No winter turnout??

[SillyFilly]

I'm in Blackpool to, so can vouch for the definite lack of winter turnout anywhere within reasonable distance...really rare to find anywhere to accommodate....which is sad. Theres been more and more building over the years and space is becoming less and less.

I know of afew yards in my local area that offer no turn out AT ALL, other than sand paddock while mucking out ect......year round.

So we make the best of a less than perfect situation and commit to put in 'extra hours' in the winter months, and look forward to April/March with much excitement!! My yard has more turnout than most in the area, however restrictions apply in winter

 

[BorgRae]

I'm in Blackpool to, so can vouch for the definite lack of winter turnout anywhere within reasonable distance...really rare to find anywhere to accommodate....which is sad. Theres been more and more building over the years and space is becoming less and less.

I know of afew yards in my local area that offer no turn out AT ALL, other than sand paddock while mucking out ect......year round.

So we make the best of a less than perfect situation and commit to put in 'extra hours' in the winter months, and look forward to April/March with much excitement!! My yard has more turnout than most in the area, however restrictions apply in winter

Hi there fello Blackpool lass!!!! Where abouts are you stabled?! I've really struggled to find anywhere and am moving to Wrea Green this weekend with the hope of more turnout!

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

I am another one who would not consider keeping my horses at a yard with no winter turnout One of mine came from a dressage competion yard where he had lived from 1 year - 10 and had limited turnout especially after he had been backed. The resul was a horse how was not only sour in the school but one that cribbed and windsucked. After 3 years of year round turnout he is a happier horse and rarely cribs or windsucks anymore (I did also treat him ofr ulcers and now manage him for them).

Our yard has year round turnout and the YO leaves it up to us to decide when we bring our horses in. I try and keep mine out 24/7 for as long a possible - usually Nov/Dec - and they go out again 24/7 asap - as soon as the fields are dry enough so they last 2 years apart from being cold they have been out 24/7 from February. I have one cob and a WB but my nieces TB also keeps the same routine and has never looked better - he is an ex racer who also came from a yard with little or nio turnout over winter and looked 'dusty' when he came to us - is definitely a better horse for the turnout.

The YO - who is also a farmer - take the view that the grass will grow back no matter how trashed and muddy the fields get, they are harrowed and rolled and generally very well maintained. I have been there 10 years now and despite some very wet winters and some very cold ones the grazing is still as good as ever.

 

[SillyFilly]

Hi there fello Blackpool lass!!!! Where abouts are you stabled?! I've really struggled to find anywhere and am moving to Wrea Green this weekend with the hope of more turnout!

Hi there,lol!!

I'm on the moss...not that it looks like moss anymore!! Nr Midgeland Rd.... Summer turn out is good and 24/7...yard is not pristine and facilities are there, but basic I suppose, however my girl is happy there...and its 5 mins from home. I know of a lovely yard (Singleton) my friend has it....but I cant do the distance...not enough hours in the day.....although filly is going back up there this week for breaking.

They are hoping to be able to provide winter turnout from this winter, but it will be dependant on how the land copes as to whether they can offer this as a permanent fixture....Its sooooo difficult to land a 'perfect' yard....I reckon they dont exist...not round here anyhow!!

 

[MissMistletoe]

If someone kept a dog in a cage 24/7, only letting it out every other day for 20 minutes, leaving it to stand in it's own excrement all day and all night long, i'm sure the RSPCA would have something to say. but it's ok for horses as they're in 'a stable'.... ahhh I see!

Interesting thought. Also, my friend once said that the idea of keeping a hamster in a small margarine tub with a 'window' cut out and being allowed a quick wizz on it's wheel for 20 minutes wouldnt go down very well with animal welfare. It's pretty much the same size wise for a horse in an average stable.

What makes it worse, is that horses are designed to travel 20+ miles a day.

