New puppy will need surgery - where do we stand with the breeder?

Perhaps the breeder thought it was only a minor hernia? Without the vet's notes we don't know what was observed at that point, and it sounds like a couple of days passed between the health check and the OP picking up, and a few days again before going to the OP's vet. I'm not a clinician but I don't think it entirely outside of the realm of possibility that it could have worsened in that time, or even that the second vet just had a different opinion on the severity of it. It's the reaction to the email/subsequent phone call that will be telling, IMO - they've got a chance to do the right thing.
 
Most folk I know would offer a discount or a return option as depending on the type of hernia or purpose of dog, in some cases they can impede movement or cause problems for a breeding female, as well as the genetic element.
But it's very much 'buyer beware'.

I'd get a second opinion, several vets told me my female had an inguinal hernia/needed op, which is unusual in females, and it turned out to be much less serious when she was under for her hips/elbows being done.
 
Highmileagecob said:
OP's vet is perfectly entitled to contact the breeder's vet, as he/she is now taking the case over. You are correct in stating information would not be released to OP by the breeder's vet, but passing on medical history is routine.
Click to expand...
But the vets can’t pass it on without the previous owners permission (unlikely to be denied but they can’t just share files without asking the person who that work was for).
 
Update - the breeder sent photos we’d taken to her vet who apparently said his opinion was the risk was ‘slight’ but he would be happy to operate to fix it now rather than wait until he’s old enough to be neutered. Breeder gave us a ‘choice’ - she’d swap him for the puppy she kept from the litter (who doesn’t have a hernia) or she’d pay half of the surgery cost if it was done by her vet (who’s allegedly quoted 2/3 of the price our vet has quoted). We said neither of those options would be acceptable - he’s part of the family now and I would not be prepared to treat him and the other puppy like a commodity and we would not be prepared to put him through an 8 hour round trip in the car with surgery in the middle when our vet is 10 minutes away. She’s come back to me saying our vet is greedy and seeing us as mugs - for context we don’t live in a particularly affluent part of the world so I would be very surprised if our vet’s estimate was wildly above the standard cost. We’ve said her choice is not acceptable and she’s now saying her final answer is to exchange him so we can have a ‘perfect’ puppy - which I’ve already said no to. We are obviously going to do what’s right for him but I am very disappointed she’s not taking any real responsibility for the situation or thinking of the puppy’s best interests. I’m going to contact the breed club for advice - any other thoughts on where we go from here? I have saved the voicemail from 2 days before we picked him up when she said ‘there’s absolutely nothing wrong with the puppy’.
 
Last edited:
Why don't you agree to take half what she says her vet would charge and then have him done by your vet? That would seem like a fair compromise to me.

ETA vets do vary wildly. When my cat was vaccinated in January the vet told me a bad tooth would have to come out and it would cost £350. When I registered him with our new vet after moving, 10 miles from the first one, she was completely unconcerned about the tooth and said there was no reason to operate.
.
 
Muddy unicorn said:
Update - the breeder sent photos we’d taken to her vet who apparently said his opinion was the risk was ‘slight’ but he would be happy to operate to fix it now rather than wait until he’s old enough to be neutered. Breeder gave us a ‘choice’ - she’d swap him for the puppy she kept from the litter (who doesn’t have a hernia) or she’d pay half of the surgery cost if it was done by her vet (who’s allegedly quoted 2/3 of the price our vet has quoted). We said neither of those options would be acceptable - he’s part of the family now and I would not be prepared to treat him and the other puppy like a commodity and we would not be prepared to put him through an 8 hour round trip in the car with surgery in the middle when our vet is 10 minutes away. She’s come back to me saying our vet is greedy and seeing us as mugs - for context we don’t live in a particularly affluent part of the world so I would be very surprised if our vet’s estimate was wildly above the standard cost. We’ve said her choice is not acceptable and she’s now saying her final answer is to exchange him so we can have a ‘perfect’ puppy - which I’ve already said no to. We are obviously going to do what’s right for him but I am very disappointed she’s not taking any real responsibility for the situation or thinking of the puppy’s best interests. I’m going to contact the breed club for advice - any other thoughts on where we go from here? I have saved the voicemail from 2 days before we picked him up when she said ‘there’s absolutely nothing wrong with the puppy’.
Click to expand...

Can you speak direct to her vet? I think I’d take the half. Of course you can’t swap him for another puppy, that would be heartless! I’m amazed she’s offered this. She should, imo, be paying for the surgery in full. She’s in a very niche breeding circle, it would benefit her to play nice.
 
