Never thought I’d be writing this :(

[Pinkvboots]

Is vertical rearing not a bit of an extreme reaction though, or is it not unusual as a reaction to alfalfa? Genuine question, I've never dealt with feed sensitivities.

I fed my Arab power and performance once by accident and had a ride from hell and if fed molasses he is an absolute idiot, he also bucks if the horse flies are bad and he very rarely bucks really so certain things can trigger a strong response, so I guess it could cause such a reaction especially as prince had hives on his face as well they may have driven him mad.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

All valid points. I will have all of these investigated. We have changed his feed and it’s made a huge difference thank god. But everything else you mention will be investigated. I will report back!

I honestly would not be too quick to spend a load of money on chasing an elusive 'cause' for the behaviour. If you had had Prince for a year and started to feed him on alfalfa, maybe going into winter, you would probably have just thought 'that's not like him' and changed the food back, before the behaviour got too extreme. Which isn't to say don't let the vet have a look at him but when they don't find anything obvious, please don't think 'it must be something' and end up spending thousands, when you already know the answer -alfalfa.
There are a lot of one horse owners who have no experience of horses reacting to food, who simply do not understand how drastically it can change their behaviour. We even had one who couldn't be given carrots because they made her completely hyper, even in hand.

 

[Keira 8888]

I honestly would not be too quick to spend a load of money on chasing an elusive 'cause' for the behaviour. If you had had Prince for a year and started to feed him on alfalfa, maybe going into winter, you would probably have just thought 'that's not like him' and changed the food back, before the behaviour got too extreme. Which isn't to say don't let the vet have a look at him but when they don't find anything obvious, please don't think 'it must be something' and end up spending thousands, when you already know the answer -alfalfa.
There are a lot of one horse owners who have no experience of horses reacting to food, who simply do not understand how drastically it can change their behaviour. We even had one who couldn't be given carrots because they made her completely hyper, even in hand.

That is so strange you say that - we have given him carrots only twice and (without keeping a diary) something in my head remembers him being very different the next day. What do you think could be in carrots that could affect him? X

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm not sure, it could just be the amount of sugar but I don't think there is that much tbh. Our Appaloosa mare that couldn't cope with carrots was the one we couldn't give alfalfa either - it really affected her very badly. I also know a person who can't eat raw carrots because they 'burn' her throat.

 

[Keira 8888]

I fed my Arab power and performance once by accident and had a ride from hell and if fed molasses he is an absolute idiot, he also bucks if the horse flies are bad and he very rarely bucks really so certain things can trigger a strong response, so I guess it could cause such a reaction especially as prince had hives on his face as well they may have driven him mad.

Stupid question I’m sure - but how bad do we think hives could cause a horse to feel? I’ve done research and many docs say they don’t cause too much discomfort - but Princes hives were BIG. And all over his neck. About the size of between a 5p and 10p piece. I wish I had never ridden him that day, the problem with being inexperienced (but determined to learn more) is that sometimes you have to disagree with a processionals opinion but because you are inexperienced you let your gut feeling go. When I asked my YO if it would be ok to ride with hives they said YES, I wish I had listened to my inner voice (based on research) and decided not to ?

 

[Ownedby4horses]

I’ve had a horse who couldn’t have carrots, made him itch like crazy (not hives but just incredibly itchy all over and he was very disturbed by it).

 

[Keira 8888]

I'm not sure, it could just be the amount of sugar but I don't think there is that much tbh. Our Appaloosa mare that couldn't cope with carrots was the one we couldn't give alfalfa either - it really affected her very badly. I also know a person who can't eat raw carrots because they 'burn' her throat.

It’s so strange isn’t it. So much to think about and manage, how the hell do people deal with more than one horse ?

 

[Keira 8888]

I’ve had a horse who couldn’t have carrots, made him itch like crazy (not hives but just incredibly itchy all over and he was very disturbed by it).

So this could have been the sugar content? It’s so confusing! An innocent old carrot hey. But yet, I strongly remember this affecting Prince. X

 

[scats]

Lovely update OP, Prince is a very lucky boy.
As for the year off, you might find that now you have made a decision to take a step back and take the pressure off, that in a few months you may feel ready to try again and see how you get on.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Stupid question I’m sure - but how bad do we think hives could cause a horse to feel? I’ve done research and many docs say they don’t cause too much discomfort - but Princes hives were BIG. And all over his neck. About the size of between a 5p and 10p piece. I wish I had never ridden him that day, the problem with being inexperienced (but determined to learn more) is that sometimes you have to disagree with a processionals opinion but because you are inexperienced you let your gut feeling go. When I asked my YO if it would be ok to ride with hives they said YES, I wish I had listened to my inner voice (based on research) and decided not to ?

I honestly don't know but if you consider a horse can feel a tiny fly on them so they are that sensitive, I would imagine hives can itch so you know yourself if you get a bite how uncomfortable it is and that's just one bite, hives can cover a large area and they were on his face and the skin there is ultra sensitive.

