Nullarbor

Why do we have to blame anyone? ive not seen it and knowing clayton he will be a total mess ( plus everyone else) he has had him since he was four.
At the end of the day everyone can say what they want and some thinds probably were said at the wrong time. But it will not bring him back so there is no need to blame anyone.
 
and as i have actually ridden and schooled that horse i can tell you that you would have to try pretty hard to gallop him flat out anywhere, he always was quite lazy and this will be bourne out if you check his record and look at time penalties through his career.
 
Tbh i think it was the way MDM phrased it - attacking a top four star rider and accusing him of being directly responsible for the death of his horse - not smart thing to do on an open public forum especially when this has only JUST happened and both clayton and nullabor are hugely popular in the eventing circuit.
No one and i repeat NOONE should ever have to have a horse die beneath them - what a tragic thing to happen - he must be truly truly devastated and having interviewed clayton on two different occasions now i find him not only hugely knowledgable but down to earth and lovely.
Once again RIP Nullabor - that horse was one of a kind x
 
Were you there? If not then are you any more qualified to say it was an aneurism or a heart attack then MdM is to say it was rider error? As Boss said, none of us know what really happened yet, and probably won't for a few days but people are bound to speculate, that's human nature.
 
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No offence to Boss but i think lucretia is a better source for the news.

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Ooooh ouchie!!

Seeing as you dont know me from Adam I'm intrigued by your statement
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Fair enough, you go with what Lucretia comes up with. Any word from the top yet L?
 
dont agree with MDM comment but am not going to slate her for it, as she is more than entitled to it, just coz she hasnt riden a 4 star, doesnt mean she cant have an opinion!!!

to all involved with the awful tragic loss of a superb horse my thoughts are with you at this truely very sad time!!

RIP N
 
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No offence to Boss but i think lucretia is a better source for the news.

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Boss's source is about as accurate as they get.

However, this whole thing is not about who knows who, who has ridden at what level blah blah blah, it is about the very sad loss of a talented horse. Poor boy
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Sorry, but why SHOULDN'T she have phrased it the way she should? I don't understand the mentality of some people on here
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So you knew the horse Lu, does that mean that MDM can't comment??? It's all a load of BULL if you ask me. And all that cr@p about "not saying it on an open forum" really pi55e5 me off, get a grip.

MDM, for what it's worth, you wrote what YOU perceived happened, DO NOT apologise, sh1t happens.
 
Boss no i dont know you from adam i know you have connections with the fredericks
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however L has worked for them and knows them very well that is why i made that statement. It dont matter wot she comes up with he has died nothing can be done to bring him back it could be a broken neck, heart attack, bad riding who knows.
 
How absolutely tragic, my thoughts go out to the Fredericks. I keep hoping that the latest horrific piece of news will be the last but something terrible seems to be happening every weekend at the moment.
 
But why the hell do people feel it is at all suitable to say anything like MDM said?????? Clayton is one of the worlds top riders and he has lost his top mount - that is tragic and it is nobody in the worlds right including my own to speculate on whether it was or was not his fault!!!
God some people dont have shock me on here.
 
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No offence to Boss but i think lucretia is a better source for the news.

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Boss's source is about as accurate as they get.

However, this whole thing is not about who knows who, who has ridden at what level blah blah blah, it is about the very sad loss of a talented horse. Poor boy
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Quite.
 
So it was ok for people to slate AT but not CF? How odd.

I didn't see it and have no opinion on what caused it, but if I had the energy I'd search through all those posts about AT and see how many of you who slated AT are now saying that no-one who hasn't ridden at that level should criticise/have an opinion had an opinion about AT. Hmmm.

As for Clayton, he is a thoroughly nice bloke who I have had the pleasure of briefly chatting to a couple of times and my heart goes out to him as that horse was simply fantastic.
 
Just playing devil's advocate, you were one of the loudest to condemn Amy Tryon for her behaviour with Le Samurai.

I'm not saying the two incidents are similar, however it could be argued that both horses were killed through the mistakes of a rider, and as I recall you were happy to speculate and criticise her in that situation.
 
Agreed. I wish someone would post a list of riders we are and aren't allowed to criticise, or a list of users on here who are entitled to an opinion. It would save a lot of time
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Just playing devil's advocate, you were one of the loudest to condemn Amy Tryon for her behaviour with Le Samurai.

I'm not saying the two incidents are similar, however it could be argued that both horses were killed through the mistakes of a rider, and as I recall you were happy to speculate and criticise her in that situation.

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I was about to say the same thing
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Just playing devil's advocate, you were one of the loudest to condemn Amy Tryon for her behaviour with Le Samurai.

I'm not saying the two incidents are similar, however it could be argued that both horses were killed through the mistakes of a rider, and as I recall you were happy to speculate on that situation.

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Exactly!

Anyone is entitled not only to have an opinion but also to voice it.

The argument that someone is not entitled to criticise another because they have not ridden at the other persons level is ridiculous - if you have eyes and a brain, you can make a judgement!

There should of course be an acknowledgment during that judgement making that the opinion is not based on experience, but not an apology for that fact.

MdM can say what she likes, she watched the incident and felt that in her opinion the rider was to blame. She wasn't stating fact, she was stating her opinion and no-one on this forum should think that they have the right to tell others that they are not allowed to have an opinion.
 