In the old days, horses were kept stabled all the time, but this was because they were kept in cities to provide a transport service, were fed and watered on route. At least they were true working horses that would travel many miles to use up their pent up energy.

Modern day typical DIY leisure horses are far away from those old faithful work horses of the past!

 

[DifficultMare]

I am lucky enough to be on a yard where we are allowed to turn out in winter - my horse has her own paddock and I look after it, ie pooh-picking etc. However - much as I would love my horse to go out every day winter/summer and all the times in-between, she just will not have it, if the weather is not to her liking she will spend the day galloping up and down and/or just standing by the gate to come in. Yes the galloping about does wreck the ground but I've never had a problem of the grass not coming back - and since she is out there as she's such a good doer, if there was slightly less grass it wouldn't be a problem. So, much as I totally agree that ideally and in theory all horses would be turned out every day if not live out, sometimes this just doesn't work. Having injured herself last November because she didn't want to be out, and as she is currently recovering from a sprained check ligament - again caused on a wet day when she didn't want to be out, I'm planning her work schedules on probably having her in once it starts to get too wet. We are lucky enough to have a walker and a flood-lit school and I'm also lucky enought that I'm allowed to let her loose in the school once a week or so to really let off steam!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

That's all good and well but is it right? Should they keep horses in those sorts of environments where they don't get to have any freedom? I imagine a fair few police horse stables etc might not have T/O either - doesn't mean it's acceptable.

__________________

Might not be acceptable but at stag lodge all the horses were happy , they had nice stables good food and went out on at least 3 hacks a day then over to Wimbledon common for lesson. Its the life they lead its all they ever knew they get used to it. London is not blessed with rolling green fields . i know some professionals in a yard round here who never turn their horses out, we joke when we see them and say horses all have bent necks due to they being in the school all the time.

 

[BorgRae]

Hi there,lol!!

I'm on the moss...not that it looks like moss anymore!! Nr Midgeland Rd.... Summer turn out is good and 24/7...yard is not pristine and facilities are there, but basic I suppose, however my girl is happy there...and its 5 mins from home. I know of a lovely yard (Singleton) my friend has it....but I cant do the distance...not enough hours in the day.....although filly is going back up there this week for breaking.

They are hoping to be able to provide winter turnout from this winter, but it will be dependant on how the land copes as to whether they can offer this as a permanent fixture....Its sooooo difficult to land a 'perfect' yard....I reckon they dont exist...not round here anyhow!!

Tell me about it!! I used to stable near the moss 4 years ago, I live in Blackpool South, so it was close to home, only a couple of miles, but very limited Summer turnout and no winter turnout.

I moved to a yard in St. Micheals as the facilities are to die for (although 35 mins of travel each way every day not so nice!)!! But Summer turnout has become an issue there anyway, so am now moving to Wrea Green. They say they have Summer and winter turnout, but we'll see when winter hits! The facilities are good, and is only 10 miles away Maybe this is the near "perfect" yard... We'll see!!!

...Singleton sounds interesting

 

[SillyFilly]

Tell me about it!! I used to stable near the moss 4 years ago, I live in Blackpool South, so it was close to home, only a couple of miles, but very limited Summer turnout and no winter turnout.

I moved to a yard in St. Micheals as the facilities are to die for (although 35 mins of travel each way every day not so nice!)!! But Summer turnout has become an issue there anyway, so am now moving to Wrea Green. They say they have Summer and winter turnout, but we'll see when winter hits! The facilities are good, and is only 10 miles away Maybe this is the near "perfect" yard... We'll see!!!

...Singleton sounds interesting

Good luck with your move....false promises are worse than no promise at all imo!! Yes, will be interested to see what happens in winter in Singleton...we were galloping around in the snow last year,lol.x.

 

[BorgRae]

Good luck with your move....false promises are worse than no promise at all imo!! Yes, will be interested to see what happens in winter in Singleton...we were galloping around in the snow last year,lol.x.

Thank you!! And good luck with breaking your filly!!! Hope all goes well!

