No wonder we go abroad for horses

Lovely..don't you think we could produce horses of that quality here too?

Bangs head against a brick wall - we do, they are just considered unfashionable
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Oh most def, but do you think we have the backing in this country? Also it has been reported many times that we are unwilling to pay the prices in this country for homebred stock. If people knew they would at least get their money back, I am sure they would use the best possible stallions & mares. Until we change our way of thinking and doing things (I mean where can you go and see such quality all in one place in this country?), then I think we will continue to lag behind.
 
Yes they are 'to die' - they will die young because they are asked to work too hard too young.

Some of the top batch are ONLY **3*** and they will NOT stay sound into their mid-20s because their joints and body are stressed to work at a high dressage level, in an outline in SITTING trot just to make a good price for pothunting punters

These horses futures are being sacrificed for money and their lives put at risk by excessive dressage work far far far too young. If you consider what the 3 yr olds are doing - consider that they will have started that work at **2**

WHY is it that people winge on about 'poor little racehorses' (and we know that a lot of the flat racehorses go permanently lame because they do too much too young) and yet think the sort of thing in this post is perfectly OK - it's NOT OK !!!!

Maybe the people who thing UK bred horses are 'rubbish' compared with these foreign overstressed imports might like to consider whether their expensive import will still be sound at the age of 10 - let alone 25

I really really HATE to see these horses so stressed up at this age when they should be in rising trot, working relaxed and forward but not in this advanced outline and excessive collection.

'To die for' - I'd like to put the people who produce these horses up against a wall and shoot them

It's the equivalent of human kids being asked to do gymnastics at 5 and then being crippled with arthritis by 25.

Don't support this - buy british bred, kindly treated and not over stressed too young quality horses.
 
Addition auctions - but people ignore the UK bred auction where top price is about 4k and then bid up to 60k for imported overstressed nags 3 weeks later
 
absolutely

and they'll be knackered by the time they are 10 when produced in this manner at this age

you can buy the same quality warmblood bred in this country - look at what delphipuppy breeds for example - but they won't be doing halfpass and pirouettes at 3 !!!
 
I didn't want a WB this time because of what I have been through with my last 2, however I DID buy one and only because she has been HERE since 3 and was broken here and has done naff all so far in her life. Am hoping this one won't go lame or drop down dead like the other 2
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Precisely

andit's not only the poor horse that suffers. We all bond tremendously with our horses and those that buy young horses typically expect to have 15 or so years with their equine friend - and not suffer the trauma of losing their horsey after a few months or years due to irrepareable damage/disease

warmbloods are not mature until age 6 - so what is wrong to do with a TB at age 2 is wrong to do with a WB at age 3.5 as TBs are typically mature by about 4.5
 
Also should add the one that dropped down dead was only 4
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I do hope that when I buy my next serious horse there will be more UK bred horses around for me to choose from, they unfortunately are like hens teeth at the moment, but I envisage that this will change in the next 5 years as a lot more focus seems to have been put back on UK breeding
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Well put Airedale. I've know of a few dressage youngsters who as they have got older have had nothing but trouble from their backs and joints. People never learn do they? Incessant schooling as babies (and I consider 3 and 4 yo as babies, sometimes 5 yo too) does not do them any good. And (IMHO) lateral work when joints are not fully formed is criminal.
 
delphipuppy and Derek are doing their best ;-))

I agree with the hard to find - apart from my Derek 2 yr old I breed sportsponies and it wasn't until the SPSS started in 2000 that there was anywhere that recognised sports ponies (i.e. as a differential from the NPS and it's focus on the county showing circuit)
 
problem is that we are pushed into being a 'convenience' society - goto supermarket and buy a 'ready meal'

goto germany and buy a 'ready horse'

neither last very long, are expensive for what they are and in comparison with starting from the raw ingredients are poor value for money

(actually I'm quite proud of that analogy - it sums the issue up nicely - punters buy the foreign lot 'cos they want 'instant success' - the people who buy the british bred horse are prepared to put in the effort to get the rewards)
 
my little darling that was supposed to be 15.2 at maturity is 15.2 at 23 months old of a 14hh mare first foal !!!

...and there was I wanting a short horse as I'd need a ladder to reach anything over 16hh
 
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Lovely..don't you think we could produce horses of that quality here too?

