New horse napping and and reared!!

[Olderrider73]

Ok so we’ve bought a horse from a good reputable dealer went by videos and lots of videos, horse discribed as confidance giving all rounder we’ve had him 2 weeks and only had one short hack on him then the next time he napped. he’s been out in company and been fine but when my sister tried to take him out again on his own he napped again and reared up vertically in the yard!!! He’s not known to rear we have messaged dealer about returning horse but no response as yet! Other people at the yard say return him he’s dangerous but we are so torn what to do as he’s lovely in every other way, I feel like we should give him a chance as he’s only been with us 2 weeks! Deep down we want to give him a chance but when everyone else say send him back we just don’t know what to do. Please only nice advice, no attacking comments as were already beating ourselves up with it

 

[Melody Grey]

Sorry to hear you’re having problems. Sounds like the horse is overwhelmed and needs time to settle.

from your description it sounds like you bought unseen? Did you have the horse vetted?

 

[Birker2020]

Did you have him vetted? Did you ask the seller if he was used to hacking on his own?
Did the saddle come with the horse? Could that be causing issues?

 

[holeymoley]

Is this the grey one over the dodgy dealers on facebook?

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Did you try the horse? Was he vetted? Do you know his past history?

I ask about past history because my (now retired) mare was a hunter all her life until I bought her as a 10 year old. It took me about 3 months to get her happy and relaxed enough to hack out alone, she simply had no experience or confidence alone, she was used to being in the centre of 40 or more other horses at all times.

She never reared but napped very badly (which is often the beginning of rearing if not sorted immediately that you feel those little tippy toes dancing a few inches off the ground). We got there in the end with much patience and a few tactics and she became a super horse to hack out alone.

To me she was worth putting the effort in as she suited me perfectly in every other way. Only you know if she is suitable for you to try and put the work in.

 

[Mule]

I bought a napper too (that's him in my avatar). That was 8 years ago. He is 95% cured but he will always have a backwards tendency when he's upset. He hacks alone now but it took a lot of slow, patient work. It's important to remove the pressure to go forward before they rear. Long reining or leading out in hand helps a lot. They aren't ready to hack out alone until they are more confident/secure. That takes time and patience.

 

[ihatework]

Difficult to know without understanding your level and the horse in question.

But my gut feeling is that although horses have every right to be unsettled in a move and show some behaviours accordingly - I do not expect a confidence giving allrounder to go vertical.

So if this isn’t just a little bit of a nap and front feet off the ground and is a true vertical rear, then I’d reject immediately and look to return.

Im also assuming this isn’t a young/green horse

(PS I’ve owned and ridden plenty of horses that have a bit of a nappy rear/bounce to them and they can certainly be managed and improved, but equally if that’s not something you have the skill to deal with then you need to act quick with the dealer)

 

[Cortez]

How experienced are you? Do you have a good teacher who can help you? Horses rear for any number of reasons, you need to get someone experienced and knowledgeable to help you as a first priority.

 

[dunthing]

If this is the grey on dodgy dealers, it states that he has gone over backwards a couple of times. He could have injured himself. Get a vet and physio to check him over.

 

[Goldenstar]

You either need to return the horse or get some expert input quickly .
If you want to preserve you need to contact your vet ASAP for a problems with performance work up which should include doing the horses teeth.
Contact the vet who did the vetting and get them to run the bloods taken at the vetting .
Get a good saddler to assess the saddle fit , you need a good physio to assess the horse the vet will recommend one they work with .
You can’t mess around with napping if you are inexperienced rearing horses can kill you .
Lots of serious issues ad less serious things can cause napping and rearing but if the horse has gone over with you I would send it straight back .

 

[Melody Grey]

A truly vertical rearer is a different kettle of fish to a ‘feet a bit off the floor’ nap. I totally agree that professional input is required here, starting with the vet whatever your level of ability/ experience.

 

[Birker2020]

The only reason I ask about the saddle is my own horse whom I bought in October last year had a borrowed saddle fitted to him by a saddle fitter. I waited patiently for nearly a week after collecting him until I could ride him as I wanted to make sure he was comfortable. THe saddle fitter tried my two saddles on, neither of which fitted him, but a friends saddle did so I borrowed that. THe saddle fitter went to great lengths to get it to fit, and watched me ride in it. At the time it fitted him fine but during the course of the next seven days his bad behaviour escalated. I assumed he was trying it on with his mini rears, bucks, stops and spin because I'd just had the saddle fitted. But his behaviour got worse until he nearly threw me off in a violent episode and we worked out it was his saddle.

