Operation: Learn To Ride

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
25,580
I agree with others who say move on from the trainer who is draining your confidence. I like a fairly tough and direct trainer but they have to be able to be constructive and give 'homework'.

Re: the rushing problem, I read an article recently that talked about the difference in half-halt for dressage vs. jumping but I can't find it for the life of me! I thought it might have been George Morris but I can only find a few words in articles featuring him, so maybe it was WFP or Christopher Burton. The premise was that the dressage half-halt uses the seat / thighs but a half-halt when jumping can't, so it has to rely on body weight and often you need to train from the rein first and sensitise to the body weight. Sorry I can't find the article :(
it's a long time since i had anything that jumped to any level but this makes sense to me. I don't half halt on the flat by gripping but by "stopping" my seat, but i couldn't do that in 2 point or a light seat, its more about bringing your whole self back a bit (and yeah, using the rein when necessary).

i agree there's probably way too much different information coming in at once here. if the RS horses make you feel like you can ride, and the training there makes sense, can you take lottie there? it feels like you need to get a basis of sound understanding and competence between you before having nice trips out with big names or amazing facilities. trying to do it all at once seems to be making it all a lot harder.
 

Roxylola

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 March 2016
Messages
4,239
Oh that;s interesting. It would make sense that different discpline and saddle needs different approaches. And maybe I did look all over the place trying that in the wrong place. Incidentally it was not on the approach a fence but on the flat between fences but I can still see why the saddle might not lend itself tho that aid really. Does there ever get to a point where you can just feel what to do/not to do. I am so literal. If I am told 'squeeze the thigh to slow down' I just will. I won't think 'that won't work here' or sense wrong place/wrong time. Though I guess if I spent more time on it I would begin to realise she is not responsing well to it?

Thanks!
Um, yes, and no. You're the type that will always want to analyse things so while you're unconscious competence will grow I think you'll forever be picking the why apart. Riding different horses will help build your tool kit, its then finding the confidence to experiment with those tools
Have you considered taking lottie to ingestre for a lesson or two there? Rob I know is super practical and good at making riders understand what's working and why, hes also not overly picky- if its working but looks a bit rough he's not too fussy about that.
Fwiw, and you probably know - the trainer in question does sometimes have nick from meadow productions with her to do you a training and best bits video. I've had a couple that have been fab. If you stick with her it might be worth asking if she has any dates planned with him, or even emailing him to ask if he could do anything.
 

Ambers Echo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2017
Messages
6,544
Thanks for all the feedback. Lottie was actually very well behaved and I have now made sense of what happened and why the feedback felt so discouraging. So I am feeling much more positive. Thanks LEC, J1ffy and Roxylola in particular for successfully managing to translate lesson instructions when you weren't even there! Very helpful (and impressive!)
 

Skib

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 March 2011
Messages
1,116
Location
London
The stopping with your seat can be done with your legs (reducing swing of barrel) when your seat is out of the saddle. That is what we were taught.
As an adult learner, I remember the exercises in both trot and canter. Done mainly out hacking.
Trot rising, trott sitting and trot in light seat, keeping the rhythm.
And canter in forward seat, then sitting without slowing the canter.
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
25,580
Yep, many roads to rome & all that ;) i never find it that helpful to think of closing my legs to slow a horse as it can easily push you off your seat if the horse is not that sensitive. it sounds like its making OP tend towards gripping instead of just giving an aid, that, or the horse requires too much input at this stage for an aid like that to NOT lead to rider clamping :p from OPs photos it appears that more softness is needed in the hips/knees so i am just thinking personally if that was me i would work towards using my upper body to aid and keep the seat and lower body a bit stiller and more draped/secure. though there are, obviously, many ways of reaching the same end.
 

Ambers Echo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2017
Messages
6,544
Interesting lesson at Ingestre. I was in a group and we all just got given a horse and told to 'improve it' riding in open order. We had to warm up w/t/c for a few minutes then decide what horse needed to work on and get on with it. Zero instruction beyond that. I found the lack of instructrion really disconcerting but the horse did improve loads in the session. Started stiff and behind the leg, ended supple, swinging and moving really nicely in a nice frame. Every so often we had to stop and explain what we were doing and why. So I was happy with that and I think having to think for myself is probably going to be very helpful though I did spend the first 20 minutes thinking HELP!
 

teapot

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 December 2005
Messages
31,171
Interesting lesson at Ingestre. I was in a group and we all just got given a horse and told to 'improve it' riding in open order. We had to warm up w/t/c for a few minutes then decide what horse needed to work on and get on with it. Zero instruction beyond that. I found the lack of instructrion really disconcerting but the horse did improve loads in the session. Started stiff and behind the leg, ended supple, swinging and moving really nicely in a nice frame. Every so often we had to stop and explain what we were doing and why. So I was happy with that and I think having to think for myself is probably going to be very helpful though I did spend the first 20 minutes thinking HELP!
Sounds beneficial!