I hope Singleton works out well... You never know, we may actually cross paths in the future!!

 

[rubysmum]

i feel so strongly about winter turnout that now do a 40 mile round trip every day [ obs on top of full time work & children] as have finally found the rare as hens teeth yard - all yr 24/7365 turnout, stabling, assisted DIY & an indoor school - my big veteran arthritic mare could simply not cope with being stabled for months at a time

 

[team barney]

Fortunately, this barbaric practice is not common place near me (East Kent). I own a yard and I insist all horses go out each day (I, infact asked someone to leave the yard because their horse only went out 'on a Monday'). The only time they may not go out in to their proper fields is if the land is completely water logged (it happened about 10 days in total last winter). Even then we have a 'trash paddock' and a school.

I am sorry, but speaking from a livery owners point of view, if you can't offer any form of winter turnout, then the land isn't being managed very well. I have turned away about 20 horses this year for grass livery, yes I could have taken them on in the spring/summer, but I know that come the winter, there won't be enough grazing and everyone will suffer. Yes, I had to say goodbye to the extra pennies, but IMO it is worth it to maintain good winter grazing.

I don't understand why the RSPCA/BHS etc. don't insist on some sort of turnout. One of the RSPCA's 'five freedoms' is freedoms to express natural behaviour. Well this isn't going to happen in a 12 x 12 (or smaller!) box...or with individual turnout (but that is for another rant!!).

If someone kept a dog in a cage 24/7, only letting it out every other day for 20 minutes, leaving it to stand in it's own excrement all day and all night long, i'm sure the RSPCA would have something to say. but it's ok for horses as they're in 'a stable'.... ahhh I see!

^^^ This ^^^

Horses aren't afraid of a little mud, if they appear to dislike turnout 99% of the time it is conditioning from an unnatural upbringing.

Standing by the gate when it is raining often says more about management than temperament as horses that behave like this have usually been tucked up in their stables when a hint of rain comes so they are conditioned to wait by the gate when it starts to drizzle in anticipation of their usual routine.

I have known horses who appeared to hate turnout, who couldn't understand the process of freedom to do as they will. With time everyone of those horse learnt that fields weren't scary places and they were turned out with no issues.

People project their own desires for dry and warmth on to horses far to often and as a result their animals are kept in entirely unnatural environs.

The hamster analogy is perfect.

 

[Shutterbug]

No turnout, no stay is my policy - I would never have my horse on a yard that did not allow all year turnout, its too important. I left my last yard because I had to fight tooth and mail for every hour of turnout my horse got last winter - I have a feeling she will now not allow any winter turnout this year because they whinged that we wrecked a 10 acre field by insisting that our 4 horses were turnout out for the winter - they got about 2-3 hours a day. We all left the yard because of it, and that was 3 liveries with 4 horses

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

^^^ This ^^^


Standing by the gate when it is raining often says more about management than temperament

Are you generalizing or are you saying all of us who bring horses in an hour or 2 earlier because its torrential rain and they are standing by the gate, accusing us of practicing bad management ??


Because I disagree with this ,If my liveries stand by the gate around 2 pm its only an hour off coming in time( when clocks go back) and its because they have had enough of being outside, I for one will let them come in if they want too . 3 of these who want to come in are 29 -23 and 22

have usually been tucked up in their stables when a hint of rain comes so they are conditioned to wait by the gate when it starts to drizzle in anticipation of their usual routine.

Non of mine are tucked up if any drizzle even if heavy rain they go out at 7am so by the time 2-3pm comes round they have been in the rain 7 or 8 hours.