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Agreed. I wish someone would post a list of riders we are and aren't allowed to criticise, or a list of users on here who are entitled to an opinion. It would save a lot of time
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Wouldn't it just? So it is ok to condemn OT for riding too fast or pushing his horses too hard and saying slightly ill-thought through things to journalists, it is not ok to comment about this incident. It is ok to condemn AT. I have no right to an opinion at all because I don't ride very well or at any great level. I think that is a good start.....
 
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But why the hell do people feel it is at all suitable to say anything like MDM said?????? Clayton is one of the worlds top riders and he has lost his top mount - that is tragic and it is nobody in the worlds right including my own to speculate on whether it was or was not his fault!!!
God some people dont have shock me on here.

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Substitute CF for Amy T....
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Agreed. I wish someone would post a list of riders we are and aren't allowed to criticise, or a list of users on here who are entitled to an opinion. It would save a lot of time
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General rule of thumb, if you have worked for them/hacked past their yard/once met them at a comp./are their second cousin's Uncle Bob's foster daughter's au pair then the rider cannot be criticised. Anyone else is fair game
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AT was my first thought too. Im sorry but this smacks of the same argument we had last year with the US contingent.

Lets wait and see the footage/hear the responses of the officials before we all wade in to defend or decry.

MDM might not have put her post tactfully but that doesnt make it wrong.
 
for those tat are interested, i havent eard from team fred tonight and am not expecting to, they must be devastated. and sunflower, i wasnt there as you point out but i know the horse and i know clayton and he knew before he started the cross that he wouldnt be the fastest so even if in the lead he wouldnt have been ragging it. Also Ben is his number one choice for Hong Kong so he didnt need to win. MDM balntantly said it was bad riding and therefore claytons fault. well that is indefensible if you haent seen the incident. it may well turn out to be true and no dubt will tirn up on you tube so we can all see, but the loking unbalanced and leg twitching statements are all classic signs of some sort of heart failure. Comparing this to AT is rubbish. This debate started because of MDMsunfortunate phrasing for which she should apologise IMO even if that is her opinion (to which she is indeed entitled) because none of us knows yet and when the connections have suffered such a loss it was a horrid thing to say without any evidence.
Boss has very good sources, as i do but thanks anyway Dingle!
 
Ok people how the hell are they comparable? Go on tell me.

AT - Kicked on a lame horse that broke into trot twice and was clearly hopping about on 3legs, over the final jump AND pushed for a finish and then walked off without a care for the horse - horse was humanely euthanised.

CF - Possibly rode around a corner too fast OR horse had a heartattack - horse fell and broke its neck.

Hmm yeh i can SO see the similarities in that. God sake. Get a grip.

feel free to air your views. Seriously go ahead. God I'm starting to realise why i left this place. Full of up themselves santimonious *insert word here*.

And btw look back - i have never once even commented on whether MDM is a good rider or not - that is damn well irrelevent. What I am saying is it is not in good taste to criticise clayton during these tragic circumstances when nobody even damn well knows what happens AND when his connections are on here and clearly upset.

does anybody have any kind of sense on here? Questionable. I'm leaving this hoax of a discussion now.

RIP nullabor.
 
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Ok people how the hell are they comparable? Go on tell me.

AT - Kicked on a lame horse that broke into trot twice and was clearly hopping about on 3legs, over the final jump AND pushed for a finish and then walked off without a care for the horse - horse was humanely euthanised.

CF - Possibly rode around a corner too fast OR horse had a heartattack - horse fell and broke its neck.

Hmm yeh i can SO see the similarities in that. God sake. Get a grip.

feel free to air your views. Seriously go ahead. God I'm starting to realise why i left this place. Full of up themselves santimonious *insert word here*.

And btw look back - i have never once even commented on whether MDM is a good rider or not - that is damn well irrelevent. What I am saying is it is not in good taste to criticise clayton during these tragic circumstances when nobody even damn well knows what happens AND when his connections are on here and clearly upset.

does anybody have any kind of sense on here? Questionable. I'm leaving this hoax of a discussion now.

RIP nullabor.

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The whole point is, in your opinion Amy Tyron killed her horse, and in MdM's opinion Clayton's riding contributed/caused Nullarbor's death.

Your opinion is not fact, it is something you believe; others would have argued that it was in bad taste to criticse AT.
 
Gloster_Image, you are missing the point.

People arent comparing the incidents- theyre comparing your reaction to the two incidents (and a few other people's reactions)

With AT it was fine for everyone- be they a somebody or a nobody, to criticise and express a very strong opinion. Now it's someone different and a bit closer to home, people arent allowed to express a similarly strong opinion?
 
Umm, one huge difference surely is that in AT's case it went on for about half a minute or more, of deliberate riding on, on an obviously lame (well, to anyone watching anyway!) horse - not a split second's error.
i didn't see Clayton's fall, but i've had the same thing happen to me, went too fast round a corner on the flat, horse slipped (on loose sandy ground in my case) and fell over... luckily she just slid along on her side. i still kick myself to this day for what happened, it was a moment's bad judgement, a misjudgement of pace.
i can't see the parallel personally between this case and AT's.
i do think that everyone's entitled to an opinion though, and slating someone for voicing their opinion is unfair imho.
 
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