Wagtail
Horse servant
Thank you. That is exactly what I am trying to say.
No, you do not 'love' your horse if...
- Thread starter Wagtail
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Thank you. That is exactly what I am trying to say.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
Very good posts
Wagtail you are not showing yourself in the best light at all. As the thread has gone on you are making yourself out to be an idiot.
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Wagtail
Horse servant
Post a similar thread on a dog forum and what a different picture it would be.
My dog can't do agility anymore so I will PTS and get a new one, but I really love him.
My dog can't do agility anymore so I will PTS and get a new one, but I really love him.
Fairynuff
Well-Known Member
Ive been away for a few years and come back to find you exactly the same, full of your own importance and bull. You really are one consistent person
nicky_jakey
Well-Known Member
i find you completely insulting - I quote from your initial post:
"You say you will PTS as soon as it can no longer be ridden."
So why are you trying to insult both mine and others intelligence by going back on that now...????
You know nothing of other situations and seem to take pleasure from insulting others with crass generalisations....
Think before you post such rubbish next time, extremely thoughtless.
"You say you will PTS as soon as it can no longer be ridden."
So why are you trying to insult both mine and others intelligence by going back on that now...????
You know nothing of other situations and seem to take pleasure from insulting others with crass generalisations....
Think before you post such rubbish next time, extremely thoughtless.
Mrs B
Well-Known Member
This.
It's arrogant to presume you know what 'love' is in the first place, it's ignorant to presume other's don't and it's sanctimonious in that you believe your level of love is the true one and above others'.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
Wagtail that's a rubbish analogy. A dog costs a tenth of the price of a horse.
tomspride
Well-Known Member
Wagtail, what about people who ride their horses and ponies when they are clearly too heavy, do they love their horses?
The Fuzzy Furry
Old Timer
Wagtail, this time you have really gone too far. How can you make such a sweeping accusation in such a flippant way?
You do this type of thread, stating how very right and moral you are, every so often.
You do NOT have the right to make such a derogatory statement, I disagree with you.
Perhaps you ought to come on some FATE visits, then perhaps you might rethink moving from your very high pedestal :mad3:
You do this type of thread, stating how very right and moral you are, every so often.
You do NOT have the right to make such a derogatory statement, I disagree with you.
Perhaps you ought to come on some FATE visits, then perhaps you might rethink moving from your very high pedestal :mad3:
Leo Walker
Well-Known Member
Oh god, dont go there! The OP has some weird issue with weight as it is.
Wagtail
Horse servant
No, it's not because I am not talking about whether it is right or wrong, I am talking about if you really do love an animal you could not PTS just because you couldn't ride it. If you can't afford it or it is in pain, or personal circumstances change such as divorce, then that's entirely different. But then most people posting on this thread already know what I mean.
tomspride
Well-Known Member
oh dear, should be interesting hahaha
MargotC
Well-Known Member
If you take money entirely out of the equation, and have no trouble supporting as many retirees in the field as you wish for as long as you wish, and you still choose to put a horse to sleep provided it would be happy and easily kept as a field ornament I can see the reasoning behind the argument. But realistically how many horse owners does that utopical situation apply to? If wishes were horses and all that.
There might be a permille of people who view a horse as a disposable means to a goal, and who have no true interest in its wellbeing beyond reaching that goal, but I would maintain the majority of regular owners who have to make the call love the horse in question and make the call due to several contributing factors outside of their control. It is, I presume, that former permille this thread is aimed at.
"Not that I loved Caesar less, but that I loved Rome more." It is of course possible to truly love more than one thing at the same time. I would caution against hastily villifying a person who has to make the choice between letting go of a horse they love and keeping the horse but being unable to do what they love. Hypothetically if a horse breaks down and you keep it you might be unable to ride for well over a decade by which time you might yourself be unable to return to it. I daresay that hopeless choice is what many people face and choosing one over the other would to me say little about whether your love for the horse is "genuine".
I would personally rather a horse be put to sleep whilst in good condition rather than face an uncertain future and ultimately meet the same end.