I would take her up on the offer to pay half of what her vet would charge but have your vet do the op. But with the voicemail as evidence, I would think that you could take her to Small Claims Court and claim the full cost of what your vet would charge, if you can be bothered and your vet is happy to write a report for the court.
 
ycbm said:
Why don't you agree to take half what she says her vet would charge and then have him done by your vet? That would seem like a fair compromise to me.

ETA vets do vary wildly. When my cat was vaccinated in January the vet told me a bad tooth would have to come out and it would cost £350. When I registered him with our new vet after moving, 10 miles from the first one, she was completely unconcerned about the tooth and said there was no reason to operate.
.
Click to expand...

I can also see why she would rather use her own trusted vet.

Our own vets have been bought out by a firm and have changed. Two visits ago, I was told that Heck needed extensive dental work. I had a written estimate for GA procedure costing between £800 and £900...

His teeth looked fine to me, he was eating well, so I ignored them.

He is on painkiller so has to go in for a check-up every 6 months. Last one was a new to them vet, who hadn't seen him before. The new vet said what good teeth he had.

We are not in an affluent area. I believe they were on a drive to get dental work done!
 
It's completely normal to offer a new puppy for one with a health problem/defect/not what it said on the tin, it's usually one from the next litter and is written into most contracts among breeders I know, particularly on the continent.

The fact that she's offered her pick means she's either very serious about recompense or she is calling your bluff/knows you won't give the puppy up.

I know a couple of people who have returned or sold on pups and got a replacement from breeders on the continent, which wasn't easy logistically but there's a lot more regulation/emphasis on contracts and doing things properly over there.
 
To be honest it’s not about the money - it’s wanting her to take responsibility and do what’s in the puppy’s best interests. She knows perfectly well that we’re not going to swap him - and I’d already told her that. The time to talk about potentially having a different puppy was when she knew he had a problem and BEFORE we paid for him and picked him up. I realise that vets can have different views however this is a large hernia and I see no reason to doubt my vet’s opinion. Her attitude has really upset me - the last couple of messages I’ve had from her have been extremely unpleasant and unprofessional so I’m not feeling particularly inclined to compromise.
 
I just wanted to mention that surgery costs do vary ALOT between vets. We have 2 cats and i rang around various vets in my area (over 6 different practices) and the costs varied wildly for a routine spray.
 
I’m sure surgery costs do vary - and I’m also sure she’s getting mate’s rates with her vet as she’s a fairly prolific breeder who puts a lot of work his way. But in my position would you take the puppy to the local vet less than 10 minutes away or would you subject a young puppy to a 4+ hour car journey, then surgery, then another 4+ hour journey home again? That’s not even taking into account that we’d both have to take a day off work and pay for fuel to get us there and back
 
Muddy unicorn said:
I’m not feeling particularly inclined to compromise.
Click to expand...

Are you feeling inclined to sue? I'm not convinced you will win. In the eyes of the law the puppy is "goods" covered by the Sale of Goods Act, and you have been offered replacement goods which are free from defects, so the seller has complied with the law. The Sale of Goods Act, sadly, is not interested in your emotional attachment to the puppy you have now.
.
 
Horrible that it’s come to this level of unpleasantness at what should be a happy time ?. Breeders should always be there for future advice and support should you need it too but in your position I think I’d have nothing further to do with her and get your pup’s operation done by your own vet.
 
Muddy unicorn said:
I’m sure surgery costs do vary - and I’m also sure she’s getting mate’s rates with her vet as she’s a fairly prolific breeder who puts a lot of work his way. But in my position would you take the puppy to the local vet less than 10 minutes away or would you subject a young puppy to a 4+ hour car journey, then surgery, then another 4+ hour journey home again? That’s not even taking into account that we’d both have to take a day off work and pay for fuel to get us there and back
Click to expand...

Depending on the personality of the puppy, your puppy probably wouldnt care and would possibly spend most of the driver asleep. However i doubt the journey would be ideal if you need to take time off work. Id possibly ring around other local vets to get afew more quotes and let the breeder know, but as a minimum id accept the money thats being offered.
 