 

[appyowner]

I am lucky enough after years of having horses in livery to now have my own land. One yard we kept the horses on stated all liveries with stables had to keep their horses in overnight from 01 September, irrespective of the weather. There were some days in the winter when they had to stay in 24/7. Turnout in the spring was weather dependant and one year the horses couldn't go out until June. Now, I can do as I please and they are all turned out everyday in the winter, out at 6.30am and in at about 4.00pm. They wear rugs relevant to the weather and are kept in one paddock until spring. Yes it gets trashed, they get filthy and I have to put haylage in the field to keep them amused. But that said they are healthy happy horses, ready to go out in the morning and ready to come in at night. And the paddock...come spring it looks like a ploughed field but rested it bounces back and has already been grazed down twice. It's nearly ready to be shut down again for the winter months to start all over again. Lack of winter grazing in my opinion means too many horses on the land.

 

[Solo1]

We have separate winter and summer paddocks - so winter paddocks are just allowed to get absolutely trashed and then are rolled, harrowed and sprayed in Spring to grow all summer, ready for winter again. Yes, they get muddy around gateways (do have crush and run down immediately around gateways but before that it gets muddy) and yes, there's big ruts because we're on clay. When it freezes and snows I keep TB on sand paddock as he's on loan and I have horrid visions of him getting his leg in a frozen rut whilst he has a hooly... Yes horses come in splattered with mud, yes there's more frequently the odd scuffle as they're in a smaller space with less food, but they're absolutely fine. YO can be a bit funny about hay going out but we just hide it, put loads of piles out all spread around and everyone's happy!

IMO I wouldn't rule out a yard with no winter turn-out. However I would want there to be a substiture, for at least 6 hours a day. But I personally couldn't do it. If I didn't have to go to school and could graze them in hand, lunge, ride, observe turnout etc, I would, but that's just not possible and for now I count my lucky stars I have what I do!

 

[DifficultMare]

^^^ This ^^^

Horses aren't afraid of a little mud, if they appear to dislike turnout 99% of the time it is conditioning from an unnatural upbringing.

Standing by the gate when it is raining often says more about management than temperament as horses that behave like this have usually been tucked up in their stables when a hint of rain comes so they are conditioned to wait by the gate when it starts to drizzle in anticipation of their usual routine.

I have known horses who appeared to hate turnout, who couldn't understand the process of freedom to do as they will. With time everyone of those horse learnt that fields weren't scary places and they were turned out with no issues.

People project their own desires for dry and warmth on to horses far to often and as a result their animals are kept in entirely unnatural environs.

The hamster analogy is perfect.

My horse lived out until she was nearly five in all winds and weathers - they did have the option of a barn if they wanted, and she did often go inside. I had to have a stable for her in the end as she started to get mud-fever very severely - not sure why as nothing had changed. I would still much rather she stayed out and if there is going to be someone at the yard during the morning I will put her out when I'm there early and then she can come in a few hours later rather than being left for 10-12 hours. But, after the past couple of years with all the injuries she has sustained I'm no longer prepared to risk her safety. She's now 15 years old and has certainly never been molly-coddled, but if she's preferring to be in rather than out that's where she will be. When she is stabled she has 30-40 mins on the walker in the morning and is then ridden/lunged/goes back on the walker in the evening. At the weekends she is hacked out and at least once a week is allowed to vent off in the school. She seems to be perfectly happy with this, although it is obviously far more work and expense for me I would much rather this than end up with her out of work for another 5 months with injuries.

As I said before, in an ideal world I would much rather she was out all day every day but if it's a choice between her freedom or keeping her in one piece I'm afraid these days I'm opting for keeping her in one piece.

 

[Naryafluffy]

Even in the snow last year they still went out every single day.

Would have to say that last year after a neighbouring yard had 3 horses PTS because they broke legs in the snow ours stopped going out in the snow and were turned out 2/3 at a time in the indoor school for a couple of hours with several haynets hung up all over (so that there wasn't any fighting over haynets), to be fair last year the snow also drifted up where we are and my mare took one look at 5ft snow drifts and stopped at the exit of the barn.

