No words

[ycbm]

And here are the people who did it

https://www.facebook.com/paula.oconnor.779/posts/10212081861335230

If those people are immigrants from an African nation, and I accept that's a big if, it's quite possible that their previous experience of driving near equines was in an environment like this. How about a little more understanding of the amount of knowledge most people have about leisure horses in this country, folks?

Careless driving is the only appropriate charge.

 

[MuffettMischief]

I think its quite clear from the video that the driver essentially scoops the horse up onto the bonnet and the horses back leg ends up on the windscreen. You can see in a post further up, the hole in the windscreen. I dont see how people can be saying it was the reaction from the horse!

 

[ycbm]

I think its quite clear from the video that the driver essentially scoops the horse up onto the bonnet and the horses back leg ends up on the windscreen. You can see in a post further up, the hole in the windscreen. I dont see how people can be saying it was the reaction from the horse!

I'm sorry but I don't believe it is possible for a car going at that slow a speed to scoop a horse up onto the bonnet, and if it did, it would have swept the hind legs forwards underneath it and it would not have been able to kick in the windscreen from that position. I saw the horse react to being touched on the hocks by the car, and try to kick the 'predator's' head in.

I am amazed that some people think that a high viz quarter sheet would definitely have made no difference.

 

[MuffettMischief]

I'm sorry but I don't believe it is possible for a car going at that speed to scoop a horse up unto the bonnet, and if it did, it would have swept the hind legs forwards underneath it and it would not have been able to kick in the windscreen from that position.

The car drives into the horses bum, so it scoops him up by his hind legs and his hock goes through the windscreen. Its entirely possible, Its quite clear how its happened from the video and then the pictures further down. In another post I saw somewhere, it said the horse had a badly injured hock, the hole in the widnscreen would match up with that.
Obviously you cant see it that way so ill leave that there!

 

[Goldenstar]

Any driver who can hit a large horse at a slow speed from a few feet behind it is not going to helped by a quarter sheet . Horses are not invisible and they a certainly not invisible in such circumstances from a few feet away .

 

[ycbm]

Any driver who can hit a large horse at a slow speed from a few feet behind it is not going to helped by a quarter sheet . Horses are not invisible and they a certainly not invisible in such circumstances from a few feet away .

It wasn't about being able to see the horse. It was about not understanding how it might react if he tried to push it along the road with his car.

The quarter sheet in bright orange or yellow marks the horse clearly as a hazard. I don't see how anyone can be certain that this driver would not have taken it as a warning to keep their distance. I think it is foolhardy in the extreme to ride in an urban environment like that with no hi viz.

 

[ycbm]

The car drives into the horses bum, so it scoops him up by his hind legs and his hock goes through the windscreen. Its entirely possible, Its quite clear how its happened from the video and then the pictures further down. In another post I saw somewhere, it said the horse had a badly injured hock, the hole in the widnscreen would match up with that.
Obviously you cant see it that way so ill leave that there!

The picture of the horse above has a bandage around the lower part of the leg exactly where it would have cut itself had it put a foot through the windscreen.

 

[Beausmate]

If those people are immigrants from an African nation, and I accept that's a big if, it's quite possible that their previous experience of driving near equines was in an environment like this. How about a little more understanding of the amount of knowledge most people have about leisure horses in this country, folks?

Careless driving is the only appropriate charge.

It doesn't matter where they're from, it also isn't the fact it was a horse they hit. What matters is the fact that they drove into a large object, seemingly without seeing it and buggered off.

So, driving without due care and attention, plus failing to stop. I have my doubts that everything was legal as far as the driver and their vehicle is concerned.

 

[cobgoblin]

I hope they tested that driver's eyesight.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

It wasn't about being able to see the horse. It was about not understanding how it might react if he tried to push it along the road with his car.

The quarter sheet in bright orange or yellow marks the horse clearly as a hazard. I don't see how anyone can be certain that this driver would not have taken it as a warning to keep their distance. I think it is foolhardy in the extreme to ride in an urban environment like that with no hi viz.

Hi-viz is irrelevant in this case given that she was right behind it in daylight in a low-speed area. Only someone with eyesight issues that means they shouldn't be driving could have not seen half a tonne of animal in front of them. Your logic would surely mean that all cars should be painted in hi-viz in case a driver can't see them. Ludicrous. If she can't stop then she's driving too close it's as simple as that.