I think you need to check the wording of the Sale of Goods Act very carefully. I think you have the right to a replacement or a repair, most people, of course, would prefer a replacement of an inanimate object, so reject the repair. You need a legal opinion on whether it is your choice or the breeder's choice.
 
ycbm said:
Are you feeling inclined to sue? I'm not convinced you will win. In the eyes of the law the puppy is "goods" covered by the Sale of Goods Act, and you have been offered replacement goods which are free from defects, so the seller has complied with the law. The Sale of Goods Act, sadly, is not interested in your emotional attachment to the puppy you have now.
.
Click to expand...
I’d hope we might have a decent case for the puppy being mis-sold as I have proof that she lied to us. In any case I’m going to contact the breed club for advice and it’s a very small world .
 
Flyermc said:
Depending on the personality of the puppy, your puppy probably wouldnt care and would possibly spend most of the driver asleep. However i doubt the journey would be ideal if you need to take time off work. Id possibly ring around other local vets to get afew more quotes and let the breeder know, but as a minimum id accept the money thats being offered.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately he finds car journeys of more than about 30 minutes extremely distressing and has stress diarrhoea so yes he would very much care and I’m not putting him or us through what would be a hellish journey so that his breeder can save a couple of hundred pounds
 
Muddy unicorn said:
I’d hope we might have a decent case for the puppy being mis-sold as I have proof that she lied to us. In any case I’m going to contact the breed club for advice and it’s a very small world .
Click to expand...

I cant say if your puppy was miss-sold, however that might be a moot issue (in a court case) as the seller (breeder) has offered an exchange.
 
Mis sold? Hmm, I thought she told you about the hernia before you purchased the puppy? I’m not entirely surprised the breeder is becoming frustrated with you; she has offered you a couple of solutions which you are choosing not to accept, so it’s not like she’s being unprofessional or unreasonable. If you don’t want to make the trip to use her vet then I’d be perfectly happy to accept the offer of half the cost. And I’d find another, less pricey/gouge-y vet for a 3rd opinion.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I think you need to check the wording of the Sale of Goods Act very carefully. I think you have the right to a replacement or a repair, most people, of course, would prefer a replacement of an inanimate object, so reject the repair. You need a legal opinion on whether it is your choice or the breeder's choice.
Click to expand...

I looked this up the other day, and I think I remember right that the seller has one opportunity to repair and if that fails must then replace. If i am remembering that right, this seller has already exceeded her legal obligation by offering a replacement.
.
 
Muddy unicorn said:
I’m sure surgery costs do vary - and I’m also sure she’s getting mate’s rates with her vet as she’s a fairly prolific breeder who puts a lot of work his way. But in my position would you take the puppy to the local vet less than 10 minutes away or would you subject a young puppy to a 4+ hour car journey, then surgery, then another 4+ hour journey home again? That’s not even taking into account that we’d both have to take a day off work and pay for fuel to get us there and back
Click to expand...

I would propose a third option. I would accept the payment she offered of half the fee her vet would charge - but then put that fee to the vet of my choice, explaining that I would rather the puppy did not travel.

Of course, if your relationship has soured then she may not be inclined to now do this.

I too think she has complied with the law. She pointed out the fault in goods before you purchased and you accepted them with the fault, the severity of which is debateable (I presume if it were dangerous or urgent you would have operated already for the welfare of the pup). She offered to replace the goods with her pick of the litter. I am unsure if she offered a refund? She has taken the advice of her vet, who initially diagnosed the condition, and has offered to pay half the cost of repair to the pup, despite her vet saying it could wait until a later time when the cost would be negligible.

I gave the example of my dog, where one vet said he needed almost £900 of treatment, including a GA in an older dog, the other vet from the same practice said he was fine. It is not an exact science and she has her professional saying it can wait.
 
Muddy unicorn said:
I’d hope we might have a decent case for the puppy being mis-sold as I have proof that she lied to us. In any case I’m going to contact the breed club for advice and it’s a very small world .
Click to expand...

I don't think you've got any case at all. Before you took possession you were warned he had a hernia which her vet had advised her could wait until castration to be resolved. You took him anyway.

At this point I think the sale of Goods Act probably means that she no longer had any responsibility for paying for the hernia repair.

Your vet disagrees with her vet, that's not uncommon.

In spite of probably not having any further liability under the sale of goods Act, she offered you a complete replacement or a substantial contribution towards the cost of the operation.

I'd be surprised if you had a leg to stand on in court and my advice would be to take the money offer now before somebody else advises her that you have no case.

Please put your love for this puppy out of the equation when trying to deal with this issue. The law is not interested in him being a live creature who you have become attached to, and it's skewing your judgement, maybe.
.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top