 

[madlady]

I'm not on a livery yard and I still don't have proper grazing turnout for mine - purely because nobody in the vicinity will rent out grazing for horses over the winter months because they don't want their fields 'trashing'

So until my fund to buy some land is big enough I compromise - I have an outdoor paddock attached to my stables which is a reasonable size, I have put good drains in and mine go out in there with lots of haynets put up round the sides - I have 4 to turn out and the paddock is plenty big enough for them to stretch their legs, get some fresh air and be sociable.

Hopefully I'll only be making do with this solution for another year when fingers crossed I will be able to buy my own land.

 

[Naryafluffy]

^^^ This ^^^

Horses aren't afraid of a little mud, if they appear to dislike turnout 99% of the time it is conditioning from an unnatural upbringing.

Standing by the gate when it is raining often says more about management than temperament as horses that behave like this have usually been tucked up in their stables when a hint of rain comes so they are conditioned to wait by the gate when it starts to drizzle in anticipation of their usual routine.

I have known horses who appeared to hate turnout, who couldn't understand the process of freedom to do as they will. With time everyone of those horse learnt that fields weren't scary places and they were turned out with no issues.

People project their own desires for dry and warmth on to horses far to often and as a result their animals are kept in entirely unnatural environs.

The hamster analogy is perfect.

What about horses that let themselves in, we have 2 mares that in winter time will basically break the fence post that the gate is attached to and let themselves in, they are quite happy to stay out in summer time in the rain (and trust me in Scotland we get plenty of rain in the summer, has finally stopped raining after raining for almost 3 days straight). What are they expected to do in 5ft snow drifts where they can't get any grass, we have them in a field so they can't wander for miles to find grazing (can this be seen as not allowing freedom to express natural behaviour). My friend also has a horse that is the opposite it won't go out in summer, it will run through fences to get in, little black lusitano stallion, came over from spain with no hair on it because it had rub itself raw because of an allergy to lemon flies, now associates midgies with this and goes bananas, which is more cruel a horse that is happy to be in away from flies/having something to eat, or horses that throw themselves through fences and damage themselves, know which one I think.

 

[Flame_]

My early horsey years were spent on yards with no winter turnout. I used to think Flame was bonkers, but she was just stir crazy at being shut in. It is absolutely not acceptable to shut in horses 24/7 and if you are in an area where it is the norm, think about traveling further from home to somewhere your horse will be happy.

Limited turnout is an acceptable compromise, IMO. If conditions are such that the horse gets plenty of work, than an hour in an arena just mooching around and letting off steam is all it takes to keep horses sane. In the winter though, with its frozen surfaces, flooded roads and boggy tracks, horse exercise is often much safer to horses and would be riders, if it is done by just letting horses mooch regularly around fields, than trying to keep everything in regular work.

Actually restricting the horses' opportunity to let rip and feel free for weeks or months at a time is asking for a stressed horse with stable vices, rider and handler injuries from dealing with ready to explode horses, horse ailments from the lack of movement and stale environment, and then horse injuries when they finally are let loose and they go ape.

 

[hannahmurphy]

Sorry, horses should live as horses intended. It's against nature to lock them in a box for X months. If there's not enough land for them to be out in the winter than a serious look at numbers is need, ie cutting them down.

 

[leflynn]

^^^ This ^^^

Horses aren't afraid of a little mud, if they appear to dislike turnout 99% of the time it is conditioning from an unnatural upbringing.

Standing by the gate when it is raining often says more about management than temperament as horses that behave like this have usually been tucked up in their stables when a hint of rain comes so they are conditioned to wait by the gate when it starts to drizzle in anticipation of their usual routine.

I have known horses who appeared to hate turnout, who couldn't understand the process of freedom to do as they will. With time everyone of those horse learnt that fields weren't scary places and they were turned out with no issues.

People project their own desires for dry and warmth on to horses far to often and as a result their animals are kept in entirely unnatural environs.

The hamster analogy is perfect.