 

[DabDab]

If those people are immigrants from an African nation, and I accept that's a big if, it's quite possible that their previous experience of driving near equines was in an environment like this. How about a little more understanding of the amount of knowledge most people have about leisure horses in this country, folks?

Careless driving is the only appropriate charge.

The fact it was a horse is irrelevant - as a general rule you should be aware of the need to avoid driving into stuff, even more so when the thing you're driving into has a pulse.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist, or someone who grew up in Britain.

That sort of a clip to a cyclist could've been life threatening.

If you lack the talent or temperament to drive then you shouldn't get in a car. In my view, the law needs to be one hell of a lot tougher when it comes to motoring offences.

 

[ester]

Again it really doesn't matter how the object reacts if you hit it, whether you know what an object will do if you hit it, you don't hit it! That's a pretty fundamental part of driving surely? If I were on the bike which doesn't react in anyway and someone did that they would be driving over the top of me....

Re. the injury. I think it is perfectly possible that it had cuts in more than one area of it's leg... It has been reported that it has had surgery on it's hock I don't see any reason to doubt that from the info available.

 

[PeterNatt]

She was driving far to close to the horse.
The accident caused the rider to be thrown.
She drove away after the accident.
She should be charged with 'Driving without due Care and Attention' have her licence taken away from her and made to re-take her driving test.
The owner of the horse should take a 'Private Civil Action' against the driver and claim for the expenses involved in treating the horse and the diminished value of the horse.

 

[Merlod]

If those people are immigrants from an African nation, and I accept that's a big if, it's quite possible that their previous experience of driving near equines was in an environment like this. How about a little more understanding of the amount of knowledge most people have about leisure horses in this country, folks?

Careless driving is the only appropriate charge.

Where they came from isn't really a justifiable excuse though is it? When my parents moved over to the UK from South Africa they had to take British driving tests as their SA licence's weren't valid. So providing the woman driving had a full UK licence she should be entirely aware of passing safely. This is inexcusable, whether ignorance or intentional and I doubt you'd be saying the same if this were your horse.

 

[Hanno Verian]

Where they came from isn't really a justifiable excuse though is it? When my parents moved over to the UK from South Africa they had to take British driving tests as their SA licence's weren't valid. So providing the woman driving had a full UK licence she should be entirely aware of passing safely. This is inexcusable, whether ignorance or intentional and I doubt you'd be saying the same if this were your horse.

I absolutely agree, because behaviour is acceptable in another country does not mean that it is acceptable in the UK. They were driving in the UK either on UK licences having passed a driving test in this country or they had become resident in the UK and exchanged their foreign licence for a UK licence, or they were a visitor driving on a foreign licence for the duration of their stay.

In parts of the world infanticide is accepted practice, so is child marriage, fortunately it is not in the UK and nor would it be acceptable for an immigrant from another culture to marry a child bride in the UK, the same applies to driving.

I don't think a private prosecution would work unless the injured party has deep pockets or access to free legal representation, however, A No Win - No Fee solicitor would be likely to take it on and pursue them for damages in the civil court as the burden of proof is lower

 

[ycbm]

I am not suggesting that it was acceptable.

I am saying that it was understandable.

And that the only possible charge in UK law is careless driving. (The damages to the horse will be paid for by their insurance if they have any. If they don't, I doubt they will have any money to pay her.)

And that the majority of UK horse owners grossly overestimate the understanding that non horse people have about how horses behave.

And that because bad drivers are absolutely everywhere, law or no law, we all owe it to ourselves to keep as safe as we possibly can.

And that rider didn't.

 

[ester]

But that is the point, you don't need understanding of any object to know it is a bad idea to hit it with your car, even if said object is a lampost?

If the horse had spooked and the car had then hit it, yes absolutely, understanding of possible behaviour would have been helpful but this horse didn't stray from its line until it was hit.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

How to pass horses is in the Highway code. Anyone who has passed a UK driving test has to abide by it.

