No, you do not 'love' your horse if...

[Micropony]

Doormouse I shed a tear at your post. So sorry you are going through that, and I hope your horse's last day is a happy one.

Wagtail, I am not at all sure what you were hoping to achieve with this thread and can only give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you failed to realise how upsetting and offensive it would be to many people, for some of whom you will by now surely have realised PTS is very much a current or a very raw issue, and your post has been, shall we say, unhelpful.

Just under two years ago I had my much loved first horse PTS. It was not because he could no longer be ridden, but because it was the humane thing to do for him. However much I know I did the right thing for him, I can't help but wonder whether there might have been someone like you who didn't know all the circumstamces judging my decision and feeling smug and superior. Other people's opinions on those things don't generally matter very much to me, but we're all a lot more sensitive when we are at such a low ebb.

Whilst you have been clear you agrer the question of "love" has scant relevance to quality of care, on this thread you come across to me as smug, superior, extremely judgemental and really very unkind. That's not an impression I have gained from other posts of yours that I have read, so will just assume you are having a very bad day indeed.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Wagtail, I hope the responses you have prompted & many sad memories will perhaps put your perception on a more even keel.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I used to be more sentimental about horses etc but then I had to stand in resus and make the decision to allow my 6 year old daughter to die. I love my animals to the moon and back but believe me I would not struggle with any decision now regarding PTS...for ANY reason.

 

[Enfys]

I had my horse pts because he was no longer rideable, and I don't, and didn't, give a stuff what anyone else thinks, or thought.

My horse, my business.

I didn't discuss my decision with all and sundry, I never feel the need to justify myself, I didn't ask their permission, I didn't need it, or their blessing.

As for the love thing, I am actually not sure what that is when it comes to animals, at all really, how do you quantify it?

Maybe I just think love should be more than it actually is, that each of us see it differently, a little like someone saying Niagara Falls are awesome -

" What are you ON ? Really? Awesome ? "

to me they aren't, I've seen them every which way, from two countries, and in the middle, more times than I would ever want to, they are not even vaguely impressive as far as I am concerned, but I have stood there, at the rails, in the bloody spray, and listened to the oohs and the ahhhs in umpteen different languages thinking 'are you guys for real?'

See what I mean?

We don't all fit certain parameters.

 

[Fairynuff]

Wagtail that's a rubbish analogy. A dog costs a tenth of the price of a horse.

Plus a dog can happily spend time mooching around in the house/garden and is more than happy to curl up on your bed. You cannot compare horses with dogs. Utterly ridiculous. Methinks Wagtail is now trying to water down her crassness

 

[Shantara]

I wish people would love their horses less and take care of them more. IME it is the animal lovers who tend to keep their horses (and other animals) going far, far longer than is kind or reasonable, because they "love them too much to kill them".

There's a whole lor of tarring with that same ol' brush going on in this thread!!
I love my Neddy more than most things. Not more than my family of course, but it's not far off. I loved my gorgeous little dog more than most other things too, but I knew we PTS at the right time with her. A week sooner and it would have been pointless, she was a happy dog! A week later and it would have been unfair, she might have been in bad pain. We did the deed just as she started to show signs of discomfort and the vet said it'd just get worse and it would get worse quickly.

I do consider myself a fluffybunny (GASP!) because I care a vast amount about my animals, they are living creatures and have feelings and emotions. However, it's ALSO wrong to suggest that I will let them suffer because of that!

I think there should be a little less judgement and sweeping statements! If Wagtail is rediculous for saying you don't love your horses enough, then you're rediculous for suggesting we'll harm our animals by loving too much!

 

[DD]

You say you will PTS as soon as it can no longer be ridden.