I tried projecting full time or even part time turn out on my horse with no such luck, so although I have winter turnout during the day I doubt he'll be out for anymore than an hour or two as it seems it stresses him and is detrimental to his his health even in the summer and also by agreement with my vet - guess it's horses for courses

Breeding and conditioning over the years have evolved the horse from what it was hundreds of years ago and I guess you have to accept that what some like others don't.

I do agree that if your horse doesn't have any turnout time then it's important that you make up for that somewhere by doing something out of their stable whatever that may be and if you don't have the time or inclination then it's worth changing something for both yours and the horses sake.
Then again I'm someone who doesn't agree with people who maybe ride or visit their horse once a week and leave to itself in a field/stable but I guess thats a different argument.....

 

[BentleyBelly]

Mine lives out 24/7 all year round....no turnout is totally unacceptable. Horses are designed to live outdoors not in a stable!

 

[4faults]

What if you can't look at cutting down numbers because it's not your yard?

Or not travel further afield because there is nothing in the area and you don't drive?

My horses are happy and no one said they are shut in their boxes for months, they get worked and get time turned out together in the indoor school to play

 

[Enfys]

..So I ask again, would they then give up their horses if they couldn't have winter turnout?

I wouldn't have horses if I had to keep them at livery full stop!

 

[Cluck]

I don't understand why yards don't build a few dry paddocks with hardcore and some sand. Even half an acre would be enough for several paddocks to rotate the horses through for a few hours a day.

Here in the US, that kind of arrangement is typical in addition to the fields that are used 'weather permitting'. There are still some Western style yards (barns) where the poor muscle bound quarter horses only see the light of day when they are ridden. They are otherwise in 10'*10' stalls 365 days/year .... ugh.

After 10 horrific years of livery (it's called boarding) here, I finally have my own small place and set up my box stalls so that the horses can go in and out as they please into dry paddocks and into their field if I open the gate. This works so well and is much healthier for the horses. They move around all day. They get shut in only a few days per year when the weather is terrible.

I hope never to put my horses on livery again but if I had to I would choose a yard with turnout all year round. I have driven up to an hour each way for a livery yard

 

[GingerCat]

I rented a field last year for my (then) colt and turned him out with my gelding.

I saw very little benefit in the arrangement to be honest, both of them wet and muddy most of the time, despite rugs. I still had to feed hay in the field and actually had to feed more than usual to keep them warm. And they were always glad to come in at night

None of my horses have ever shown 'stereotypical' behaviour despite their limited turnout through the winter whilst we've been on this yard.
So this year I will not keep on the field that I rented last year.
I will once again turn them out in one of our arenas either indoors or out depending on the weather so that they can socialise and stretch their legs.

You can keep your mud rash, your wet, muddy rugs that won't dry out and churned up fields.

And for those who's horses 'go mental' when cooped up in stables, I suggest that you look at what you're feeding them. A little less hard feed and more fibre may help matters.

And Enfys : My horse are not kept at livery As a family we rent stables etc. and look after the horses ourselves. Or are you suggesting that unless you have your own yard you should not keep horses?

 

[Enfys]

I don't understand why yards don't build a few dry paddocks with hardcore and some sand. Even half an acre would be enough for several paddocks to rotate the horses through for a few hours a day.

QUOTE]

I am totally with you on this, but there are several reasons, these for starters:

* The sheer expense. (Unless you are on sandy soil)

* Planning permits - some councils can be very VERY picky and consider this an arena, which, basically it is because let's face it, if you have a sand paddock you ride in it don't you? I plough my fields up to make riding rings for summer because our ground is solid

* Some people just don't like dry lots, it is a very un-British method. The logic of it is undeniable, and thinking has changed, but to some it just isn't done

 

[quirky]

I live in a very wet area and our winter turnout is on one of 3 sand paddocks. The horses go out in rotation and have about 2 hours each out.

There is also the walker that they can go on if you wish.

They can also be loose schooled in the indoor in even more extreme weather than we normally get .