Not sure if I have bought the right horse

[Meowy Catkin]

So you like him but he's a bit too much for you?

There is the option of working on your own fitness and having regular lessons on him with a good instructor. So basically at the same time as training and improving him, you up your game too. It does take dedication and it isn't the easy option (that is to sell and buy the horse you need now) but i have seen it work.

 

[ester]

just crack on and do the ridden stuff

 

[NooNoo59]

Yes he has had a lot of change so he was bought from the the breeder in July by someone who wanted to drive, which they said he wasnt suitable for, he was then in Malvern sales in September, then with the dealer and I bought him in November. He was then on full livery for a month at my professionals yard and then he came to the yard I keep him at in December. So yes thinking about it a lot of change but no changes in the last 4 months, so why start reacting to stuff now?? I have always been very firm with him on the ground and on board. He was very sweaty on the lorry which also strikes of anxiety?? This is what I like about the forum is it makes you think when people compare experiences. I am talking to my instructor and friend tomorrow.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Drop the Sarcens Balancer, is it the Essential balancer? My friend fed her mare this, and it sent her loopy. She said once try this on your Welsh, felt like I was riding a wild stallion the next day.
You could completely stop feeding it for a few days, and see if hes any different?

Its listed as 9% sugar on their website, but is missing a lot of what adds up to 100% so can only assume more than that is molasses and not disclosed? It also has oatfeed in it too. I'm sure someone will know feeds and correct me?
https://www.saracenhorsefeeds.com/balancers/essential-balancer#nutritional-info

My Welsh is EXTREMELY food sensitive to certain things. If he is fed any mix he comes out in a rash and anything sweet he goes nuts. I'm sure someone would recommend a different low cal balancer? I know a few friends who feed Baileys Low Cal, I feed Equilibria balancer but that can send some horses loopy. If hes thin you could feed fast fibre for weight as that has little sugar and lots of fibre for a sugar sensitive horse with some chaff, or calm and condition instead of the fast fibre if that doesn't heat him up. Mine is a good weight, in summer he literally gets some balancer and half a handful of chaff, thats it. Sometimes only a carrot..

 

[NooNoo59]

I have a 7 year old Welsh D, I bought him at 3. When he was about 4 he started getting very bargy , pushing me around and bullying other ponies.
He barged me one day and I lost it a bit (nothing violent) grabbed him by the head collar, took him into stable, pushed him back off me, looked him in the eye and told him, “we don’t do things like that round here! We behave nicely and don’t push other people.” Amazingly his bad behaviour stopped that day. I like to think he understood what I said, more likely because I reacted quickly and pushed him back at the right time I got his respect.
I did lots of ground work with him to keep his brain occupied and he is very clever.
When I started taking him out he could get a bit wound up and wouldn’t stand still at lorry. Now he is completely chilled, stands to be tacked up, will stand for hours.
He is a fantastic pony. If you can perhaps get some professional help and persist, if you like him in other ways I think it would be worth it.

Mine is dun too, and very pretty. OP noticed you are in Kent, I am too could recommend someone who could help you.

I am using Fiona Maynard she rides him once a week and can have him to stay at boarding school if required! I have also used Tom Diamond in the past and I wonder whether he might be worth a call as well

 

[NooNoo59]

Drop the Sarcens Balancer, is it the Essential balancer? My friend fed her mare this, and it sent her loopy. She said once try this on your Welsh, felt like I was riding a wild stallion the next day.
You could completely stop feeding it and see if hes any different?

Its listed as 9% sugar on their website, but is missing a lot of what adds up to 100% so can only assume more than that is molasses and not disclosed? It also has oatfeed in it too.
https://www.saracenhorsefeeds.com/balancers/essential-balancer#nutritional-info

My Welsh is EXTREMELY food sensitive to certain things. If he is fed any mix he comes out in a rash and anything sweet he goes nuts. I'm sure someone would recommend a different low cal balancer? I know a few friends who feed Baileys Low Cal, I feed Equilibria balancer but that can send some horses loopy. You could feed fast fibre for weight as that has little sugar and lots of fibre with some chaff, or calm and condition instead of the fast fibre.

He has been having this since January, would he not have reacted sooner??

 

[Hormonal Filly]

He has been having this since January, would he not have reacted sooner??

When did he start acting like this? I thought it was since purchase which would of been January time? Is he on good grazing? It could be the sugar in the grass causing him to feel fresh as well. Mines been a right turnip at the moment, trotting sideways when being led as the grass is rich

 

[NooNoo59]

When did he start acting like this? I thought it was since purchase which would of been January time? Is he on good grazing? It could be the sugar in the grass causing him to feel fresh as well. Mines been a right turnip at the moment, trotting sideways when being led as the grass is rich

He has become a bit more stressy in the last month tbh more bargy and then the bad behaviour at the show. Been pretty chilled up to that point, only a bit full of himself when I was poorly and he had a week off. Wonder if it is diet related, prob need to cut the feed right back as grass is coming thru. Although they are still coming in at night. Also when we go on to 24/7 I was planning to bring him in during the day and turn out at night

 

[ihatework]

He has become a bit more stressy in the last month tbh more bargy and then the bad behaviour at the show. Been pretty chilled up to that point, only a bit full of himself when I was poorly and he had a week off. Wonder if it is diet related, prob need to cut the feed right back as grass is coming thru. Although they are still coming in at night. Also when we go on to 24/7 I was planning to bring him in during the day and turn out at night

My vote is the grass. Turns some into right plonkers.