We all have different views, and it is true that the horse doesn't know it is going to be PTS because when it's dead, it's dead and so long as it is done well, then it is none the wiser. It does not suffer. If the owner has also taken care of it well throughout ownership, then they are a good owner from the horse's point of view. But please, people who state that they will PTS as soon as the horse cannot do its job, even if it is very happy and comfortable not being ridden, you do not love the horse. You love riding the horse and competing the horse and hunting the horse, or hacking, whatever, and you are probably a kind responsible owner, but you do not love your horse. If you really love your horse for itself, as a living, breathing being, then you would keep the horse in retirement, end of.

Now, I am not for one second condemning people who do this. Not one bit. I am just saying that they do not love their horse and they shouldn't state that they do. They care for it and treat it well but they do not know what it is like to love a horse if that is what they think it is.

Also, not all horses are equal. Some get to you more than others. One day they may meet a horse that they really do love, and then to PTS so they can get a new one would be the last thing they would want to do.

Then they will know what it is like to love a horse.

^^^^^
couldnt agree more, very good post.

 

[cattysmith]

I used to be more sentimental about horses etc but then I had to stand in resus and make the decision to allow my 6 year old daughter to die. I love my animals to the moon and back but believe me I would not struggle with any decision now regarding PTS...for ANY reason.

That's just devastating beyond comprehension. The worst thing anyone could go through. Suffering personal tragedies like that definitely does put everything else into different perspective.

 

[Brownmare]

I wish people would love their horses less and take care of them more. IME it is the animal lovers who tend to keep their horses (and other animals) going far, far longer than is kind or reasonable, because they "love them too much to kill them".

This ^^^^ in spades

 

[Merlod]

I absolutely agree with wagtail. I think some people are either taking it the wrong way (nothing wrong with pts for health) or are in denial as many people seem to act like it was their only option even when it was a horse who could have been happily field sound, again, as wagtail said, there is absolutely no problem in putting a horse down (and I am for it to stop old/injured horses being passed around) but I do find it a little insulting to say you love your horse as much as the people who keep their old/retired/field sound horses alive and happy even at the expense of the fun stuff or having a riding horse.

My little sister has a 13.2 connemara, he went dead lame and ended up having to have an annular ligament desmotomy where they also found a damage to the manica flexoria, he had the op. we did all the rehab but he never came sound enough to ride. She was gutted and even when my (non horsey) dad said to “let him go” and she could get a new one she refused, he is her dear friend and a part of our family, he taught her to ride and we owe him a retirement and when the times comes a dignified end. I do feel for her, as we can’t afford two ponies for her but she has made the decision to keep her old friend even whilst all her friends and girls her age are out competing and moving on to horses. Now that is someone who loves their horse and I am very proud as I would do exactly the same.

 

[luckyoldme]

A lot of the replies on here aren t really relevant.most examples given are horses who were pts for good reason.
I should imagine there are very few of us who would keep an old ,lame and unhappy horse going.
I think the real difference is that some of us just could nt imagine for a moment being able to go to the field putting a head collar on a perfectly healthy , happy and content horse bringing it in and having it pts, having owned and loved it for a long time.
Personally i just could nt deal with the emotions of that. I know other people can but i cant. It does nt mean im going to keep my old boy until he is hobbling round the field and unhappy. In fact Im glad i don t have to watch him suffer like we have to watch our old human loved ones suffer.

 

[ester]

But several including wagtail have now also added that there is nothing wrong with PTS for financial reasons..

Now I am not sure what those financial reasons have to be to make it ok, absolute skintness? Wanting to save the ££ that you were spending on the horse so you might finally be able to buy a house? Because when you bought the horse you decided it was never going to happen so you would just enjoy life instead. Losing your job or not being able to work?

Is the sheer fact that as has been pointed out earlier that if you horse is going to have potentially 20, even 10 years of retirement, spending several hundred pounds a month adds up to a huge amount of money that you are then going to deny your family of?

I'm not sure what I think about it, other than I think everyone and every situation is different so I wouldn't judge. People may love them just as much as those that keep horses for 20 years retired but they may have had to make a very hard decision for other reasons beyond their control.