The saddle had borne down either side of the horses withers despite the saddle fitters best intentions to fit the saddle and had made him very sore, he was good to tolerate it as long as he had really and I feel really bad for not 'listening' to his objections but as the saddle had just been fitted I thought it would be okay.

This was around 31st October last year and I've not ridden my new horse since - talk about patience! Instead on physio and vets advice the horse has been given months off to recover and improve his overall strength as his core was extremely weak and he was very ataxic following an accident when he pulled back.

He was never bad to that extent previously although its strongly suspected that he did come with a longstanding issue that wasn't picked up on vetting or told to me by the vendor.

So he's been doing ground work to build up his topline and core and I was feeding him myoplast for muscle development coupled with the groundwork exercises, stretches and polework which I've been doing religously four or five days per week for all these months.

He is being fitted with a second hand saddle this Friday by another fitter who has over 500 second hand saddles and my physio has spoken to him about my horses issues after asking me if that was okay for her to do so. I've sent him photos of Lari's conformation, etc and we have a pro rider on the yard who will sit on him to establish the best fit for the saddle with the saddle fitter and then she is kindly riding him for me 3 times a week for a month before I get on him again.

I am worried that I will have the same exactly the same result with another saddle when I get on him, but I don't feel I trust him enough at the moment to sit on him for the saddle fitter and because he's not been ridden for so long he could be a little exuberant.

So I am hoping with prior experience of what happened last time and me showing the saddle fitter the saddle I first rode him in that lessons can be learnt and another issue like this can be avoided all together.

OP if you don't have the original saddle that came with the horse I suggest you get a saddle fitter out to see if your saddle does fit and go from there. Just because it looks like it fits, or it might have to start with doesn't mean anything.

When the saddle fitter was at my yard she saw someone walk past to lead their horse to the school and said "that saddle doesn't fit that horse" and yet that rider had no idea and thought it was a good fit. SHe could tell without the rider on board whereas I'd never have been able to see.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I personally do not like horses who's 'go to' is to nap then rear. You can learn to ride in a way that averts most rears (eg by catching the very first moment of backwards thinking and booting them forward with a soft hand). But I think the tendency is always there and has to be managed. As many horses never, ever rear I would not want one that did.

Yes horses need time to settle but if a horse does that early on in repsonse to a minor stressor, then my guess is he will carry on. I'd send back personally. He does not sound like a confidence giving allrounder. He may not have done it at the dealers because most dealers are very strong riders and would just ride in a way to prevent it. But they should take him back.

 

[TPO]

Why is the horse on a dodgy dealer page?

 

[Hepsibah]

I'd be noping out on this one. Horse bought unseen whether vetted or not you can return for a full refund.

Taken from: https://www.michaelbowerequinelaw.co.uk/about-equine-law/consumer-rights-act-2015/

"On 1 October 2015 the Consumer Rights Act 2015 came into force.
It reintroduced many of the rights previously available under the old Sale of Goods legislation.
The Act also provided more extensive rights to a “consumer”,
“an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside their trade, business, craft or profession”.
When purchasing from a “trader”,
“a person acting for purposes relating to their trade, business, craft or profession”.
“Goods” which include horses must be:
of “satisfactory quality”,
“fit for their particular purpose” and
“comply with their description” and
a Consumer Contract “is to be treated” as including such terms."

If you go to this site it will tell you you have the right to reject within 30 days of purchase. You could however take up to six months to allow the horse to settle down as:

"If the goods do not conform to contract at any time within 6 months from the date of delivery they are taken not to have conformed on the date of delivery unless the trader establishes otherwise."

I would get legal advice if I were you, whichever course of action you decide to take.

 

[Birker2020]

. He may not have done it at the dealers because most dealers are very strong riders and would just ride in a way to prevent it. But they should take him back.

I agree with this. Sadly it is so hard to get an idea of a horse if you have a dealer or pro rider ride the horse because they have years of experience on a multitude of different horses and they know how to get a horse to move forwards in the best way, what buttons to press, etc.

Furthermore you don't know if the horse has been made to work to death before your visit, or whether its been doped or had water with held to make it calmer.