Last year my Arab the one I mentioned before had several insect bites under his jaw and he literally rubbed them raw until they bled, it was an absolute mess there took ages to heal all the hair came off, it must have been so irritating to have rubbed it like he did, I know he is really sensitive with things you put on his skin his allergic to lots of things so no 2 horses are the same so it's hard to tell how bad they feel with certain things.

 

[DabDab]

Aww, what a great update. I look forward to hear how you get on with him in future.

Feed reactions can be extreme in some cases. Not on the same level but my OH bought some 'junk food' type treats a couple of weeks ago and gave each of the horses some. The next morning I went for a plod round the block on Arts and instead went round like we were on a boxing day hunt. I was cantering sideways up the rode at 6am trying to work out what the hell had happened to my easy to hack horse. Fortunately the following morning she was back to normal. I backed her and so can say with complete certainty that she has never done that in her life before. My other two horses were completely normal ?‍

It could be that if Prince is very reactive to common feeds, he has ended up where he was through unrecognised feed allergies causing extreme behaviour. Stranger things have happened. Will be interesting if you manage to find anything out about the mystery second chip.

 

[Keira 8888]

Lovely update OP, Prince is a very lucky boy.
As for the year off, you might find that now you have made a decision to take a step back and take the pressure off, that in a few months you may feel ready to try again and see how you get on.

I hope so Scats. Because my young ones will be back at school come September. And I will have all day, every day to be with him. It’s been so hard managing my daughters expectations while truly spending some quality time with him myself. It will be MUCH easier come September x

 

[JDChaser]

what is the theory behind the year off? Is he just going to be living out somewhere or are you still forking out for livery

 

[Tihamandturkey]

Keira I wish you all the luck in the world - you really deserve it ?

 

[Keira 8888]

what is the theory behind the year off? Is he just going to be living out somewhere or are you still forking out for livery

I will be doing a diy grass livery. But luckily the new yard will be 60 secs walk from my home! So if I were going to be COMPLETELY honest, the theory is that he will have time off and in that time I will gain confidence and have more skills to deal with him! Not that he is a bad, fizzy horse. I’m just thrown in the deep end (my own doing) and learning fast!!

 

[Lex2009]

I will be doing a diy grass livery. But luckily the new yard will be 60 secs walk from my home! So if I were going to be COMPLETELY honest, the theory is that he will have time off and in that time I will gain confidence and have more skills to deal with him! Not that he is a bad, fizzy horse. I’m just thrown in the deep end (my own doing) and learning fast!!

That’s a brilliant idea My first horse was very green . It took me a awhile to learn how to ride her properly.

 

[splashgirl45]

a big well done kiera, you have shown what a good person you are. although i didnt say you should keep prince i am really pleased you decided to keep him. in your shoes i couldnt have sent him back even thought it was the sensible thing to do. its lovely that you have met the elderly man and hope you and your daughter can keep friends with him and ride the cob sometimes.. my old mare was very sensitive to some foods and i had to be very careful to only let her have 1 carrot a day which i hid her tablets in ...i think it is the fructose in carrots that affect them and combined with new grass she was lethal both to handle and to ride...good luck

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Stupid question I’m sure - but how bad do we think hives could cause a horse to feel? I’ve done research and many docs say they don’t cause too much discomfort - but Princes hives were BIG. And all over his neck. About the size of between a 5p and 10p piece. I wish I had never ridden him that day, the problem with being inexperienced (but determined to learn more) is that sometimes you have to disagree with a processionals opinion but because you are inexperienced you let your gut feeling go. When I asked my YO if it would be ok to ride with hives they said YES, I wish I had listened to my inner voice (based on research) and decided not to ?

I have some nettle stings on both wrists today (why do gloves and sleeves part at just the wrong moment?) and I can't bear the thought of having tight cuffs against them - I have rolled my sleeves up and they still driving me mad. If someone took hold of my wrist, I would probably shake them off pretty quickly!

 

[poiuytrewq]

Keira I wish you all the luck in the world - you really deserve it ?

This in shed loads, your the owner every horse deserves ?

 

[Winters100]

Actually I really believe that food can cause extreme reactions. A couple of weeks ago some kids at the yard were feeding mine some treats that they had baked for the horses. I was not overly concerned as both horses are very sensible and the Mother assured me that they had followed a recipe for safe natural treats, but that day my saint of a mare was a complete hooligan. Refused to stand at the mounting block, pulling, trying to race with others, some proper bucks - all of this is unheard of for her, My reaction was to call the vet, but the pro stopped me and told me to give it a day. The following day she was back to normal, I may have been mistaken but the only thing I could think of were these treats. Not seen that behaviour before or since. And all of this from a horse who I very often ride in fast canter with nothing more than a headcollar if I am short of time.