I had one a few years ago who I got religiously slam dunk broncoed off (more than once) in April, 3 years in a row.

 

[splashgirl45]

i still think it could be food related, the grass is coming through and that may just have tipped him over the edge so cut out ALL feed except for hay and get your friend/instructor to work him and then put you on and she can explain how to deal with any problems. i wish you lots of luck and hope you can keep him

 

[NooNoo59]

i still think it could be food related, the grass is coming through and that may just have tipped him over the edge so cut out ALL feed except for hay and get your friend/instructor to work him and then put you on and she can explain how to deal with any problems. i wish you lots of luck and hope you can keep him

thanks!

 

[Lloyd45]

I think any horse, when they move home, find it very stressful. My horse is so laid back, he’ll go passed anything but when I first got him he was jumping 6”gates and when I tried to catch him he would double barrel me, he now follows me round like a dog. It takes time, take a couple of steps back, don't ride, do some groundwork, invest in a dually or pressure halter so he can’t pull you about

 

[milliepops]

I also think if it was the feed then it would have kicked in sooner. It could well be the grass, ours is coming through strongly now and my own welsh girl is feeling pretty outrageous as a result.

An earlier poster mentioned how they can be tricky on the discipline side, if you came down like a ton of bricks on mine then she'd tell you where to stick it, quiet and firm is the way with her, otherwise she turns into a hysterical thug.

As you seem to have a pro who gets on with him well, could they take him on a few outings after a little bit of boot camp (preferably at your yard so you can see what she does)? Might get you over a hump. As you like him I think it would be worth the investment.

Other than planned outings I would try and keep him at home if you can rather than send him away for schooling. He might now just be finding his feet after all the upheaval (hence why you're having trouble now rather than when you first got him) and so it's home and with familiar handlers that he needs to learn how to behave sensibly.

 

[Ddraig_wen]

Can I ask how he's bred? Some lines have a bit more fire than others and a few have patterns of when they have their teenage phases.
My welshies are in full twit mode at the moment, yesterday saw them galloping off across the field bucking and farting because I had my had on in the rain lol. A couple I ride are being right pillocks too.

 

[starfish8]

I would also ditch the saracens balancer, sent mine bananas! Not from day 1 either, the behaviour got incrementally worse so wasn't as noticeably feed related. Taking her off it definitely made a difference though.

I personally would stick at it with him - but get as much professional help as you can along the way. Maybe send him somewhere for schooling livery to see if he improves, and then consider a move to a yard with a resident pro so you know you have support when you need it in future.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I also think if it was the feed then it would have kicked in sooner. It could well be the grass, ours is coming through strongly now and my own welsh girl is feeling pretty outrageous as a result.

.

Not necessarily, I have known one who even the sniff of a carrot top sent loopy immediately but the Welsh Dx that I talked about upthread didn't show any signs at first, in fact she seemed to settle, the longer she was with us, over the first year but then gradually her behaviour deteriorated until eventually we stopped feeding her any bucket feed (for a completely different reason) and then within a week she was back to being the sensible, affectionate biddable animal that we bought. We think she had had a headache which caused her behaviour to be erratic, she was also addicted to sugar and cereals, so her behaviour as she was coming in from the field for her next meal was wild. She also came up in heat lumps under her saddle at times.
TBH, we were dreadfully slow to add everything together and work out what the problem was, so I do try to impress on anyone with a behaviour problem horse that the simplest thing to eliminate is a food reaction.

 

[Crazydancer]

Another vote for dropping the balancer.... Saracens tipped my lad (PB Welsh) over the edge, he felt 'angry', tried to bite me and started napping. This was in the feed supplied at the yard I was on. He was 22 at the time and I'd had him from a yearling, so I know there was nothing else in his regime that would have made such a change.

 

[milliepops]

Not necessarily, I have known one who even the sniff of a carrot top sent loopy immediately but the Welsh Dx that I talked about upthread didn't show any signs at first, in fact she seemed to settle, the longer she was with us, over the first year but then gradually her behaviour deteriorated until eventually we stopped feeding her any bucket feed (for a completely different reason) and then within a week she was back to being the sensible, affectionate biddable animal that we bought. We think she had had a headache which caused her behaviour to be erratic, she was also addicted to sugar and cereals, so her behaviour as she was coming in from the field for her next meal was wild. She also came up in heat lumps under her saddle at times.
TBH, we were dreadfully slow to add everything together and work out what the problem was, so I do try to impress on anyone with a behaviour problem horse that the simplest thing to eliminate is a food reaction.

well it's certainly an easy thing to try.
When mine have had sensitivities to food I've noticed a change quicker than over 4 months though, I have one that can't have meadow haylage and my welsh comes out in lumps with alfalfa, both exhibit changes over the course of weeks rather than months.
(incidentally her previous owner said she couldn't have carrots or apples as too much sugar sent her wild, but I feed her sugar lumps after work without an issue, In her case, it was all in her head!)