 

[mytwofriends]

Agree.
TBH I wouldn't presume to tell anyone how they feel about their horse when they are facing retirement, nor to question their decisions provided the horse wasn't suffering. None of my business.

This ^^^

There's something about some horse folk which I find very unappealing, and that is their unwavering opinions. No-one else's have any bearing. Black or white, no grey area, no compromise.

In MY humble opinion, so long as a horse isn't suffering, or may face suffering due to an unknown future, whether an owner loves it or not is completely irrelevant to anyone but the owner themself.

 

[oldie48]

Oh dear, I now know I don't love my adorable husband of 30 years, I haven't felt a squeeee for a very long time! I've had the old TB for a very long time, when he was ridden I often thought he was a bit of a b......r, he's been retired for several years now and I probably feel more genuine affection for him now than I did when he was a younger active horse and he's much more affectionate towards me. I am lucky that I can give him a retirement and he has a job, being BFF to Mr B. I never feel a squeeee for him though!

I define love as that "squeeee" feeling you get when you think or see said person/animal.

 

[Wagtail]

Thank you to those who have constructively replied to this thread and understood the point I was trying to make. I did try to quote you all but then lost the reply.

And those who have told their stories on here about the very sad call they have had to make; not one of you falls into the situation I am talking about. Not one.

The thread is not about what is right or wrong, but about the flippant way someone can say that they love their horse when in the same breath they have said that it will be PTS as soon as it can't work. There are, of course some very valid reasons for this, for example if the horse for whatever reason could not comfortably or happily retire. Only the owner knows this and I make no judgement on that. I am not saying this is wrong. Also, as I have previously said, some horses just get to you more than others and the same owner would not necessarily take the same action on the same decision with every one of them.

For those who say this thread is a troll post or just meant to upset people, how could it do that unless you are a person who intends to shoot their horse in order to get a new one but who also says they love the horse? And as someone says, these people are a very small minority.

Then there are the usual haters who just see any of my threads and jump in purposely misinterpreting what I have said and deflecting the thread, and making personal insults. I stopped engaging with you individually a long time ago. You know who you are. Contrary to what you say, you sit and wait for these threads (God knows where you find the time). You love my threads, so get over yourselves.

The thread was a reaction to what someone said on this forum. I have seen it said before and I just thought, no, you do not love your horse. I am surprised, if I am 'preaching to the choir' why so many people are objecting to this thread. It is not aimed at people who have to make that call and the horse is in pain, or they cannot afford to keep the horse in retirement, or the horse just would not settle in retirement (though these are rare horses). It is aimed at people who view their horses as riding machines who will shoot it when it is no longer of use even though they can afford to keep it when it is able to carry them AND in the same breath say they love the horse. They don't; they love RIDING the horse.

 

[Goldenstar]

Sacimonious in the extreme .

 

[touchstone]

I live near someone who takes great pride in letting everyone know how much they love their horse, unfortunately this has turned into anthropomorphism and the owners are completely unaware of the horses preferences. It has to stand while grown adults hug it's neck and kiss it's nose while it is obviously irritated by the whole thing. It is stabled at the slightest drop of rain which it hates and box walks. It is taken for long outings and galloped when totally unfit because it enjoys it. I'm pretty sure that it will have to continue into old age even if it has a myriad of ailments as they love it so much.
What they are confusing is love with selfishness and self gratification, because they've fussed incessantly over the horse they feel good about themselves, the horse couldn't give two hoots and would probably prefer to be given some peace, so II do think that sometimes distancing ourselves from the emotional side and really looking at what is best for them is a totally different kettle of fish to what some would describe as love.
Care and compassion have to be priority as others have said. Somebody who humanely ends a horses life shouldn't be judged, there are fates far worse and only the owner is in a position to decide if the choice is right without us saying they don't love their horse.

 

[Stockers]

I have a horse because I love riding. I am not Lady-Manyacres. I cannot justify keeping a horse at livery that I cannot ride. My horse is 11 years old and thrives on work. He wouldn;t happily retire out at grass. I think it's clear what I would do. Do I love him? I absolutely adore him and would do right by him when the time comes, as I have with other horses.