 

[Cecile]

This may be a good idea to watch as it is interesting, it is basically about cyclists and vehicles but part of it is a good police idea, when you get to the part where a measuring stick is stuck to a bike you will get the drift (Do try not to laugh when the cyclist says about sticking the measuring thingy on his chopper as I think he will live to regret that remark)

Obviously I am not advocating gluing a measuring stick to a horses leg but this is quite a thought provoking programme about keeping distances

Jon Cuthill, Inside Out South, 23rd Oct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09bhnyv/inside-out-south-23102017

 

[ester]

Close passes happen all the time, especially people cutting in too quick (and like last nights special then turning left across you :rolleyes3:. Even more irritating when there is nothing coming the other way so they have masses of space.

 

[Cecile]

I passed my driving test in the UAE long before I passed it in the UK (Very scary test in the UAE at the time, one policeman sat next to you and another sat in the back seat staring at you in the mirror) and it was catch you out all the way through it, turn left! Can't turn left its no right turn type of thing...........

When I returned to the UK I was allowed to drive on my International licence for x amount of time before I took a UK test

Not sure how suddenly following a horse closely and dashing off when its leg breaks your wind screen suddenly becomes an overseas type of excuse, did either the driver or the passenger not really notice the wind was blowing in through the front window when she drove off, my husband would of been screeching and grabbing the hand brake if he saw any type of leg in front of his face whilst I was driving or a smashed wind screen, maybe the passenger was asleep............ I assume he was the passenger

 

[Roxylola]

How to pass horses is in the Highway code. Anyone who has passed a UK driving test has to abide by it.

Technically, I don't think the highway code is enforceable as law.
Nonetheless the way the horse was passed was not appropriate, had it been anything but a horse hit in that way it would likely have been under the wheels of the car.
On a personal level I think a lot of driving offences ought to be prosecuted as attempted murder or gbh/abh charges. Ultimately you can use your car as a weapon and get away with minimal charges.

 

[limestonelil]

Can someone please put up a different link as I still can't find the it. TIA

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Technically, I don't think the highway code is enforceable as law.

Depends on whether the instruction says "must" or "should", the former is law and the latter is guidance (think that's the words/right way round, it's been a while since I looked at the Highway Code).

 

[ester]

It's on this group too

https://www.facebook.com/Idiotukdri...EfjzNIJWXWihjX5IRr6CD8svMvn_ynRnsOJf4&fref=nf

 

[Dave's Mam]

Has the original post gone again?

 

[Leo Walker]

This may be a good idea to watch as it is interesting, it is basically about cyclists and vehicles but part of it is a good police idea, when you get to the part where a measuring stick is stuck to a bike you will get the drift (Do try not to laugh when the cyclist says about sticking the measuring thingy on his chopper as I think he will live to regret that remark)

Obviously I am not advocating gluing a measuring stick to a horses leg but this is quite a thought provoking programme about keeping distances

Jon Cuthill, Inside Out South, 23rd Oct

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09bhnyv/inside-out-south-23102017

I carriage drive on the roads. I do it as little as possible but unfortunately you need to do some roadwork to get a horse fit enough to do what I do. If something is coming too fast or too close we will use hand signals to ask them not to and I will stick my whip out so they have to give me space. I've been known on occasion to belt the roof/bonnet of the car with it as well. If they are close enough that I can do that, then they are too close and I hope it gives them pause for thought.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I carriage drive on the roads. I do it as little as possible but unfortunately you need to do some roadwork to get a horse fit enough to do what I do. If something is coming too fast or too close we will use hand signals to ask them not to and I will stick my whip out so they have to give me space. I've been known on occasion to belt the roof/bonnet of the car with it as well. If they are close enough that I can do that, then they are too close and I hope it gives them pause for thought.

Something my late father used to do, too. He did once have a driver stop and remonstrate with him, needless to say, the driver got no change from Dad.

 

[Cecile]

I can't see the video but sounds similar to recent case in Hants but this was horse drawn vehicle, horse I believe died unfortunately, the driver of the car was over the drink/driving limit hence why he drove off. Not saying this driver was over the limit but to drive off when some sort of accident has taken place to me can only be a few things. Too much sherry, no insurance on car, banned driver taking a chance or you are blind

Apologies, this is the case I was recalling above, re pony and trap. The pony driver died not the pony, no point me reciting something if I get the facts wrong

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-41764161

 

[Leo Walker]

Something my late father used to do, too. He did once have a driver stop and remonstrate with him, needless to say, the driver got no change from Dad.

I'd love someone to be stupid enough to try that with me!