Bangs head against a brick wall - we do, they are just considered unfashionable
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That was rhetorical..I know we can produce good horses here, however I do think we are lacking in infrastructure and advertising in the business
 
It does not take away from the fact that 100's of people from this country go abroad to purchase their horses. I have many times posted my views on it. At the end of the day if we are not prepared to pay the prices, it only makes it more difficult for breeders in this country. I have also pointed out that a lot of the WB's have UK TB's in their breeding. Therefore if they are happy to use 'our' TB's that should tell us that we do have very good horses right here. Also as already pointed out, we have forgotten how much the CB & the Welsh have contributed to good sports horses when covering TB's. The fact remains though that Europe do breed far more horses then we do and of better quality. The wastage is not seen, except in some dodgy dealer yards! It is to be expected though, we have a lot of wastage in the racing industry, just because only a small percentage of horses are going to make the grade out of 1000's being bred. I am not condoning the way they produce their youngsters, how could I, when I dont believe in backing a horse until it is 3yrs anyway. But no one can get away from the fact that in this country we do not have the backing, even Ireland leave us standing. Years ago we could not be touched were breeding event horses where concerned. If we had the horses and the infrastructure then perhaps we would not have got left behind, How many hours have been wasted travelling to see one horse, when abroad you can go and see 50+. Where do you suppose their ponies have come from? How many breeders in this country breed ponies that can move like them? Yet most of theirs will trace back to UK bred ponies. Most of us are hobby breeders, with no real thought as to what the end result will be. Then there is the producing of them, how many people really have the experience to bring out the best in a youngster, to get the horse/pony to perform to the best of it’s ability? There is a huge gap, & I don’t see it closing in the near future because the issues we have now we had back in the early 80’s. I just wish that if we have to import that we import the best not the cast offs.
 
What infrastructure are you all going on about? I appear to be slightly lost with this one.
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not only the lateral work

there has also been the large debate about rollkur training - and you have to wonder how some of these young horses have been produced to get to the state in these videos.

One wonders why H&H doesn't do an article on the 'factory farming' production of these poor young horses on the continent and the effect this has on the longevity of the horses.

I bet the horse insurance industry has some good statistics buried in their computers. If only they could 'come clean' with these and prove to people that buying these overproduced foreign horses leads to large vets bills and premature death for the poor horses maybe something could be done about it.

Once again it comes down to money. Welfare, in regard to the rollkur debate, was but a small thing. The sale of these young damaged horses is the real money and would hit the producers in the pockets - and money talks

Also - they work on the 'horse is expendable' attitude. Breed hundreds, any dross gets put to the meat market (so they make money)
then over produce them too young (so they make even more money selling them to rich punters)
then the horse goes prematurely wrong due to disease and the foreign breeders make even more money selling the mug punter a replacement !!!

What a d**n gravy train - the only loser of course is the poor old horse - grrrrrrrrrrr
 
Furthest I would get my horses is Ireland, I often tease chris's dad about buying czech horses, but I never would, cheap is not always cheerful.
My mare has irish breeding but was produced in England, she is 26 and for me is the perfect horse- or as close as ever I should get. Same as ones we have had over from Irl- good bloodlines, good bone and last a lifetime, why should you not support the english breeders than venture off to western europe for a "horse to die for"
 
people blame the fact that we are 'fragmented' here - BWBS, AES, SH(GB) etc and yet the Germans manage with Holstein, Hannoverian, Rheinlander, etc

It's not the fragmentation - it's the lack of a top level organisation to pull it all together.

BHS doesn't, BTBA/Wetherbys - nope, and the ill-fated BHDatabase - well it was a start but that collapsed and the replacement thing based on the passport fiasco isn't going to fly very far either.

What we need is Richard Branson to sort this out and get UK horse breeding marketed properly at international level

or perhaps we could approach Alan Sugar - he markets just about anything successfully ;-)
 
It means we dont even compete with Ireland in receiving the backing with our breeding industry. There is not promotion going on. Ireland are very proud of their horses and at every oppertunity promot them including showing the breeding of the animals when they produce their records.
 
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What infrastructure are you all going on about? I appear to be slightly lost with this one.
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the huge support and advertising on the continent for youngstock sales, the (EU) funding used to build superbreeding yards, the tie-in between producers and competitors and young riders ..it if is happening in the UK it is being kept very quiet!
 
And all those Germanic breeds, look way back into their breeding - and what is there? Yup you guessed it CB
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You may all think I am nuts (well I am) but I am so passionate about this misrepresented breed - that is completely British.
 
they do LOOK lovely but I think they are doing far too much far too young and I'd really worry about what affect that has on them mentally and physically!

Airedale, you won't like me, I have an imported coloured horse lol!
 
Thanks for clearing that up
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True there is alot of promotion here for the ISH but its just a pity they cant sort out the RIDs before we lose one of the most vital ingredients of our famous ISH
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Im with you SSM
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(well just in regard to a different breed
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