No one can tell me I don't love my horse becasuse of any decision I may make in the above circumstances and quite frankly they should look to their own busines before making sweeping judgements of others.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

I know someone who "loves" her horses. She barely lets them out, they have a strict and boring routine, they are over rugged and molly coddled and they bite and shove because she feeds titbits all the time. Love is very hard to define as it can be a selfish thing. So it all depends on how you define love.

 

[ester]

But the 'being able to afford' bit is the complication is it not?
Because for most, the not being able to afford means choosing to spend your money on something else? Because your priorities and family commitments might have changed over the years. You might be up for living on beans on toast but your husband and kids might be less keen.
As I said it is all so subjective and very judgemental and presumptive on people's feelings.

 

[Merlod]

I’m not sure people are getting the point, of this, there seem to be two extremes that nobody seems to be seeing past, I think this post was aimed at the first extreme;

1)People who put their horse down as soon as it’s riding career is over, even if it would be field sound and happy retired (and say things like he wouldn’t be happy living out at grass/retired.. um I don't count this as "love" stop pretending you are pts for your horses well-being and just admit it's for you own reasons)

2)People who keep their horses going even when it’s past their time and they are struggling with life (because they “love” them too much and just let the horse suffer on even when it can't get up anymore etc)

And then there are the “normal” varieties of these;

1)People who PTS because their horse is struggling or they can’t afford to keep it and they don’t want it passed from pillar to post.

2)People who retire their horses because they ARE field sound and still understand the horse will be PTS when the time comes.

 

[Wagtail]

I’m not sure people are getting the point, of this, there seem to be two extremes that nobody seems to be seeing past, I think this post was aimed at the first extreme;

1)People who put their horse down as soon as it’s riding career is over, even if it would be field sound and happy retired (and say things like he wouldn’t be happy living out at grass/retired.. um I don't count this as "love" stop pretending you are pts for your horses well-being and just admit it's for you own reasons)

2)People who keep their horses going even when it’s past their time and they are struggling with life (because they “love” them too much and just let the horse suffer on even when it can't get up anymore etc)

And then there are the “normal” varieties of these;

1)People who PTS because their horse is struggling or they can’t afford to keep it and they don’t want it passed from pillar to post.

2)People who retire their horses because they ARE field sound and still understand the horse will be PTS when the time comes.

Exactly. Put much more clearly than I did.

 

[Mongoose11]

And yet, I've only ever met one person who is as OP describes but plenty who let the horse carry on in pain, unable to live as a horse should because the owner can't let them go. I can only presume therefore that the thread was designed to cause upset rather than attempt to address the absolute minority who actually take the course of action she describes. From my reading only one person here would/has taken the action she described so who is OP attempting to communicate with?

Hypocrisy is rife!

 

[ljohnsonsj]

I’m not sure people are getting the point, of this, there seem to be two extremes that nobody seems to be seeing past, I think this post was aimed at the first extreme;

1)People who put their horse down as soon as it’s riding career is over, even if it would be field sound and happy retired (and say things like he wouldn’t be happy living out at grass/retired.. um I don't count this as "love" stop pretending you are pts for your horses well-being and just admit it's for you own reasons)

2)People who keep their horses going even when it’s past their time and they are struggling with life (because they “love” them too much and just let the horse suffer on even when it can't get up anymore etc)

And then there are the “normal” varieties of these;

1)People who PTS because their horse is struggling or they can’t afford to keep it and they don’t want it passed from pillar to post.

2)People who retire their horses because they ARE field sound and still understand the horse will be PTS when the time comes.