There might be a permille of people who view a horse as a disposable means to a goal, and who have no true interest in its wellbeing beyond reaching that goal, but I would maintain the majority of regular owners who have to make the call love the horse in question and make the call due to several contributing factors outside of their control. It is, I presume, that former permille this thread is aimed at.
"Not that I loved Caesar less, but that I loved Rome more." It is of course possible to truly love more than one thing at the same time. I would caution against hastily villifying a person who has to make the choice between letting go of a horse they love and keeping the horse but being unable to do what they love. Hypothetically if a horse breaks down and you keep it you might be unable to ride for well over a decade by which time you might yourself be unable to return to it. I daresay that hopeless choice is what many people face and choosing one over the other would to me say little about whether your love for the horse is "genuine".
I would personally rather a horse be put to sleep whilst in good condition rather than face an uncertain future and ultimately meet the same end.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Thank you for your constructive post. You make some very good points. I was in a situation with my late mare where I could not afford another horse for a long time (as it turned out it was 3 years, but at the time I thought it would be permanent). I missed being able to ride her so much. But ultimately our bond was deeper than that and I loved her as a 'person' more than I loved being able to ride. The thought of putting her to sleep so I could get a new ridden horse was totally out of the question. That is why I am questioning why people can be happily riding their fully functioning horse and state that when they cannot be ridden they will PTS so they can have a new one, but then profess to love the horse. It is not love as I know it.
Evie91
Well-Known Member
I do somewhat agree to what Wagtail is saying, as explained by windandrain. When my horse was retired I spent a small fortune keeping her in the style as to which she had become accustomed. I could only afford one horse, but I loved that horse to bits and begrudged her nothing. It meant I couldn't ride and was well aware that she could go on for years, but to have her with me was worth it. She was PTS when she became ill.
Think people seem to be bringing lots of other issues into this. I don't believe in keeping horses going when the are in pain, but would medicate if needed.
I do think we are becoming a disposable society and it troubles me, some folks attitude to animals, elderly and even their own children. Hate to see older horses being rehomed but I admit I am very soft hearted!
Not sure about the cycling analogy either, if my husband could not do all he does now, would I still love him, yes absolutely!
I've no desire to cast judgment on others and that is not the purpose of my thread, just wanted to put a view point across.
Think people seem to be bringing lots of other issues into this. I don't believe in keeping horses going when the are in pain, but would medicate if needed.
I do think we are becoming a disposable society and it troubles me, some folks attitude to animals, elderly and even their own children. Hate to see older horses being rehomed but I admit I am very soft hearted!
Not sure about the cycling analogy either, if my husband could not do all he does now, would I still love him, yes absolutely!
I've no desire to cast judgment on others and that is not the purpose of my thread, just wanted to put a view point across.
Asha
Well-Known Member
Considering I quoted your original post, then it's clear I did read it.
I find your posts on this sad. One because I had a close call today and thought I had to make a difficult call. But more importantly because others may be in this situation and read this.
Evie91
Well-Known Member
Sorry if post does not make much sense on some heavy prescription meds today!
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Noooooo please nooooo .
{97702}
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Ah the troll in their purest format.... Wagtail you are a total pleb with absolutely no understanding of individUal circumstance......
MargotC
Well-Known Member
I have been in a similar situation and made the opposite call. I still struggle with that years on in spite of it being right at the time. I agree that "going in" before the fact with that "disposable" approach to a currently healthy horse or indeed any animal does boggle. You cannot really know what is the right decision for you until you find yourself having to make it.
Perhaps the attitude that is demonstrated by a permille of people illustrates how easily horse ownership can be gained? The easier an animal is to acquire the easier it seems to be to dispose of it when it becomes inconvenient and this seems to apply across species and hobbies.
MotherOfChickens
MotherDucker
was this the same mare that had a protracted recovery to being field sound and about which you had much support about on this forum?
eggs
Well-Known Member
Maybe I've just been lucky (although I doubt it) but in nearly 40 years of riding and then owning horses I have never met anyone who has had a horse PTS just because it could no longer be ridden when it could have a suitable retirement.
