for asking. Neurologist completely stumped. He used lots of long words to say he was stumped.
Either an incredibly rare genetic disease previously unknown in Labradors, where the nerves in the brain go as though they have MND. (My best understanding, her symptoms fit it but it’s not treatable and only hitherto known in 2 breeds).
Or a tumour.
We decided against an MRI as it’s stress and a GA which isn’t going to be helpful.
We are managing the symptoms as they arise.
She’s on pain relief (although he’s positive she’s not in pain) and happy pills.
See how it goes.
 

YorksG

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So sorry to read the update, not helpful at all! Would your vet be prepared to medicate for epilepsy, as a trial? It might not help, but it would rule it out.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Thank you for asking. Neurologist completely stumped. He used lots of long words to say he was stumped.
Either an incredibly rare genetic disease previously unknown in Labradors, where the nerves in the brain go as though they have MND. (My best understanding, her symptoms fit it but it’s not treatable and only hitherto known in 2 breeds).
Or a tumour.
We decided against an MRI as it’s stress and a GA which isn’t going to be helpful.
We are managing the symptoms as they arise.
She’s on pain relief (although he’s positive she’s not in pain) and happy pills.
See how it goes.


If it is epilepsy, it can be difficult to diagnose in humans unless they actually happen to have a seizure during a brain scan. Having had an epileptic Lab, I sympathise with your difficulties, although getting a diagnosis wasn't the problem, the medication was.
I hope you can at least manage the symptoms enough to keep her comfortable and enjoying a good quality of life.
 

fankino04

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Sorry you didn't get any answers, is it possible it's some sort of doggy dementia? I have no idea if that's a thing or how they would diagnose / treat it but obviously people get very upset and anxious when they have it yet at other times can be their usual selves??
 
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