I call it supervised schooling - it's a very good technique if you're used to coaches talking non stop, or not used to riding different horses and simply having to crack on with improving while testing your own feel/knowledge out.
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
25,580
I did a lot of that at the RS when doing my exams. I was riding lots of different horses independently in my job at the time so it came pretty naturally to just hop on and assess what was going on, thats what we do every day on our own horses after all. was it being watched in a lesson environment that made you feel disconcerted AE?
 

Ambers Echo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2017
Messages
6,544
I am not great at schooling on my own anyway. I tend to have lessons, then get given homework which I practice till the next lesson. Which is ridiculous because I train my horses in other ways and am very happy to think through gaps and to try and fill them. I’ve taught Lottie to be caught, to drop her head for the bridle, to stand still at the mounting block, to lead politely, to lunge off voice aids. And I’ve set up poles exercises keep her focused and listening instead of thinking ‘poles = stress and speed’. I am confident in working with a horse’s brain. I just don’t have the confidence to feel what to do ‘technically’ if that makes sense. But forced to answer questions on ‘how does he feel, which rein is better, what does he need’ I could do it so I need to have more faith in my own instincts I think.
 

scats

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 September 2007
Messages
7,055
Interesting lesson at Ingestre. I was in a group and we all just got given a horse and told to 'improve it' riding in open order. We had to warm up w/t/c for a few minutes then decide what horse needed to work on and get on with it. Zero instruction beyond that. I found the lack of instructrion really disconcerting but the horse did improve loads in the session. Started stiff and behind the leg, ended supple, swinging and moving really nicely in a nice frame. Every so often we had to stop and explain what we were doing and why. So I was happy with that and I think having to think for myself is probably going to be very helpful though I did spend the first 20 minutes thinking HELP!
That sounds like a really helpful session. Riding different horses without instruction is great because it helps you to develop feel. I think you need to trust your instincts more, because if you improved the horse without instruction, you have clearly felt and recognised what needed to be done, and then implemented it successfully.

I have always had natural feel on a horse, but I used to find it (and still do, at times) frustrating that sometimes what I felt underneath me wasn’t quite ‘right’, yet the instructor would be showering praise at me because the horse obviously looked good from the outsiders perspective… yet I would be aware that the horse was ever so slightly popping on one shoulder, or tilting it’s pelvis a minuscule amount. Enough that I felt there was a slight disconnect. Yet I would watch a video back and it all looked lovely, but what I felt under me wasn’t quite perfect and that would really bother me.
 

View

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 March 2014
Messages
2,610
Location
exiled Glaswegian
AE, for more advanced riding school clients, unless it's a really rider focussed issue that needs work, I tend to use supervised schooling a lot in lessons, and try to develop feel, technique and confidence this way. Lots of conversation around what are you feeling, so how do you think you could correct this, what else might you try.

Scats, I encourage my clients to give me this sort of feedback e.g "that looked better, but how did it feel" or "looking better, what would you want to improve or do better" - and I'd let you guide me as to whether to repeat the exercise, or try something else that might be more beneficial.

As soon as people can W, T, C, stop/start/steer independently, I start asking them about feel and getting them to think about what aids are actually asking the horse to do. The amount of talking I do depends on how the client learns/develops, and right from the start it's all about working with the combination that we have on that day.
 

Ambers Echo

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 October 2017
Messages
6,544
Another supervised schooling session - this time on a dressage schoolmaster with HUUUUUGE paces. Just when I think I am getting somewhere a horse comes along to say: "you think you're balanced, well sit to this." I felt ok in rising trot but changing the diaganol was just embarrassing, not to mention canter - trot transitions. :rolleyes: I did spend the lesson working more on me than on the horse, doing lots of transitions and changes of rein. It got better. A bit.

Lottie is quite a big moving horse too and getting bigger as she gets stronger. So all good practice.

Onwards!
 
Top