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
I remember that one.
Wagtail, I find your OP & your following posts insulting & frankly derogatory.
SusieT
Well-Known Member
totally agree. if you love the horse, taking good care of it in retirement is what you do when it can't be ridden but is happy in the field. if you aren't willing to do this or make excuses that the horse ' would miss being stabled' without even giving it a good try, you just want a horse to ride.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
It's not only about love, though I get the gist of what Wagtail is saying. It's also about how much you value life for its own sake.
I do have land and I have enough money to keep horses retired. Most of the horses I have owned have never made a big enough impact on my heart to mean that I would keep them retired. I have had one, (but he had to go to flat ground and work), and I think I probably have one now. So yes, I simply do/did not love the others as much.
I can't really imagine a situation where a horse can't hack about where I would be satisfied (given that they can't talk) that they were not in pain or distress retired.
But even if I could, I simply don't value life strongly enough, even for myself, to believe that it matters one jot how many retired days my horse might be given. It also matters more to me to know for certain that they never suffer a mute and inescapable degradation in their quality of life.
I would rather everyone in the country put every horse to sleep the moment it can't work any more, than witness one of the poor creatures I sometimes see being kept alive because people love them too much to let them go
I do have land and I have enough money to keep horses retired. Most of the horses I have owned have never made a big enough impact on my heart to mean that I would keep them retired. I have had one, (but he had to go to flat ground and work), and I think I probably have one now. So yes, I simply do/did not love the others as much.
I can't really imagine a situation where a horse can't hack about where I would be satisfied (given that they can't talk) that they were not in pain or distress retired.
But even if I could, I simply don't value life strongly enough, even for myself, to believe that it matters one jot how many retired days my horse might be given. It also matters more to me to know for certain that they never suffer a mute and inescapable degradation in their quality of life.
I would rather everyone in the country put every horse to sleep the moment it can't work any more, than witness one of the poor creatures I sometimes see being kept alive because people love them too much to let them go
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Alec Swan
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piglet2001
Well-Known Member
Thank you goldenstar
I love him dearly. But 20 years is a long time for a young horse who I am not ashamed to say that I bought to do a job (to hunt) before ultimately selling him.
Some would have unscrupulously sold him I am sure as he would pass a 2 stage but not withstand any work.
Instead I loved him, had him insured luckily, tried barefoot (he still is) along with regular physio etc. I am going to say good bye due to him having no job, I could keep him financially - but why? I feel I have given him a lovely last few years with plenty of food, nice friends and 24/7 turnout. I felt I owed it to him after he had a horrid start in life.
He will not know and he has had an honourable retirement. Why is living out his days in a 4 acre field better? I would rather see a good looking 9 year old put down than watch home get creaky and have him until he is 29. It must be boring for him seeing his friends go out. In fact I know it is when the trailer leaves for hunting he has a massive strop! In the wild a predator may have got him as his legs would not stand 20 miles a day. He would have more than 4 acres to roam and a whole herd.
I believe I have done the best for him and me. I am not sorry or ashamed but proud that I can make the decision on my own terms.
Thank you
Theocat
Well-Known Member
You should be very proud x
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
You have made a brave & kind decision & I also believe you love your horse. Beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Theocat
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry; you aren't being clear. Exactly which type of financial decision does it have to be before it means we do love the horse?
We suddenly lose all our income and savings coincidentally when the horse has to be retired?
We're unable to actually find the money, despite every effort, to cover big vet bills?
We balk at the idea of paying out, potentially, £120,000 to keep it? (That's five hundred quid a month for twenty years) Remember, we get to okay it over time which makes it "affordable".
Or are you actually just saying that those for whom money really is no object, who get rid of the horse the second it ceases work, are the only ones you're referring to?
The vast majority of those choosing to put an animal down before it becomes necessary are making a financial decision of one kind of another. You can't possibly draw a line through such a grey area and dictate which people love their horse and which don't.
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