 

[fredflop]

Personally I would not be going straight to a bone scan... they will cost the best part of £2k, if not £3k.

if the owner has the money, he certainly think the vet checks I previously mentioned would be a good idea, if she decides to try and get him ridden again

 

[paddy555]

you asked why alfa A drives some crazy. Don't know but some people with barefoot horses report it makes them foot sore yet alfalfa pellets don't so perhaps there is something about the drying process that introduces something into the equation and affects the horse.

if you have a hive under an area of tack it could easily provoke a reaction. Imagine a girth done up tight on a hive if the hive was painful.

 

[ester]

Stupid question I’m sure - but how bad do we think hives could cause a horse to feel? I’ve done research and many docs say they don’t cause too much discomfort - but Princes hives were BIG. And all over his neck. About the size of between a 5p and 10p piece. I wish I had never ridden him that day, the problem with being inexperienced (but determined to learn more) is that sometimes you have to disagree with a processionals opinion but because you are inexperienced you let your gut feeling go. When I asked my YO if it would be ok to ride with hives they said YES, I wish I had listened to my inner voice (based on research) and decided not to ?

having had unexplainable hives all over my legs I can confirm that they can make you pretty mad .

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I've followed the whole thread but haven't commented as felt unqualified to

Just wanted to say what a lovely owner you seem and Prince is extremely lucky and how lovely the elderly man is letting you both ride his cob and you're making him happy in return hopefully you can keep enjoying that.

Feel free to disregard my suggestion but I'd possibly give him just a month off at most now he's more comfortable after the hives, then get someone to show you long reining and do a bit of that. If he behaves really well doing that I'd get the pro in already to work on the riding as then at least you'll know earlier where you stand- if you get extreme rearing you know you've got something a bit more complex on your hands and need to look at more complex veterinary tests/ not getting on again but it MAY have been simply the hives and food setting him off and he will be back to chilled so you can enjoy riding him again provided you feel completely safe. I just wonder if leaving him for a year possibly leaves you waiting looking forward to something only to find there are bigger problems at least if he is behaving being long reined you can see what happens when ridden so you know a bit more whats likely to be the plan long term.

Also interesting to see how many people have horses react to feed. My Welsh D is given carrot and apple in his am and pm feeds, with the occasional pear as he loves them, however he got swede peelings I think twice and both times turned even more "Welsh" and hysterical than normal. Nothing nasty but being dreadful to catch etc. He's been banned from having swede since, as its only twice he had it I couldn't say it definitely set him off due to being Welsh it could be anything but a potential correlation and not worth the aggro of giving it to him again to fully test!

 

[ycbm]

Whatever caused the hives could be causing problems anywhere else in the body too. It's not necessarily the hives themselves causing the issues, they may just be the only visible symptom.

As for reaction to a carrot, if there is an allergy, it can be triggered by one piece of the protein that causes the reaction. If a person can die from a tiny piece of nut, then a horse can be affected by a carrot.

I wrote on your hives thread that I knew a horse which got hives if it was given any carrot.
.

 

[fusspot]

Personally I would not be going straight to a bone scan... they will cost the best part of £2k, if not £3k.

if the owner has the money, he certainly think the vet checks I previously mentioned would be a good idea, if she decides to try and get him ridden again

I am not sure where you are but a bone scan is by far the cheaper option here....the one we had done last year was £750 inc the 4 days at the vets.The vets themselves say it’s the better option when you have no indication of a problem area from the eye.It will take you to an area to investigate.X raying the spine and scoping will be more than that and you could still have no result....it could be the hocks Or hind leg suspensories.By working blind it will cost way more than even 5k.As I said...at least a bone scan could point you to an area to look at.I have known of at least 4 horses that have had a bone scan and it’s definetly the more cost effective way to go and this is at a big Veterinary Practice that have just about every machine under the sun.

 

[southerncomfort]

having had unexplainable hives all over my legs I can confirm that they can make you pretty mad .

This.

I had allergic hives come up on my face after trying a new face cream.

They drove me absolutely demented!

 

[Sam_J]

I had hives once after an allergic reaction to some antibiotics. Not only were they ferociously itchy, but my joints ached violently every time I moved - I've never known pain like it!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

You say you had teeth done! is that by an EDT or vet, as this story and another where horse was pts being dangerous and turned out to be teeth. Thought I posted this but apparently I did not click post https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/new...-horse-due-put-treated-unqualified-edt-694817

 

[tristar]

i`ve had several horses get hives from rolling nettles, and extreme behavior from fly bites, anaphylatic sorry can`t spell that, shock like symptoms,called emergency vets who generally thought it was colic , but as soon as they were inside they recovered it was like a miracle, they were very distressed sometimes with hive like reaction sometimes not, with thin skinned ones bringing in during the day is a big help, and time of day it happens, just a thought to remember with prince and see how he reacts to flies etc especially when you start doing something with him, i use loads of fly spray to keep them calm

but people react to food all the time

and those fly rugs are a big help, we have the ones that have zebra stripes all with neck covers