Sorry but I can't fully agree with your statement. Some horses that do a job, and I mean properly do a job not just pop to the odd unaff really couldn't cope well with being retired. My old show jumper is now in a hacking home, but if the time comes she is 'retired' she would not be happy being in a field. She can't cope being out she is far to stressy and busy in her mind standing in a field would drive her insane. She has never been happy being out for a long period of time, be it in a group or on her own. So what is best here? Stable and turn out for a few hours a horse that would never be happy not doing a job or PTS? Because PTS would cause the horse a lot less mental strain. As for the general statement of this post goes I don't give two hoots what people decide to do at the end of their horses ridden career and other people shouldn't either.

 

[ihatework]

And yet, I've only ever met one person who is as OP describes but plenty who let the horse carry on in pain, unable to live as a horse should because the owner can't let them go. I can only presume therefore that the thread was designed to cause upset rather than attempt to address the absolute minority who actually take the course of action she describes. Not one person here would take the action she described so who is OP attempting to communicate with?

Hypocrisy is rife!

Couldn't agree more.
Other than I don't recall ever having met someone as described by the OP
However I have come across countless people who have severely compromised quality of life for their much loved horses.
I recently took that awful decision for my much loved 20yo cushings horse. He reached the point where he couldn't live like a normal horse without contracting laminitis. I was not willing to put him through months/years of confinement, dieting, lack of equine interaction. But many people do in the name of love.

 

[ester]

I’m not sure people are getting the point, of this, there seem to be two extremes that nobody seems to be seeing past, I think this post was aimed at the first extreme;

1)People who put their horse down as soon as it’s riding career is over, even if it would be field sound and happy retired (and say things like he wouldn’t be happy living out at grass/retired.. um I don't count this as "love" stop pretending you are pts for your horses well-being and just admit it's for you own reasons)

It's the 'own reasons' that are the issue though aren't they, because that is what people are questioning the validity of and that they must mean you don't love the horse.

 

[hollyandivy123]

Mongoose11, unfortunately in the last 30+ years i have been involved with horse i have seen both 1, (its broken, it wouldn't be happy in the field, PTS and new model) and 2 (just a little bit longer) many a time. the second one is easier to explain, it is difficult to see what is in front of your eyes when you are that emotionally attached to it.

is the first one wrong?..........everyone is different and some people show emotion differently, have a public face and at home face and the new model might actually be a way to move forward.

A couple of times when i have seen the new model break the same way as the old then you have to ask if it is a management/rider issue.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

...

 

[ester]

Off the top of my head I know of one who said hers wouldn't retire after a career ending injury.
She had others in retirement and her own land so no obvious reasons not to, equally she was one of the most experienced horsewomen I know who had the horse a long time. I know she got questioned on it but I think people needed to trust that she knew her horse and it was the right decision for them, together. She didn't replace him.

 

[ktj1891]

Okay so this thread hits a chord in me slightly. In 2010 my pony who had only just turned 8 at the time fractured her knee. Vets advised me to PTS as she would no longer be ridden and cost be money for potentially 20 years to sit in a field. I was only 18 and she was bought for me at 15 and was my first pony. Fast forward 6 years I still have her and she is now 14 and was brought back into some work in Jan 15 and now has a sharer and hacks a few times a week.

I am now in a position where I cannot really afford her as I have another horse and paying 2 livery bills is very expensive for someone on a very average wage. What do I do, get her PTS? 1. Mainly because she costs me money which I cannot afford and 2. As she can never return to the work she used to do. I am finding myself thinking about this constantly as on the outside she is a happy healthy pony albeit cannot be 'worked' in the same way however, I already have another riding horse and she is costing me a lot of money to do nothing for me effectively. Do I not love my horse if I did put her down?

Your post seems to be aimed at a miniscule amount of people because the way I see it for me anyways...pretty much A LOT of people are contrained by the cost of keeping horses. They are a luxury and not a necessity and if you have money to keep a horse going for 20 years without in denting your pocket or way in which you live then fair enough im sure most people would do the same.

I have kept my mare 6 years from her injury and am now starting to realise more and more the implications of the decision I made when I was 18 and the constant battle in my head now on the decision I need to make going forwards.