The horse I bought had about four saddle cloths/gel pads under the saddle, I assumed it was because the saddle wasn't its own (it wasn't - it belonged to the pro rider) and it obviously didn't fit but was fine for the purpose of the odd ride.

A pro rider could literally make a seaside donkey look good!

 

[Olderrider73]

Is this the grey one over the dodgy dealers on facebook?

No xx

 

[shortstuff99]

The one on the dodgy dealer site is complicated by the fact that the dealer was acting as an agent for the owner of the horse. It was there on sales livery so not as easy as 'dealer send it back under sales of goods act'.

 

[Olderrider73]

Did you have him vetted? Did you ask the seller if he was used to hacking on his own?
Did the saddle come with the horse? Could that be causing issues?

He’d been vetted by the dealer I believe but we not seen a report. And we’ve been told he hacks alone and in company

 

[Olderrider73]

Why is the horse on a dodgy dealer page?

It’s not

 

[Olderrider73]

Sorry to hear you’re having problems. Sounds like the horse is overwhelmed and needs time to settle.

from your description it sounds like you bought unseen? Did you have the horse vetted?

Yeah we bought unseen but had lots of video’s and a voice over . Wish we had tried it now

 

[Waxwing]

Hi I am really sorry to hear about the issues you have been experiences; our horse when she first arrived would stop and back up, but didn't try rearing; she will now lead on hacks and we have managed one on our own but it took time to get there . I am considering whether or not she is the right long term horse for us, but that isn't due to worries about any quirks or behaviours, other than being young, more about us being the right fit for each other. We have had her saddle refitted three times in the eight months we have had her and it will be checked again next month; she has changed shape significantly over time, so this may be worth checking . Did you have the horse vetted prior to purchase; I just ask I am aware with ours that we wouldn't have got insurance without a vetting. We pulled out of another purchase as it identified some issues that wouldn't have made the horse immediately unrideble, and potentially might never have been a concern, but would have made insurance difficult and if our circumstances changed selling on difficult.

 

[ester]

Is it within the 14 days? Legally you have right to return without cause if buying unseen from a dealer.

 

[ester]

Why is the horse on a dodgy dealer page?

there’s a similar post about rights/returning on one dodgy dealer page albeit that one has reared a lot more than once and not just ridden.

 

[Waxwing]

Is the horse from a dealer in the East of England by any chance?

 

[Leandy]

So you appear to not be very experienced and to have bought this horse unseen and unvetted (on your behalf). Oh dear. That aside, you need to get hold of the "good reputable" dealer and discuss it with them as as soon as possible. They should be willing to help resolve this if they are indeed good and reputable. Either by taking the horse back straight away or by allowing you a further say two weeks or so make up your mind (but only if you want that). But you must put them on notice of potential return as early as possible. Their attitude will speak volumes.

 

[Archangel]

Did you come back from a hack with others and then your sister try to take him out again straight away and leave the others?

I would expect possibly a bit of a wiggle and half-hearted nap from a straightforward horse, but a vertical rear without any other warnings shows a pretty established habit.

Rears are an extreme comment from a horse, usually because they are at the end of their tether through pain or pressure or have found it to be a pretty effective rider frightener.

I would def. look at sending the horse back (and check the dealer out on the Dodgy Dealer group).

 

[AmyMay]

He’d been vetted by the dealer I believe but we not seen a report. And we’ve been told he hacks alone and in company

So you didn’t view, so didn’t ride, and haven’t vetted?

A vertical rearer would be on it’s way back this week with the demand for a full refund.

A reputable dealer would have responded to you immediately.

 

[mariew]

I'd return pronto, if you are able to, and learn the lesson of seeing a horse and having it vetted by a vet of your choice. I suspect returning won't be that easy if the seller is already ignoring you.

Napping you can hopefully work through, I wouldn't want anything to do with a vertical rearer though, especially if it's its go to evasion for something it doesn't want to do. I'd be surprised if it was the first time it did it unless your sister hauled it in the gob and kicked it on leaving it no other way out, or someone on the ground was yanking relentlessly on the reins.

 

[Winters100]

I would also send the horse back. It is either pain or behavioral, but either way will most likely be costly to resolve with no guarantee of success. I would not expect an ill fitting saddle or being unsettled from a move to cause vertical rearing in a horse suitable for a novice owner. You say that he is lovely in all other ways, but if you send him back and look for another that onbe too will be lovely, but without the rearing.