But common things are common - bolshy welsh ponies needing general good manners & management are probably some of the most common things in the horse world!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

well it's certainly an easy thing to try.
When mine have had sensitivities to food I've noticed a change quicker than over 4 months though, I have one that can't have meadow haylage and my welsh comes out in lumps with alfalfa, both exhibit changes over the course of weeks rather than months.

But common things are common - bolshy welsh ponies needing general good manners & management are probably some of the most common things in the horse world!

I had the Welsh Dx and a Section A driving pony at the same time, the pony had fabulous manners, although she was very opinionated. The 15.2 was a lovely mare whose problems increased over years. When the behaviour started, I just assumed that it was her age (bought as a rising 4 yr old) and some of it possibly was but we found out that it was actually mostly feed related. It's a long and complicated story but certainly the process of deterioration was gradual, in this instance.

 

[NooNoo59]

Can I ask how he's bred? Some lines have a bit more fire than others and a few have patterns of when they have their teenage phases.
My welshies are in full twit mode at the moment, yesterday saw them galloping off across the field bucking and farting because I had my had on in the rain lol. A couple I ride are being right pillocks too.

He is a rockbury. Grand sire was danaway tango also has some thorneyside and nebo

 

[MotherOfChickens]

he's rising 5, unless he's been out and about plenty in the past then what he was showing isn't bad manners, its a young horse in a new environment with someone that he doesn't know/trust yet. If he has been out and about plenty then it shows a lack of trust in you and a lack of basics-either because he knows you are already a bit nervous of him/you've not been together very long. Either get some help or sell on-being scared of your horse is no fun but also don't demonise him, he is still young.

 

[indie1282]

Cut all feed out and limit the grass. Work him plenty 7 days a week twice a day if you can. You dont need to ride him in to the ground but try and give him some routine and get his brain thinking.

 

[indie1282]

Just re-reading your op. Are you having problems with him at ho.e or just at the show? If its all the time then I stand by my earlier post but if it's just at the show then I would expect him to be stressed and a bit if a nob, he just needs more outings and experience.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

agreed (I didn't see your later post OP, apologies) that grass and also being a 5yo could be doing it. also teeth coming through can make them sharp. I once had a very quiet 4yo that turned into a very sharp 5yo when he started getting stronger-he was always good on the ground though apart from when someone fed him alfalfa.

 

[honetpot]

I think this time of year is always difficult, the days are getting longer, the grass is growing and they just generally feel well, and it not so hot they feel slugish. Then you have changing hormane levels on top. Easter PC and most ponies have a buck.
I am careful they do not get too fit. If you work them hard they get fitter and stronger, while you stay just about the same, so I take them for long boring hacks so we both come back tired, about three days in a row. Then leave them a couple of days.
I am very keen on personal space, but if they are bargey making sure that every time you handle them does not become a battle you can lose, so if you have to put a bridle on to come out of the stable, or put a yard brush in their face to make them back away from the door, so be it.
There is a chance that when it gets warmer and the spring grass has gone things will settlle down but if you are not confident I would turn away or sell unless you can get help.

 

[NooNoo59]

he's rising 5, unless he's been out and about plenty in the past then what he was showing isn't bad manners, its a young horse in a new environment with someone that he doesn't know/trust yet. If he has been out and about plenty then it shows a lack of trust in you and a lack of basics-either because he knows you are already a bit nervous of him/you've not been together very long. Either get some help or sell on-being scared of your horse is no fun but also don't demonise him, he is still young.

I don't think he has been out and about much.

 

[NooNoo59]

Thanks for all the input he is staying! Yes he is young yes is a Welsh d but he is pretty sane and great in traffic. So ground work long reining dually headcollar lots of trips out. Patience and boundaries. Think he is worth the effort!

 

[splashgirl45]

thats nice to hear, good luck with him

 

[be positive]

I don't think he has been out and about much.

If his last outing was to the sales then he may well have been very upset at the thought of going through that again, I am sure if you do more work, set him up to succeed next time you go somewhere it will be worthwhile, if he is good generally it is really worth putting in the time and effort required to keep him on side.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thanks for all the input he is staying! Yes he is young yes is a Welsh d but he is pretty sane and great in traffic. So ground work long reining dually headcollar lots of trips out. Patience and boundaries. Think he is worth the effort!

I'm glad you have decided to work with him. I'm sure he will be worth the effort